Trent Hari

Haha Caught on fire!? yeah just a little overpowered The gain on the head unit can do just as much damage as the one on the amp. usually it is advisable not to mess with the sub boost on the head unit

Yeah but it sucks when i spell my whole setup out,with pics, and they can't even tell me the color of the sky lol. Just to be Philosophical - Maybe we don't know what we want , because we don't know what we can get with what we have. Or Maybe we don't know what were missing, because we have never heard a properly tuned SQ setup. . . . My brain just melted from all the meaning that was in those two sentences. ;P But why improve something that sounds perfect? You are being difficult because you think there is one solitary answer to any question. This is FAR from the truth. The trick is to use detail to describe the question to narrow down the answer. If you never narrow it down the answer you could get won't apply to you making it useless & a waste of money. Well i finally found out why i was not satisfied with my sound quality. The decks HPF was set to 100 hz but the subwoofer crossover was at 80 hz , but the speaker amp was set at 75 hz hpf. I did not know what i was missing, until i heard it sound correct. I couldn't even describe why i was not satisfied, I just knew something wasn't there that should have been. That was a kinda impossible situation for me and you i know. But on the plus side, i'm all good now We seem to have trouble communicating ///M5 I notice that member ///M5 uses the word 'YOU" alot. anyone who has gone through a psychology class can tell you that 'YOU" statements put the person being talked to in a defensive position, and they are less likely to see your point of view. "I" statements usually come across as more diplomatic and streamline communication. Heres a link to describe what i am talking about. http://www.humanpotentialcenter.org/Articles/IStatements.html I type YOU because unlike some other sites that are only interested in selling their wares, we want to actually help. Considering audio is subjective that means that can only be done with information from YOU. Get it? The communication problem is all you. And now get ready to be defensive. To me it sounds like your whole life has been a silver platter and you want to be spoon fed. I'll give you a hint. In audio if you won't think for yourself and try you'll never get where you want to go. Understood. I never claimed I didn't have my own set of problems. you have a valid point, as do i . it appears you are the one being defensive. - I don't even know you and you don't know me. lets not make a problem where there is none now, after your done ripping on me, start trying to help people, stay on-topic ., and explain why using a smd tuner is a dumb idea.

Alright I probably screwed the sound up when I ripped the CDs . I'll work on that- what settings do people 'screw up' when ripping? And how is music ripped 'correctly' I realize that my setup is not perfect compared to what you would call perfect. But I draw the line at 'good enough clarity for me' with what I have. I mention time alignment because it is something that would most likely be off , considering the speakers positions to where I sit, and I doubt it could hurt.

They can, and I believe they have some PA amps that can do that already. The problem is that in the car audio world no one would like them because it would never get loud enough. If the amps were able to eliminate distortion by sensing it and automatically reducing the input signal to get the output wave back to a true sine wave (unclipped) then the customers would get uber pissed because no matter how much they turned things up it would only ever get as loud as the controlling circuitry on the amp would allow. I can pretty much assure you that wouldn't be as loud as their previous amp and then they would bad mouth the new amp without understanding it was only doing it's job. Pretty much everyone listens to their music driven right up to (and many times well into) audible distortion levels. Even more unrealized by most people is that when the dynamic peaks are at play the hardest it's distorting every time because they've already run the output level up to it's limit and anything above that becomes distortion. Lastly there's plenty of music out there that has distortion of different kinds recorded on purpose. Any controlling circuitry that could sense and eliminate distortion/clipping by throttling the levels in the amp would really just not go over as well as you think. Great post :-) Why would the power cut be so dramatic? Do most amps begin distorting before their circuitry is maxed out? On a side note, I am actually surprised my Alpine subwoofer lasted as long as it did. Now that i know more. I was in the mood for bass once so I maxed out the sub gain on the head unit and amplifier and turned it up until just below when the distortion was just becoming audible. I'm guessing when clipping becomes audible in a sub, its pretty severe.

Yes, possibly. i think something may be a little off though because the speakers do not distort, but they can actually make the doors vibrate now and they did not do that before. maybe that's normal though. maybe I'm not an audiophile because i can't find anything wrong with the sq now. (other than maybe time alignment)I think i am hooked on CD audio quality though. is there any way to get that clarity from regular usb music? its kinda a pain to switch cds all the time. a burned cd doesn't seem any better than usb to me. unless i'm full of crap and there's no noticeable difference. Are original CDs the best for sq? If my system is so good that the source distortion is worse than my equipment distortion, I think I'm doing pretty good

Sorry - no measurements yet I can tell you my Alpine Type- R and Type -S sounded very different (to me) after a week or so than when they were first put in - even when i took a used Type-S out and put a new one in, I could tell. when i first put them in, it seemed like it couldn't hit the low notes, after awhile, the lows definitely became more prominent (to me)* *Right before they blew lmfao Measurements are really the only thing that would support the claim that there was a significant audible change pre- and post break in. Subjective experience does not. As Q pointed out, you might have experienced a change, but the change was in your perception and not in the driver (at least not audibly). Understood. I just had to say it. I'm wondering what T/S parameters are. Also what are , Cms, Fs, and Q?

