Impious

The "true" definition as "sound quality" would best be described as: an accurate reproduction of the source material in every respect. If one's goal were "true" sound quality, then their goal for their system would be to reproduce all aspects of the source material as accurately as possible. What most people actually mean when they say "sound quality" is not accurate reproduction of the source material but rather their subjective personal preference for what constitutes good sound. They want a system that sounds good to them, even if it isn't completely accurate to the original source (the easiest example would be those who enjoy exaggerated subbass). That doesn't make their goal wrong.....certainly the goal of any system should be, first and foremost, to achieve maximum enjoyment for the primary listener. But they do use the wrong word to describe what it is they are looking to achieve with their system. They are mistating their goals. Sound quality, and what someone perceives as good sound based on their personal subjective preference, are not synonymous and interchangeable ideas....but unfortunately that's how they're used. Not necessarily. There are certainly valid reasons to use a ported enclosure in a system designed primarily for accurate reproduction of the source material.....another large misconception is that ported enclosures are only for those who don't care about "sound quality". But it would depend on your reasons for wanting to use a ported enclosure. Although, rather an go into more details about why, I think you'd be better off to not to assign a label to your system and just go for what you like regardless of what term might be used to describe that. Too many factors at play to say one way or the other. It will more than likely sound different, subjectively whether it's a good or bad difference is going to depend on the listener and the overall goals for the system.

I run my Shiva-X infinite baffle. Those Eclipse subs are good subs. I had a quartet of 88120DVC's about a decade ago. They are TC Sounds TC7 based subwoofers. The Shiva-X2 has more Xmax, lower inductance, higher rated power handling, and more than likely a more linear motor. It also has a slightly higher Qts and it's Fs is a little more than a half octave lower than the 88120DVC, which means the Shiva-X will have much better low frequency extension/low frequency output than the 88120's in sealed enclosures, and it's higher Xmax means it has the potential for more overall output. On the flip side, the Shiva's Vas is larger and is going to need a larger volume sealed enclosure to reach a given Qtc than the Eclipse. The Eclipse would really be more at home in a ported enclosure. In ported enclosures of similar size the Shiva would have probably have better low frequency extension although if placed in an Eclipse-sized ported enclosure the response would potentially be a little more peaky and it's transient response probably a little worse than the Eclipse. And, again, the Shiva would need a larger sized enclosure to reach equivalent alignments.

Unless you end up having to buy a 2nd set of speakers because the non-warrantied speakers have something go wrong that would have been covered under warranty. Because if that happens, then the warrantied speakers are $50 cheaper

Different purposes. My goal is to reduce the the resonances of the enclosure (the kickpanel). The goal of applying it to the basket of the driver (I'm assuming that's what you're referring to?) is usually to reduce the basket's resonances, which can color the sound if severe enough (although shouldn't be a problem on my drivers) Won't be for a while Need to keep it to run tweeters if/when I decide to go active.

Just for starters, how do you intend on predicting and subsequently measuring T/S parameters with these hybrid, cobbled together subs?

Thanks No, it's not a Cutlass. It's a '96 LSS.....basically the Oldsmobile equivalent of a Bonneville. Rest of the system; Headunit: Alpine W200 (I'd like to switch to something more conservative but my kids think it's "cool" I have a DVD player w/ video screen in my dash) Processor: JBL MS-8 Amplifiers: (3) Blaupunkt Velocity VA2200 and (1) Blaupunkt Velocity VA2100 Subwoofer: Exodus Audio Shiva-X I have one VA2200 bridged to each channel on the front stage for an available 600w x 2 up front, and the 3rd VA2200 is running the sub. The VA2100 isn't currently being used. LOL.....yeah, I have a feeling that's probably the way I'm going to go. But it never hurts to dream!

If you have no other processing than the DC's should be a no-brainer.

I would use the Zapco DC's for the enhanced processing capabilities. Unless you aren't planning on using the DC's processing......in which case I'd use which ever has the most power.

What exactly are you trying to do?

