^^^^^ Dang Jake That goes to show you how much I pay attention.  Now that I have read through this, its blowing my mind that the 4500 is as small as it is. Just a tad over 2 feet and that much power, Oh and close to a foot wide  Daily amp, everyone is going to love you after this.  It really is nice work, but I think I was alittle preoccupied with the 3500D.