I think i sent you a PM, if you have not received it ill resend it. under my messages, it said the message was not read yet.- i sent it yesterday.

Speaking of shops, that shop i mentioned in another post awhile back that sells pioneer tried to tell me that a pioneer competition sub was better than my SA-12. And they told me that it was a crappy sub because it sounded distorted, never mind it was in a box that was a fraction of its recommended volume at a like 45 hz tuning. Then they demoed that pioneer sub in the store,that was in an optimal enclosure, and it was not as loud , and made the same da*m distortion as mine did when i turned it up (probably clipping).- They were blaming my sub for clipping distortion. haha They will bull crap me all day long to make me buy their sub. And they tried to tell me their pioneer amps were better than my JL. - I Know that's a lie. Add that on top of the fact they didn't even know what Sundown Audio was.

Yes, I realize rears are worthless from a pure sq perspective, but rears , to me , make it seem as though i'm on the concert stage, rather than just in front of it.. - i spent awhile (like 1/2 hour) with the fader going from back to front to determine that that's the way i like it. - again this is just personal preference. So - i sat in my truck for a while late last night and i was really listening to my system and I finally found out why i was not satisfied with my SQ- the HPF on my deck was at 100 hz, while the sub amp was crossed over at 80 HZ (i never messed with the decks crossover before) I was looking at my speaker amp and i couldn't figure out why it sounded off, because all of the crossovers were set at 75 hz HPF, When i took that 100hz hpf off on the deck, i heard notes that i have never heard before - i'm so happy with my setup now. When i'm rich and just want the best, ill probably switch, but I can honestly say i have never heard music in my life as detailed and balanced as what my truck can produce now. - i might mention i sat in the center seat so the speakers were all the same distance away I also discovered how awesomely detailed CD audio can be. I turned the volume all the way up and I could not hear even a tiny bit of distortion., and i heard every little thing. I see what people mean when they say ignorance can be bliss- i had no idea what i was missing (or perhaps am still missing)

lol i just had a crazy thought - a "clipping filter" lol - after all these years, why hasn't someone invented an amp that cuts power to safe levels when it detects clipping? - they already have "clipping lights" just a thought

- I'm beginning to come to that conclusion also. Does having better wiring, without a voltage drop help the amp produce more power before distorting or clipping? - I saw somewhere that amps don't generally put out their full output in vehicles because of the electrical limitations - is that true?

That same output at different impedance's is due to the type of amplifier you have, I think its called a regulated power supply. One more thing you should know about the sub-woofer brands they sell here (especially the one you bought) is they are generally very durable and some of them can handle more than rated power if set up correctly. I really would not worry about the Xcon you are getting, unless it is put in an awful setup with clipping at that power level , It should be fine Lol any weight that is saved will come right back with that beast of a sub apparently its 57 pounds alone looking at the shipping weight. I don't think it will cost any less to carry it around. but ultra light MDF wouldn't hurt unless the sub gets so much power your sub blows it apart. - one thing to remember the weight isn't the only thing that hurts fuel economy- the alternator does also. -the louder it is, the more fuel the car will use to make the electricity to power the subwoofer.

Possibly the subwoofer gain on the headunit was turned up? or maybe the subs were wired to the wrong ohm load?There's so many ways to blow a sub its not funny. - i wont argue with your opinion though- i happen to agree The Alpine Type R that I blew was the 5th gen - rated at 1000 rms... i'm not the first person to blow one on rated power, judging by the reviews. Don't feel bad about not knowing things- i had no idea how much im going to need to learn to be considered even competent around here.

Type R's suck man. I had 2 new ones 600w rms each in a ported box with an RE audio 2000w amp (gain past halfway) and they never blew. Switched to a real amp (1000/1) and they popped in 2days with the gain a notch above zero. switched in my rlp18 which played amazingly until a hot day came along (100 degrees) and I think the VC got damaged at that point but the sub was still playing. Tried contacting Mike at SoundSplinter with no luck. With my budget theres no way I was going to give some guy $450 for a used 13w7 thats most likely been abused, so I ended up coming here. I actually got a ton of crap for posting that lol I think what i meant to say was maybe JL amps actually put out what they say they are rated at (or more) and those people who are running "1500 watts rms" to their SA-12s are probably full of sh*t or using low-end amps because my amp is raping that thing. Don't worry , that xcon will most likely take a dump on that 13w7 in terms of pure output, and the support here is amazing from my experiences.

You keep thinking that - I have the warrenty replacement Alpine type R D4 ohm from the one I blew that i'm selling for $125 Plus shipping, that's never been opened, or used. I sure as hell won't hook one up to my amp again.

Seriously? SERIOUSLY? LOL sometimes I REALLY shouldn't type what's on my mind when i'm tired. -At least i mentioned clipping! On another note, i fail to see how saying "Seriously" twice is much more helpful than what i posted. Seriously, though. I wouldn't be surprised if Member rustydawwg blew his subs in much the same way i did- i wasn't satisfied with the output, so i cranked up the gains until i was, which was probably near clipping, if not actually clipping, the amplifier, or over driving the sub-woofer. Then a song with a lot of bass came along so i turned up the volume - making the problem even worse until the sub couldn't take it any longer, and either overheated,(my Alpine Type S) or bottomed out so hard it broke the voice coil (my Alpine Type R).