I had a sample tile of SDS CLD laying around that Don had sent me a long time ago that I hadn't figured out a use for yet. So I decided what the heck, I'll throw it in the kickpanels! I originally hadn't planned on putting the SDS in the kicks as I actually forgot I had that tile laying around....it was a last minute addition. I cut the tile into quarters and laid it on the larger areas to hopefully help dampen some resonances. Kicks getting a little SDS'ification: After that I proceeded on to the time honored SQ tradition of piling on some non-hardening modeling clay (NHMC). The idea being to add mass to the structure to shift and reduce the resonances. How well does it work? I really have no idea! How do you like that for an answer? Seriously though, I've not seen any quantitative data on this method, and I don't have the equipment to conduct such a test. But a cursory investigation of the kicks pre- and post-NHMC revels that the kickpanels are significantly heavier after adding the NHMC (which is good, knowing that I need a 4x increase in mass to lower Fs one octave....the heavier the better), and with the 'ole knock test the kickpanel with NMHC sounds much less resonant and "hollow" than the kickpanel without NHMC. So, subjectively it appears it should help some. I've used it before but didn't really spend any time trying to compare with and without differences. And for $10 it isn't that expensive. I have something like 2lbs of clay per kick, which doesn't sound like a lot but really the difference is weight is extremely noticeable. Plus, it adds all kinds of pretty colors! I didn't add much to the backside of the kickpanel because clearance is tight, and the form is cylindrical which will be stronger and less prone to resonance than the large flat areas. Oh, and since I didn't mention it before I also chamfered the rear of the mounting ring for the midbass since the .75" MDF is approximately the same depth as the side openings in the midbass' basket (which is the only escape path for air on these midbass) to help improve airflow. And that's where they sit Before I put the speakers in I'll also fill each kick w/ polyfill. Other than that, it's just waiting for the weekend and some daylight so I can get them installed!

Thanks No. It's ugly. haha i'm sure its not thaaat bad My driver's door handle is a different color than the car (broke the original handle), my windshield has a crack running it's width (not worth the $375+tax to fix), and my clear coat and/or paint has flaked or wore off of about 25% of the car. It's ugly. But it runs pretty good and gets me from point A to point B, and actually the vehicle works out pretty well for car audio.......so it's a keeper until it gives up the ghost I'm not too particular about looks and I drive 25K+ miles/year, so as long as it fits my audio equipment......the rest doesn't really matter. I haven't decided. If I can get them sanded down pretty smooth I'd like to paint them. But that really depends on how much patience I have at the time. I may go the easy way out and just carpet them. LOL @ your picture Aaron. Uploading some pictures now. Will have a minor update in a few minutes.

Any recommendations? I've got an Alpine DVA-9860 & H701 I'd sell ya

Thanks No. It's ugly.

I think you may underestimate the differences in your hearing sensitivity at various frequencies. 110db @ 1khz is a lot different than 110db @ 50hz. Your hear is much more sensitive to sounds in the midrange than it is to subbass, so you will experience more "loudness" in the midrange with less SPL compared to subbass. It will only take a true HLCD a watt or two to reach 110db in the midrange. I doubt you could stand to listen to a consistent 120db in the midrange for any appreciable period of time, which for a 105db sensitivity horn would only take around 30w to achieve. You would probably reach your threshold of pain from the output of the horns before you would reach it from the output of your subs. The Sundown would be more than sufficient.

The drivers are likely 8ohm.....so a 125w @ 4ohm amp would only put about 60w to the horns at full tilt. Still way more than you'll need, but no reason not to use the amp otherwise. It will work fine. Just for reference, I had 50wpc @ 8ohm on my CD2's, the gain turned all the way down and still had to set the level on the processor to -12 (the lowest it would go without completely muting that channel) in order to keep the output in check......just to give you an idea of how little power you need to use with a true HLCD. Really at normal listening levels, you'll use less than 1w of power. At full balls to the wall....horns are capable of enough output to literally deafen you while still being within their rated thermal power handling (which is why I've never understood why HLCD haven't caught on with the SPL crowd, instead of those stupid bullet tweeters). "Big" is subjective. There are a lot of different versions of the CD2's (mylar diaphragm, titanium diaphragm, Neo version ,etc) so differences will be relative. But the CD2 can play lower, probably has a little better performance thru the midrange and may have a little more top end extension depending on the specific driver used. 1200hz, steep slope (24db/oct).

Yes, just the midrange were wired out of phase. Sounded pretty terrible with them in phase....LOL Not as much progress as I'd hoped, but I'll try to get a couple more pictures today.

