mjmarovi

BL motor is actually a shade stronger... Just a fyi. That's What I Was Thinking, The Nightshade Is Similar To The BL In Their Lineup. Don't Know How He Figured That It Was Similar To A BTL. (Just Like When Some People Thought The XCON Was A BTL Equivalent.) Nick, you are right, correct wording is higher motor force, or BL. I still stand by the NS being used more in similar applications as the BTL, not the BL. That is not just my own opinion. There was much discussion of this on the Sundown forums when the woofer was first released.

not my vid, and the build can be found on the ascendant audio forum. I just saw the vid on youtube and had to post it.

yeh if anything from what I've seen in the past, and what Jacob has told me, NS do better in smaller enclosures, and Fi woofers seem to do better in well almost the larger the better. I don't see where OP put anything about not having space, how much space do you have to work with willie?

looking at it from a simpler POV, not to disrupt the debate going, but amplifiers generally speaking, will not perform as well at lower ohm loads. the general result is a "dirtier" signal to the woofers. this in turn heats up the coils. amplifiers are less energy efficient, and have to work much harder at lower ohm loads. this stress is passed onto the woofers at well. of course, several guys over at sundown audio have had a lot of success running systems at 1/2 ohm. on a side note: in most cases, amplifiers are not going to produce much more power below 1 ohm. the power ineffiency isn't worth the minimal increase in power. you are better off running a system at 16-18 volts at 1 or 2 ohm then running a standard 14.4v system at .5 ohm. just trying to make a simple statement to the OP. now BKO and Nick can get back to their debate which is quite interesting i must add

what you need to do is figure out how big of a box you want, 2-2.5 cuft would be quite sensitive for that woofer and allow to play much louder per watt. you then design the port needed to tune it to your desired frequency. after that, you take whatever area your port takes up and add it to the 2.5 cuft. then you have your total box volume. if you have 3.7kw, what amps btw? not sure how you get 3.7kw. but that's about the right amount of power for 2 12" BTL's from fi. BTL's are very efficient woofers, and can take a beating for daily use. effiency means that these woofers can get very loud per watt compared to most others. so IMO, if you want something louder to bang the lows, then go ported with higher-end woofers. 5 cuft box after port and displacement for 2 12" BTL's tuned to ~32 hz for daily would be a great setup. if you mostly listen to rap when you are streetbeatin, then even a 34-35hz tune would gain you a little volume.

difference in soundwave movements, resulting in cancellation? same as two different sized drivers....that really makes sense, but running a 12 and a 18 next to each other doesn't damage one another either.

did you post this somewhere else? coulda sworn I replied to the same thread already. I agree with Derrick, lol of course he actually self-tested both, but the NS should be louder and more SPL oriented than the BL. the nightshade fits somewhere between the BTL and BL from fi, but really closer to the BTL. NS will handle way more than 1500 watts rms, its powerhandling is closer to that of the BTL, which is known for taking 3-4kw daily.

Perform similarly? Do you understand T/S parameters and ANY of their effects on a sub? While their goals are similar the buck stops there. They aren't really comparable drivers and surely will not have near identical output across the board. In general it is just as bad of an idea as it is to run a 15" and 18" BTL in the same car. I didn't say I recommended it. And I def. wouldn't use same amp, didn't realize OP was trying to do that. I understand it's not optimal, but what is so bad about running on a different amp in a seperate chamber? and yes, I have a very good understaning of T/S parameters. I understand the motors work very differently on both woofers, but I have yet to see that they perform so much differently. it's not like everyone who was running old BTL had to switch to the new one and just from that gained any sort of reasonable increase in Db's. and they are def. not anymore musical. Yes, as i thought I made clear, performance wouldn't be the same as if both woofers are the same, but if ran by seperate amps in seperate chambers, how will the this hurt the equipment? and what will be the tragic result? I'm really just trying to learn something here, I don't consider myself a "know it all" so teach me!

