Impious

If you are restricting yourself to dual 6.5" mids, and given your desire for high output, I think the Exodus Anarchy's would be worth a look. They are pretty easy to find used and while I don't think Exodus is selling them anymore someone else has resurrected them.Any reason you wouldn't want to go with a single 8 per side?

Do they have one that is written in English? Nope, it only comes in Nerd at the moment.

Probably this one: http://www.quarter-wave.com/TLs/TL_Anatomy.pdf

No, not the paper 95honda was referring to.

Most of the t-lines you see on car audio forums aren't truly t-lines and most of those people also have no idea why they would even want a t-line compared to a more standard enclosure. So the short answer is yes, most people in this hobby do it wrong.

The goal of every super sub builder is to eclipse the current king, the Funky Pup. None may get there, but we still keep trying. -Dan Wiggins Damn, that quote is outdated enough now the newbs probably don't know who he is either.....LOL

By 4th order he meant a ported enclosure, not a 4th order bandpass

http://web.archive.org/web/20030416091951/http://nexxon.com/funkypup/funkypup.htm For the newbs

Unfortunately kids these days just don't understand.

Any updates to this, or any of your SQ drivers really?

Don't confuse speaker price with speaker performance. Low end in price and low end in performance are two completely different things. There is most definitely a point of diminishing returns, and there are most definitely less expensive speakers that outperform higher priced speakers.

First realize how little excursion matters over the entire bandwidth. It really only becomes a factor at the lower end of a driver's bandwidth. So for the majority of the midrange, treble and upper bandwidth of a midbass and subwoofer excursion is relatively minimal. You would thermal a driver before excursion really comes into play outside of the low end of the bandwidth for each driver, therefore the excursion related non-linearity doesn't really apply over a very wide spectrum. With regards to the thermal aspect, those dynamics are transient in nature and don't last long enough to really push the drivers into thermal issues. But if you, for example, have a driver that is driven to Xmax with 100w and you are listening at an average level of 10w with a source that has a 10db crest factor than the peaks would not push the driver past it's linear limits (100w) but a 50w amplifier would be asked to provide double the power. You can scale this example up or down depending on circumstances. If you are really rocking it out a little more at 20w average power and a source with 10db dynamics then the amp is asked to produce 200w. Or if you happen to be listening to more dynamic music. Are there circumstances where you might exceed Xmax? Maybe, over a VERY narrow bandwidth. Is that worth compressing the dynamics over a potentially wider bandwidth? That's up to the user to decide. Some say no. My opinion is really that power is so cheap why would you want it to be the limiting factor in your system? If you have a 75w and a 150w amp both in your budget, why not get the extra 3db of headroom for the system? I'd prefer power to be something I don't need to think about. Turn the knob and the power is there, let the drivers decide when it's too loud. Especially when you're pushing the system because that's when we are looking to get the best performance and most enjoyment out of it, and that's when you will need that extra headroom. I'm not saying everyone needs to run the power I had. The 600w per side I was using was admittedly overkill and I actually used nowhere near that much power. But I got the amps for $100 each so why the hell wouldn't I buy them. In terms of flexibility the possibilities were endless. I could do anything I wanted with those amps and never have to worry about power. Sure in home audio a lot of systems don't use much power....but at the same time they don't have the 70db noise floor to overcome, and they have the space for more efficient enclosures. If you can get by with an average power of 3w then that 30w amp provides 10db of headroom. In car audio I don't think that power is going to cut it for a lot of us. On the other hand there are also 500w monoblocks that guys in home audio use to power each tower.

Keep in mind when demo'ing any set of speakers; they are only going to sound as good as the install/processing. Biggest flaw in the "listening" processes is assuming that just because you heard something, you can speak definitively about their actual performance. The high dollar setups you heard might have sounded fantastic less because of the speakers and more because of the setup/tuning. On the flip side, the high priced or "cheaper" setups you heard that didn't sound good might have not sounded good because of the install/tuning and not because of the speakers. Certainly there are some flaws in a speaker design that can't be tuned out or short comings that can be tuned in, but considering the environment and challenges we face in a vehicle assuming you can drop big money on speakers to solve all of your problems is a bit naive. Matter of fact it would be a SIGNIFICANTLY better idea to spend less on speakers and purchase a processor than to spend it all on speakers. No matter how good the speakers are, when you put them in a shitty environment with no tuning they are not going to be performing to their full potential. It would not be unreasonable to assume that a less expensive speaker but well tuned and installed will sound significantly better than the more expensive speakers with no tuning. I doubt any of those high prices speakers objectively perform significantly better than raw DIY drivers that can be had for a fraction of the cost. Toss in sound processing with the raw drivers and they would smack the shit out of a high end comp set dropped in out of the box with no tuning. Plus the DIY route allows you to select the best drivers for your wants/needs rather than being stuck with what comes in the box.