Thanks for the props Should have them ready to install tonight, although I probably won't have time to actually install them until Wed.....maybe later in the week since it's freakin' dark outside when I get home from work now Both domes were out of phase........to keep them in phase. 2nd order filters, standard crossover theory says this should be the case.....and my ears agreed

Almost there Got them trimmed down and the mounting holes opened up and sanded down. I haven't started working on finishing off the appearance yet.....that's a next spring goal. Right now my aim is just to get them in the vehicle and playing before winter. Supposed to be 60* tomorrow, hopefully it will stay light and warm enough I can get them finished off and installed this week. Still need to add some treatments to the interior of the kickpanel, drill mounting holes, run speaker wire and then wire everything up. So I've got a few more hours of work before they start singing.......

That's the best I got......

Just make sure you are looking into the CD1eV3 and not the CD1eV2 (or lower). The difference is the CD1eV3 uses an actual compression driver, the previous versions had used a cheap piezo driver. Beyond that, I really don't know a whole lot about the new CD1eV3's as they are newer and not a lot of info is on the website about them. Rumor has it they are just a minor step below the previous CD1Pro's, which if true would make them fairly decent horns. The minibodies usually can't be crossed quite as low as the full size equivalents, but I don't think the CD1eV3's were meant to be crossed below 1200hz regardless, which is typically the area the minibodies are crossed over at anyways (the higher level full bodies are usually pretty good down to 800hz or so). As for power......you won't need that much. There's a difference between power handling, and what your ears can handle I don't know the efficiency of the CD1eV3's, but if they are comparable to the older CD1Pro's then their sensitivity would be in the neighborhood of 105db. If you put a true 75w to a 105db sensitive HLCD, the output would theoretically be ~124db. This doesn't sound like a lot when you're listening to 150db+ of subbass.....but the ear is much more sensitive at the frequency range HLCD's play. 124db would be enough to deafen you, literally. That said; there is nothing wrong with using an amplifier rated at 125w.....but don't expect to need to use anywhere close to all of that power. I've had Illusion Audio CH-1 and Image Dynamics CD2Neo's in my car. If you look around used, you can normally find the CD2's (with various diaphragms) for pretty fair prices.

LOL......you are worried about HLCD's not sounding good, but had yourself talked into a set of bullet tweeters? They mount under the dash for a couple of reasons......first, mounting them "on axis" would rip your head off. Second, they use the lower portion of the dash as sort of an extension of the horn itself.....the sound sort of "rolls" up the dash. Third....they just flat out would be difficult to mount anywhere else I've had two different sets of horns in my car.

RIP

It's amazing how different the weather can be just 80 miles away. I'm glad it's you and not me! It's bloody cold here, but no white shit yet.

That's a pretty ass-backwards philosophy as it's infinitely easier to achieve good sound in a house than a car. You're half-assing the easier of the two. The best solution is probably to just unplug the damn subwoofer and stop worrying about it. You would be better served with actual stereo sound without subbass than to have only the right channel playing but with subbass.

WHAT?? are you kidding me? lol the sub is THE thing that will get hurt by clipping. when you clip, the sub actually moves less and has a bit of a pause at each peak. so there is less air being forced through the voice coil and it overheats. just look at a sign wave, that wave is exactly what a speaker is doing. if there is a flat part, the speaker is holding at that point. The potential for damage is caused by the increased power being delivered to the driver by the amplifier, not because the subwoofer "stops" moving at the peaks. With a 30hz signal, the driver is still moving back and forth 30 times per second. Even if the driver "holds" at the peak of the signal, the heat dissipation would increase by about 1% (the average speaker wastes about 99% of it's input power as heat to begin with), then it would travel back in the opposite direction where it would be cooled again, then hold where it's heat dissipation increases by 1%, then it would travel back in the opposite direction and be cooled it. It would do this 30 times per second. That's still a significant amount of cooling going on and very minimal additional heat dissipation, to the point where it's inconsequential. The problem is power, not signal shape. And I believe his point is that clipping doesn't damage speakers, excessive power as a result of clipping is what becomes damaging. If the clipped signal isn't clipped severely enough to overdrive the speaker, or the average power level of the clipped signal is within the thermal and mechanical limits of the driver.......then nothing is going to be damaged.