Trent Hari

Okay i have to go to work- ill be back with the dimentions soon try a 12*16*30 box and see if that would work

Alright. Well i guess my other option is to go sealed. I have a shop at my house with a table saw (with tilt up to 45 degrees) and a band saw drill press, wood sander...etc. so tools aren't a problem. What i have now is 1 cube GROSS ported (tuned pretty high-has a pretty short port)so i'm sure even that box you described would be a significant improvement. If you think it would increase output significantly to have a ported enclosure, ill remeasure my truck and see if i could fudge on those dimensions a bit. - tell me how much larger on my dimensions i would need to go for a port to work. Otherwise, if it's not possible to get a port without being significantly larger, I guess i can look into a sealed enclosure. Would you think i would lose a significant amount of output by going to a sealed enclosure vs ported or would the output be comparable? I really can't have everything I want , so ill be willing to compromise a little to do it right. I really do not want to go to a smaller sub-woofer unless absolutely necessary.

LOL on the last sentence. The most difficult part of this whole deal is knowing what questions to ask, and how to ask them , to get a helpful response. Maybe what us Newbies should ask is "What would you do with my current setup to create the most output without changing amplifiers?" In the meantime, I guess ill start a gallery of subs i have blown on my profile

I created a thread under the SPL/SQ Fabrication topic about a design for my sub-woofer box.

Alright I'm looking for advice on a sub box design for an Sa-12 that will give as much SPL as possible - without sounding terribly peaky. I'm willing to compromise on Spl for a frequency curve that would be acceptable for normal music listening- hip hop, rock, and country. sub is on JX 1000/1 - if you have questions about my vehicle and setup - look on my profile first under "About Me" and then ask me if the info you want is not there. Member Quentin Jarrell said "I would build the enclosure 1.75 cubic feet net tuned to 32 hertz. This will give you a 3db ripple (boost) at 35 herts and give you a F3 (-3db) at 26 hertz. This will give you the sense of exaggerated bass output. You can go smaller down to 1.25 feet but keep tuning at 32hz and do not go over 1.75 feet as group delay would be higher than desirable. " So, taking that advice into account, I would appreciate a box design that would stay within my dimensions designed to these specifications- Dimensions that would be good for me - a wedge- style box - Material- 3/4" MDF Within "constrained by" these dimensions -Its a truck- box type design 7" depth top12" depth bottom16" tall30" longTuning and design -wise 1.75 cubes NET tuned to 32 hz -Of course if it can be made smaller (less volume) without a significant compromise in audio quality or output - that would be great - if not its okay it will fit.The port on the left side when looking at the sub would be great. I would like to trim down the length if it can be made smaller I would like help with a design that would meet these specifications. I may even attempt to build this box myself if it is feasible

Sexy Bitch - by Akon- I blew a sub on that song

Got it In my Subwoofer Break-in thread, Quentin Jarrell gave me some great ideas for volume and tuning with my SA-12. Should i create a separate thread about my subwoofer and subwoofer box under the SPL/SQ Fabrication topic? Yes I would. Alright, ill create a thread there soon Back to the topic of headunits, i listened to my system today and i have decided that fading to the fronts gives me good enough sq. I would like to know how the physical quality of the controls on the PRS-80 compare to the kenwood KDC- 896. i have used some mid -grade pioneer decks and the squeaky controls and plastic levers that feel like they are going to break was a turnoff for me compared to the solid Kenwood controls i am used to. Is the PRS- 80 like that or do the controls feel reasonably solid and quality?

I also have a JL Audio amp , and I am also having trouble with blowing sub-woofers that should not blow on my amp. ( I blew a Alpine type R and i have a SA-12 that im needing to baby along) Maybe you should look in the JL audio forums and see if JL amps have a bad reputation for being hard on sub-woofers that are not made by JL. ( I wouldn't be surprised) . You probably should check for amplifier clipping also. Congratulations on the Xcon by the way

Got it In my Subwoofer Break-in thread, Quentin Jarrell gave me some great ideas for volume and tuning with my SA-12. Should i create a separate thread about my subwoofer and subwoofer box under the SPL/SQ Fabrication topic?

What do you localize? STOP. Seriously. NEVER EVER type sound quality or SQ again.If you want the most output you can get you are trying to do the OPPOSITE of sound quality. I posted this before, please re-read the responses AND read the threads in my signature. As loud as possible will be a box designed with a large peak, a box designed for quality will be designed to have NO peak at all. Complete opposites. OH my word what i meant is something that maybe has a little peak but is not a one note wonder. I thought that was pretty clear. You seem to think its one or the other, i believe there is a middle ground.

All my front stage does that i don't like is that "localization" or i can hear where the music is coming from. otherwise I think it sounds great. Another possible problem if you look at my pics, is the tweeters are about 2 feet away from the mids. (not sure if that's bad or good) BTW I would like to keep this on the sub section, but what i really want from my sub setup is the most output i can get from 1000 watts,While still having good sound quality. It also has to be in a smaller box because i want some room in my cab. (1.5-1.75 cubes Net) I have no "Needs" in car audio, only "Wants".