Sorry - no measurements yet I can tell you my Alpine Type- R and Type -S sounded very different (to me) after a week or so than when they were first put in - even when i took a used Type-S out and put a new one in, I could tell. when i first put them in, it seemed like it couldn't hit the low notes, after awhile, the lows definitely became more prominent (to me)* *Right before they blew lmfao

I guess i'm just trying to say that he comes across as an ass in a nice way.- nothing against that member, I have a good point - if he's giving advice to so many people its important to be as diplomatic as possible. And yes, i am working on my question asking skills. i fully admit that i have my own set of problems lol And a picture does allow you to see btw We need to move this conversation somewhere else or end it - were hijacking this thread- back to the topic of Single- sub 1500 watt SPL setups

Yeah but it sucks when i spell my whole setup out,with pics, and they can't even tell me the color of the sky lol. Just to be Philosophical - Maybe we don't know what we want , because we don't know what we can get with what we have. Or Maybe we don't know what were missing, because we have never heard a properly tuned SQ setup. . . . My brain just melted from all the meaning that was in those two sentences. ;P But why improve something that sounds perfect? You are being difficult because you think there is one solitary answer to any question. This is FAR from the truth. The trick is to use detail to describe the question to narrow down the answer. If you never narrow it down the answer you could get won't apply to you making it useless & a waste of money. Well i finally found out why i was not satisfied with my sound quality. The decks HPF was set to 100 hz but the subwoofer crossover was at 80 hz , but the speaker amp was set at 75 hz hpf. I did not know what i was missing, until i heard it sound correct. I couldn't even describe why i was not satisfied, I just knew something wasn't there that should have been. That was a kinda impossible situation for me and you i know. But on the plus side, i'm all good now We seem to have trouble communicating ///M5 I notice that member ///M5 uses the word 'YOU" alot. anyone who has gone through a psychology class can tell you that 'YOU" statements put the person being talked to in a defensive position, and they are less likely to see your point of view. "I" statements usually come across as more diplomatic and streamline communication. Heres a link to describe what i am talking about. http://www.humanpotentialcenter.org/Articles/IStatements.html

Yeah but it sucks when i spell my whole setup out,with pics, and they can't even tell me the color of the sky lol. Just to be Philosophical - Maybe we don't know what we want , because we don't know what we can get with what we have. Or Maybe we don't know what were missing, because we have never heard a properly tuned SQ setup. . . . My brain just melted from all the meaning that was in those two sentences. ;P Random thought - I only have a single 12 and it can actually affect my breathing, How do you people get such loud setups and not go deaf? I really don't know how Steve Meade can hear anything anymore. I thought anything over 160 dbs causes instant deafness. Anyway.. back to the topic of the OP's SPL setup.

Well the best common pioneer decks that i have seen in shops have really crappy feeling controls to them. that's why i went with the Kenwood to begin with. I like equipment that looks as good as it works. That and stores where i live don't stock awesome decks like the PRS-80 and 997. the reason i want to switch is because i want to get the maximum potential out of my speakers, and what i have now cannot do that without time alignment , as one speaker is 12 inches from my head, while another is 4-5 feet away. Also this may sound dumb, but i want the best possible deck that i can reasonably afford if i am going to switch.

I could get that Kdc-997 for about the same price as the pioneer. which one is better for sq (and also build quality)?the answer depends on the installs need for processinyI may not need all the processing right away, but I do not want to switch head units often. I perfer flexibility, rather than whats perfect for me right now - i may add- on or go more into sq in the future, so i would rather be over- prepared, than under prepared. Extra features never hurt me, however missing features can. If that's not enough info then that's fine. i have NO idea how much processing my system needs.- you know all the equipment i have. that's about it.'d probably take it to a shop to get it tuned after i get a new deck. so more audio controls and features is better., no one seems to be commenting on the pioneers build quality.- how is it?

I could get that Kdc-997 for about the same price as the pioneer. which one is better for sq (and also build quality)? I already have a higher - end Kenwood, if i make a switch, i want the improvement to be noticable. That clarion is an interesting pick, and it is also very reasonably priced compared to the Pioneer and Kenwood. its missing an HD tuner though. Ill look into that brand more. i was surprised by the features.

Alright. Thank you for advice. I'm sure ill have a million more questions when i go to build it.

(I have 30 hz subsonic filters on the rcas)Perfect I like the design Quinton. What is the volume on that box? If going larger would help a lot, you can fudge on the 7" dimension.- I have a back seat so I could probably get a 5 cube box back there, I just do more with my truck than listen to music., I would like to be able to remove the box reletively easily if I need to haul people:-) If you look at my profile, you can see all the details about my vehicle. Just out of curiosity, does more volume produce better frequency response or output? Also, I may be building this box myself, so simple is good when it comes to design :-)