Can you post pics?

There is a difference between having available headroom for dynamics and actually applying higher average power. In this example, if he were using a 1kw amp and setting it up in such a manor to utilize the majority of that power he wouldn't have much in the way of "headroom" since he would be using most of what the amp had to offer for the music. On the other hand, if he were using a 1kw amp but set the system in such a manor that the average power was similar to that of the 400w amp then the difference would be available as "headroom" for dynamics. I was under the assumption his question was in relation to the former rather than later. I guess if you haven't yet read the thread I wrote about amplifier headroom.

Word. Less power means there is less excursion so the driver will remain further within it's linear range, creating less distortion.

What is your budget for speakers?

In Fort Wayne there are 2 shops I can think of that are still open outside of big box like Best Buy and ABC Warehouse. Classic City carries basically nothing for car audio when I was in there last year and D&B has nothing that can be demo'd. So unless he wants to drive to Indy he isn't going to find much to listen to.

Good to see another local guy on here. Give more details of the setup. Are you running a passive component set ?

Connect the subwoofer to the amplifier. If the sub plays then it's in the circuit

All things equal that difference in power is only 3db under ideal conditions, probably much less than 3db after you factor in power compression. Realistically it's not a that large of an audible difference. Simple solution is to model both drivers with their intended power and enclosures and look at the differences in SPL and response. It won't be perfect but it will give you a general idea of the output differences and bandwidth those differences occur over. Any amount over "rated power" you supply to the sub won't be enough to make a significant enough audible difference to make it worth risking damaging the driver (especially since you will have voided your warranty). Over powering a sub for daily listening just isn't worth it.

A true SQ system has the dynamics necessary to accurately reproduce the source material. That means adequate dynamics to reproduce cannon shots/etc. One thing they don't have is an overbearing sub stage, which is where most people get confused into thinking the SQ stereo isn't loud. The other things they usually lack as Cableguy pointed out is a lack of rattles and buzzing, as well as lower than average distortion. Without those three indicators of when something is "loud", the stereo doesn't seem as "loud" to the ear. There's a common saying about a good SQ setup...you don't realize how loud it is until you go to say something to your passenger and you can't hear your own voice. The common indicators of "loudness" aren't there to trigger your brain into realizing just how loud it is. Clark's Grand National, which I believe is still the winningest car in history, could do something like 130db full range.....to the SPL crowd that doesn't sound impressive, but 130db in the midrange will deafen you.

Having the sound come from a single source is near impossible in any line of audio...car, home, etc. The closest thing is a coaxial or coincident design. But even with separate drivers and proper install/tuning you can create a cohesive soundstage, which is ultimately the goal. Everything is a trade-off....2way, 3way, coaxial/coincident, etc. you just have to know what those trade offs or compromises are and work with them or around them. That said, a small 4" midrange is going to be useless and a hinderence in the type of system you are looking to create. High efficiency/high output and small cone area are polar opposites. If you were going to go 3 way you would want a larger diameter midrange....6.5" or even 8". Normally people don't use these large of midrange drivers in a 3way design because thy want the midrange to cover a wider bandwidth. But since you are using horns this isn't much of a concern for you, but output potential most definitely will be. In the midrange output is still determined by displacement, but since excursion is minimal it's almost exclusively determined by cone area. But as with any other 3 way tuning will be more difficult and the system more expensive. So it's up to you to decide if you're willing to sacrifice your midbass for the simplicity of a 2 way design, to have the option of larger midbass drivers for the expense and complexity of a 3 way

Just don't strap them. Run them independently and gain match them with a DMM

No idea what the sub is, but those home made "direct connect" leads are pretty terrible.