I did explain. If you need to be spoon fed you should just go to a shop and waste money. The answer to the only front is very simple. That is how your music is recorded. If you want to buy all new CD's and songs that are recorded in surround sound and implement it you could. However your request is strange considering everyone else that wants accurately produced music is looking for 2chn staging. All that being said a correct install will GREATLY reduce the localization which can improve the feeling you claim to not like. Thank god! you finally answered my question. That's ALL i wanted. - thanks I also asked about how to improve the door so i get a "correct install" What does a "correct install" consist of ? I currently have the door sound deadened but the speaker can still make the exterior pannel vibrate slightly. I fully admit i am a slow learner - but i am trying.

You didn't describe anything. Again you used a term "staging" that if you understood would be fine. Instead of saying I want to improve my staging describe what that means to you. There is no generic solution, only specific ones to YOUR needs. Until we understand those, there is NO WAY to help. This is too complicated for me . I guess I'll be fine with what I have now. There IS a way to help - answer my questions - and stop thinking so deep about how its going to help me in the long run. Telling me you can't help me doesn't help me or anyone reading these threads. If You can't help me, or answer my questions, then don't reply. - simple. Perhaps an analogy is in order. Customer: "I want to buy a car, mine isn't roomy enough what should I do?" Sales person: "What do you mean by roomy? Customer: "That doesn't help me, answer my question." It is exactly the same as what you are doing. We don't understand your "roomy" or "staging" in this case. Well i said that it sounded like the sound was coming from just in front of me instead of all around me. i don't like that. Is this effect unavoidable or would time alignment help? If you think i don't understand a term- explain it so i know. When i'm helping someone learn to do something, i don't just say "you don't know how to do this" - I explain to them how to do it

You didn't describe anything. Again you used a term "staging" that if you understood would be fine. Instead of saying I want to improve my staging describe what that means to you. There is no generic solution, only specific ones to YOUR needs. Until we understand those, there is NO WAY to help. This is too complicated for me . I guess I'll be fine with what I have now. There IS a way to help - answer my questions - and stop thinking so deep about how its going to help me in the long run. Telling me you can't help me doesn't help me or anyone reading these threads. If You can't help me, or answer my questions, then don't reply. - simple.

I think i did describe what i want to improve (the staging issue) and i would still like those questions answered. About the money - I just meant i want what all of us want- the most "bang for my buck" so to speak.

Sounds good! That sounds like what I want Could I see a design? I'm not sure on port length and all the little design tricks to creating a sub box or maybe recommend a free or low-cost program that helps with calculations and box dimensions although you guys would probably cringe at the design i come up with. What would it cost for you guys to build that "optimal sub box" ?- I just saw that you are a vendor- Quentin Jarrell I can get a 1.3 cubic foot prefab for about 60 bucks that's tuned to 36 hz (Bassworx TP 12) or is that not even close for what would work? the only reason i ask is the difference in price might be pretty dramatic.

Yes I would like SPL but nothing crazy I'll sacrifice a little volume for good SQ I may even install a different sub at some time in the future. (SSA icon or death row) if a box only works for one sub don't worry about it,.

Got it . any advice on that enclosure I mentioned? Dimensions that would be good for me - a wedge- style box - let me know what it would take if i HAVE to go bigger- Material- 3/4" MDF 7" depth top 12" depth bottom 16" tall 30" long Ported if possible - tuned to optimal frequency for SA-12 - I'm not sure maybe 30 hz

Well the rears are staying in, even if i unhook them lol they were a pain in the A** to install. Alright are the Type R's good speakers for really loud volume and power handling? or Is there REALLY good 6.5 or 6.75" speakers that could handle 200 rms and sound considerably better than type Rs? I have heard almost nothing but good about type R speakers except maybe a little weak in midbass. It kinda sucks because if you look at my setup the Mids are way down by my feet, so it is apparent that the sound is coming from in front of me. Maybe the tuning will help though. If i won't get very good sq with my install currently please tell me so i don't waste time and money trying to get SQ that isn't possible. Again, not world-class SQ just above average to excellent sq What methods could i utilize to make the door more rigid or better for the mids? I think ill start saving for the PRS-80. It seems like it will be the most effective. BTW I'm going to college and working all the time now so money and time are tight. I bought this truck and had all the stereo equipment and also paid to have it professionally installed - ALL of it. I'm only 19 and I pay all my bills so I am trying to get the most out of every dollar i already spent or will spend. One more thing - Alton - you have great and informative posts. I really enjoy reading them, they are down to earth , and seek to instruct, and obviously required some effort to create. - Thanks

I'm not sure who would be building the box. probably a local audio shop. I do have some serious size constraints though I do like to have a usable portion of my back seat. Dimensions that would be good for me - a wedge- style box - let me know what it would take if i HAVE to go bigger- Material- 3/4" MDF 8" depth top 12" depth bottom 16" tall 30" long Ported if possible - tuned to optimal frequency for SA-12 - I'm not sure maybe 30 hz I created one in autodesk inventor but I don't know how to upload it.

Okay all I need to do then is fade it to the front when I want Sq and then when I want volume I just center the fader. Sounds simple. If I do the time adjustment with the fader to the front could I still get great SQ even with less than optimal placement?