LOL hey nick, he's the one that asked....we are just giving him the info...experimenting is fun, I, personally, have never unintentionally blown or damaged a speaker. the reason why, is you have to know your system's limits. for example: if you go on a road trip, even a short one, remember you can't bang it full tilt the whole time on the highway, and make sure you turn it down, or off when you start to smell somethin

whoa whoa whoa....shared chamber? I mean really I don't see why it would matter, M5 I don't doubt you though, I know you know your stuff, but I have seen setups with with completely different woofers sharing same enclosure, even same amp, which I wouldn't really suggest doing, but it did work. and in this case, they really do perform quite closely, newer version just has a different approach at motor stability with the magnet. since it is a high-powered system and there is a lot of pressure in the enclosure, I would recommend seperate chambers for the woofers, and seperate amp for each, but I other than that should work just great.

the nightshade can handle 3kws rms. it's really made along similar lines with the BTL series from fi, not the BL. with the 2000d, excellent amp BTW, the nightshade or BTL would be a great match. IMO, if anything the Nightshade would make for a better daily driver, perhaps be alittle more musical than the BTL. the BTL IMO def. has the ability to handle more power and get louder. it's a tad more sensitive, and has a stronger motor. that's just how each is designed, BTL more SPL oriented, and Nightshade more musically designed for high power daily driving. of course, I've heard nightshades in systems built purely to get loud, and BTL's in systems for nothing but daily driving.... now that i've confused you, the good news there is no bad choice here, both companies build outstanding products.

how much airspace is the 28hz tuned box? i had a single 15" Q setup before 4.8cubes tuned to 28hz. absolutely crushed the lows, the lower the better. you aren't going to notice 26.5 from 28. now changing airspace/port dimensions, that can change a lot. all tuning does is target a somewhat broad freq. range of where you are mostly going to play your music. 28hz tuning basically allows you to play anything, since the average human ear only picks up from 20hz and above. if you wanna get crazy, and really notice a difference, try building a box closer to 8 cuft after port and displacement, and tune it 24-26 hz, if you want something different, IMO 28 is plenty low. and use 16 sq. in of port per cube, or 8x16= 128 sq. in. of port for a 8cuft box. that will allow you to move more air, and the larger box will make the sub more sensitive to the lower notes.

how much power do you plan putting on it? lol i remember when I build my box for an old system of mine, one 15" Q, 4.8cubes after displacement. while waiting on the 15 q to come in, i threw in a total mobile 12" i bought just as a temp. absolutely slammed in the enclosure even though box was way overkill for it. so the point is....the box should work great, especially if you want to bang the lows, larger box is great, just decreases power handling, lotta people put 2kws on a BL, would have to be very careful trying to do that with that enclosure. what amp do you plan on using with it?

sounds great, what are you tuning it to? i could figure it out, but not sure if those dimensions are outside dimensions, in which thickness matters, or if that's inside usable airspace dimensions. i'm assuming those are outside dimensions, and the 6.24cuft is after port and displacement. even then, only way i can see those dimensions working with that amount of port area, ending up with 6.24cuft after port and displacement, means you must be tuning way low. by my calculations, a port with 92 sq in of area, for example, square port 10x9.2" would have to be 44 in long to take up enough space in the box assuming 1" thick walls, to end you at the 6.24cuft. this would tune your box ~28hz. which if anything, for going on the smaller side of recommended airspace, I would try tuning closer to 33-34hz. now, if your box walls are 1.5" thick, than your design is probably pretty good. need some more info to really clarify though... box wall thinkness? (1" thick MDF, 3/4", two sheets of 3/4", what did you use?) are those dimensions from outside of box or inside? square port? round port? port dimensions? are you trying to hit as low as you can in space provided? what are goals? SPL? daily?

that's pretty impressive. i'd like to see some pics of the enclosure. can't really see how you have it all setup in this vid

not saying it isn't loud, i can tell from video it's loud as hell. don't know what it meters at, and I have seen some pretty loud ass vehicles. frankie rio, steve mick's van, tommy mckinnie, there are some pretty loud ass vehicles out there. Oh BTW: bumpin= moving hair slammin= 150+ loud ass system= 160+ (on music of course)

i'd love to see someone do a build where a single 10 is doing high 140's on 500 watts. i've seen a 10 burp a 152, but it was like 2500 watts, and a burp, not music. that is a good score. i was putting up similar number with two 15" Q's on a crunch 3000d. in a trunk of a 4 door sedan though, with a shotty alty.

this thread dying? thought this woofer was going to be out soon, any updates?