" You very well may be expecting more from the SA than it can possibly give." Yes that is probably it. that is why i was asking about replacing it with two lower-power subs for more output. No one seems to be commenting on my box. that thing is awful. maybe some advice on that subject would help. would a larger box tuned correctly create more output? I am not 100% sure on what clipping sounds like, but people that DO know what it sounds like say its not clipping. ("professional installers" lol)

Alright I'm using Dynamat Xtreme in the doors and around the speakers and Hushmat in the rear. I'm pleased with the volume and clarity that i'm getting. In all honesty, my system is probably "good enough" but i caught the audio bug so i'm always looking for improvement Im leaving the rears because double the cone area at double the rms should be louder and i really don't complain about the clarity. I'm really interested in that time alignment. would it likely help the sound in my situation? or is it a gimmick?

So your saying take my Pioneer TSD's, cut the tweeter wire, and re install them? :/ . btw The door speakers you see in the photo is only a mid, the tweet is the black circle by the handle. btw I faded all the music to the fronts to test the concept of only front speakers, and lost about 40% of my musics volume and impact. I'm so confused as to how 2 speakers can sound better than 4 properly set up. I'm about ready to give up on SQ, everyone seems to think my setup is terribly broken, but it sounds great . After we get around the concept of rear speakers, in what way could i make my system sound balanced and loud with that "handicap"? 2 speakers will never be louder than 4 and i'm not about to rip my doors apart trying to fit 2 speakers into one door, so i just replaced the stock speakers with new top-line speakers. Would time-adjustment on a prs-80 help create a "surround sound " effect or am i dreaming and should scrap my truck now? Just kidding i guess i'm a little disappointed on the bashing of my perfectly good system, i have a lot of time and money in it. I'm not looking to win a national championship, i'm just looking for great sound. "Surround sound effect" is NOT the point of DTA. DTA is used to time the sound waves from each individual speaker to your ears so that the interaction of the sound waves happens as its intended in the recording. Basically it makes the speakers play as though they're the same DISTANCE away from you on each side. The difference in distance to your ears from one speaker to the other jacks with the stage and imaging. The point behind running just front speakers and front/rears together along with the real concept of SQ is just outside your realm of experience, and that's just fine. Most of the people in the hobby consider SQ to simply mean it's clear with little or no distortion at high volume levels but unfortunately its FAR more complicated than that. I agree with Sean that something is probably not setup right in your current installation if running the fader to the front speakers has that much of an impact on how it sounds. I would also like to point out that simply screwing the new speakers into the factory locations is not properly installing them either. At a MINIMUM the installation should include a regiment of sound deadening and a solid baffle to mount the speaker to instead of the flimsy plastic the factory speaker is in. Something seldom done by anyone and most definitely rarely done by most shops UNLESS specifically asked for by the customer in which they will pay at least double the price to have it done. Please don't be offended or discouraged by the diagnosis, suggestions and recommendations offered up by everyone. There is such a great deal to learn about the HOW, WHY and WHAT of car audio that it simply overwhelms most people, including me, when trying to take it all in at one time. Experience installing, listening and doing it all over again several times over with the guidance of others who have already learned is the only way to learn what really works and the right from the wrong. Even then we'll never know/learn it all. Thanks for the clarification by the way I cannot run the same power to the front speakers as i have running to all 4 speakers in my truck. i would rapidly blow the two Type R components speakers on 400 watts rms whatever the deal is (They're only rated at 110 rms) I'm sure i could go up to 250 rms max but that would still be pushing it. By the way, I always thought that more cone area generally means more volume at the same rms. When i faded the speakers to the front, i also lost about 50% of my output because it was only getting 200 watts instead of 400. (I didn't bridge the amp) (I do have about 14 square feet of sound deadening in my truck) about 3- 4 square feet in each door and 1 square foot on each rear "quarter panel" and 4 square feet on the floor.. The speakers are bolted to the sheet metal. Thanks for understanding im not looking for perfect sq if it involves extensive interior modifications. i'm just trying to do my best while keeping my truck looking stock. That time alignment sounds like a good idea. would i see a benefit from it? i feel like it would help because one speaker is right next to my head while another is 4-5 feet away.

Yeah My box sucks. That's what the person at the store said. There's not enough air volume for the sub to work properly apparently. If you noticed, i said increased SPL OR SQ, not both at the same time. I wasn't sure what a larger box would create for my setup. What do you think about me getting multiple smaller subs for more audio volume? Yes i do know what SPL and SQ mean- I don't use terms that I don't have a clue about and if I do I ask for a definition. My cap has a volt meter on it, i know i'm still getting a hell of a lot of voltage drop at the cap (down to 13 volts sometimes) , maybe because i only have one run of 4 gauge to the battery? (The volt meter on the dash doesn't fluctuate much though) I just don't want to start drilling holes trying to get another battery in my truck, that's why i have a cap, it was the only thing that would fit under that seat. Also i'm powering both amps off of that cap, would it me smarter to just run the PDX-5 directly to the battery? (I'm looking for a more conservative setup, not one where i have 4 batteries and a wall of subs in my truck)