I would def. be stoked for a lanyard. How much of this stuff will be available for AA as well? or even a combo AA/Fi lanyard or t-shirt would be sick.

lol i've seen your builds, you like it loud. only way i see it working is using weaker Q's. I've had Scott beef up Q's to the max for me before, but never asked to tweak low, i'm sure it wouldn't be a problem. I would say go with the SSD since it is a little weaker, but really the Q is a better design for sealed. i'd go without bp power option, and see if the boys at Fi can do anything to lighten the mms. (moving mass of the woofer) that would help it perform better in the smaller enclosure. what happens, not saying you don't know this personally, this post is for all readers, but what happens in a smaller sealed enclosure is there is less air inside the box, or less volume. this is easier to pressurize from the woofer, therefore providing more suspension support to the woofer. the stronger the sub the larger the space needed to perform properly. that's why you look at the treo woofers and yes, you can use less space, but the bl, or force of the motor structure is less. does this make sense? the explanation sounds great in my head, but I hope no one is confused reading...

this really should be a commercial or on the intro page to fi's site, only thing is it's ascendant woofers. oh and yes, I know the system isn't the loudest out there but the way the t-shirt happened to stay there is badass

749 assuming woofer weighs 26.2 lbs

has to be the new big boy SPL. looking quite nice I might add...this is the woofer that we should see some working models of and possibly a pre-order by this fall correct? Think I wanna try something 4- 12's

oh yeh, steve meade's button is nothing but a bass control knob, most amps come with them or have the option for one. if you go to comps you will see a few people cranking on them!!

the best alternator out there to actually push the amperage it says it will is Ohio generator, plan $500 dollars for that. BL's are probably a good move, BTL's are quite extreme and you would be looking at a lot more money then. I don't think you are dreadfully off in your estimates. I do SQ builds as well, so to me I plan for 6-800 dollars for deadening, but it really all depends on the vehicle and how much you are trying to get rid of. I mean when I do a db race run my car is silent on the outside (funny to watch in the lanes doing 147's at 35hz and no rattles on the outside) but most don't deaden as much as I do. I would say plan on 300 for deadener, that's two rolls from raamaudio which is some of the best stuff out there. That will cover most of what you need. so basically here's the rundown....I want to help you as much as possible, and hopefully someday here this system always a thrill to have someone get interested into big systems I don't want you to get discouraged, then car audio competitions would never grow!! alternator- ~ 500 deadener- ~ 300 speakers- up to you, could get away with $400 dollars for enough speakers to get loud and clear, just depends on how much quality you want, but for 400 bucks you could bet a decent set of component speakers and then 2-3 sets of coax to back them up. amps for mids/highs- ~400 dollars, again, the quality you want plays a factor in price, for 400 you can get some decent amps that will make the speakers scream, but don't plan on entering the SQ lanes. crunch amps are great for cost efficiency deliver the power they say (within 10% factory standards) and inexpensive. sub amps- you are covered, I mean above posters are trying to downgrade the amps, because yes, they aren't sundown,fosgate, team cactus, or IA, or something like that, but hey you have them so try them out you can decide on your own whether or not to upgrade, hell upgrades are part of the fun down the road. batts- personally I only buy kinetiks, I along with many others agree they are hands down the best batt out there they deliver the quickest, largest amount of power with the smallest amount of resistance to your electrical system. You would need about 6000 batt amps to back that system, so that's three hc2000, at 290 a piece, that's $870 for batts, and on top of that I would recommend throwing another kinetik w/e you can fit up under the hood. so most likely another 290 which would be well worth it, could just throw a hc1400 up there though for 190. plan on about $500 for all the runs of 0 gauge and 0 gauge terminals to connect everything. another $150 for fuse blocks install materials, well bare essentials, (screws, mdf, glue) looking at $200 but I'm sure you don't want some big brown plain jane box in the back so plan on closer to $500 for materials for your box and amp-rack, etc. not sure what you have for a head unit, but ~200 dollar range could get you something pretty nice with ipod and all that jazz to run your system, ~400 could get you a decent dvd deck, although I would recommend a larger investment for a nice eclipse or alpine if you do it. basing most prices from onlinecarstereo.com since they seem to be most competitive, and I've spend like 10k with them myself so I know they are reliable. dont' think I missed anything, total cost I got you at, not counting the woofers because NO chit WE ALL KNOW WHAT BL 18'S COST CAUSE WE ALL KNOW WHERE FICARAUDIO.COM IS?!?! so after woofers... $4010. I don't think that's too bad at all, I'm sure there will be some misc., as every install is unique and an EQ wouldn't be a bad idea to help your amps get a stronger signal, like an audiocontrol or something that can get 6-8v signal to them. it really does help. but that's where you misc. 1k comes from to make your install unique. Hope this helps you, also would be glad to help with more detail and in depth discussion of the system feel free to PM or use this thread. Matt (mjmarovi) Team Sundown