Impious

That is alot of cheating lol... Here are the specs of the old Soundstream Lil Wonder (last page) The little wonder was not a cheater amp though, it was a marketing gimmick that was massively successful. I know. This thread make me think of it though. IIRC Soundstream did it in part to poke fun at the cheater amps that were around at the time. Not many cheater style amps around now since there's really not much point. Zuki is the only one to really come to mind, and he doesn't have much point behind doing it other than marketing.

That is alot of cheating lol... Here are the specs of the old Soundstream Lil Wonder (last page)

I wouldn't consider those cheater amps. Yes, they will probably output a little more power than rated, but not an audibly significant amount. The "cheater amps" were the amps that were, for example, rated 25w @ 4ohm that really output 1kw @ 4ohm.

Here's a picture of my old 15" boob cone XXX next to an Illusion Audio ND-12 (the original shallow mount driver). The XXX was taller than the ND-12 + a pop can

so old school us amps can produce more watts per channel than the rating shows .....is this correct What amplifier do you have?

Back in the day some SPL competition formats arranged competitors according to the rated wattage of their amplifier(s). So the manufacturer's would "rate" the amplifier at some ridiculously low wattage, much less than what the amplifier was actually able to produce, in order to (hopefully) give the competitors using their amplifiers an edge during the competition. These were referred to as "cheater amps".

Overheard in Best Buy car audio section today: #1: No, I'm going to get some huge speaker [makes huge circle with his arms], probably 2000 watts. Something like that [points to the low end 12" Polk sub in display] #2: Yeah, that'd probably like blow out your windows or something. #1: Probably, I'll probably just do fiberglass instead (I'm assuming he meant Plexiglas) #2: Yeah, you'll have to! Me: as I walk away

Apparently not his, atleast not anymore.

"The goal of every super sub builder is to eclipse the current king, the Funky Pup. No one may get there, but we keep trying....." - Dan Wiggins

You aren't going to hear any difference in output between wiring either 1.3ohm or 3ohm on that amplifier. Depending on how comfortable you are with your ability to control the volume, it would probably be a little better to wire them to 3ohm & be on the safe side with power. Not going to make a lick of audible difference.

What. It's spelled what. As Julian said, it depends on what enclosure you intend to use. If you are strictly using them in a sealed enclosure, the high Qts option might be necessary. If you plan to use them ported then don't purchase the High Qts option.

Duplicate thread. Closing this one, keeping the thread in the Fi section. In the future, please only start one thread per topic. http://www.soundsolu...ndard-or-h-qts/

Happy birthday Aaron !!

Why do you want to change? What are you trying to improve? What crossover points do you plan to use?

Not sure if this is a typo, but XBL2 is not a traditional underhung motor. It has a notch in the top plate and pole piece which creates two independent gaps through which the coil passes. It's not really underhung or overhung as the coil is shorter than the overall top plate thickness but taller than either of the gaps individually. I liked the look of the boob cone version a little better than those. Great drivers regardless.

To the ear, probably none. If it were a competition box where you were trying to gain every .1db then it may matter. But as long as the bubbles aren't large enough to cause a considerable amount of disturbances then don't worry about it. Why were you using fiberglass mat inside of the enclosure anyways?

While your comparison was generally useless for the conclusions you were trying to draw from it (that a 400w amp sounds like a 1kw amp), you're actually not very far off from the truth. Which is that it takes very dramatic increases in power to make any really significant differences in output. As you can figure out from the formula stephan posted earlier, if you double the power output increases by a maximum of 3db. So even if we assume zero power compression, the difference in output between 500w and 1kw would be audible but not substantially so. If we factor in some amount of power compression, the difference could be anywhere from still audible to not audible at all. So it's entirely possible to save money, buy a 500w amp instead of a 1kw and end up just as happy with minimal audible difference in output.

LOL....Exactly what I was thinking. Weren't they like $60 for a "6-pack" ? Aaron, I think you guys need to come out with an FPcon in honor of the Funky Pup. Would be a great addition to the SSA lineup I will put in a call to Krypton to see if they have any spider packs and surrounds left. There was rumors that before the Death Star was destroyed, that some special cones were jettisoned off into space for fear of the attack. Supposedly, Ray Liotta can get a hold of some nasty voice coils. That would leave only the unobtanium motor structure, last I saw, the Navi were pretty pissed when humans tried to take their rare metals. Just saying. LOL....that was extremely random and amazingly well organized for being spur of the moment.

LOL....Exactly what I was thinking. Weren't they like $60 for a "6-pack" ? Aaron, I think you guys need to come out with an FPcon in honor of the Funky Pup. Would be a great addition to the SSA lineup

This forum isn't for Want to Buy threads.

Won't help? I'm not really trying to fix anything. All I wanted to originally do is put a 12" woofer in this box. There was never a problem. There isn't a problem with port noise or anything else like. What they are trying to express is that the enclosure has as much of an effect on performance as the subwoofer itself. You can change subs, but you really do not have sufficient port area for a 12" driver of decent excursion. As such, the resulting performance is going to suffer to some degree. Which makes the entire endeavor a little self-defeating. If your goal is simply to "fit a 12" driver in this enclosure, regardless of performance" (which is essentially what you are saying) then it doesn't really matter much what you pick to put in there. If your goal isn't to improve any performance aspect, then stick with what you have. But if your goal is to improve various aspects of the performance, then it would be best to start by designing a new enclosure. You might not think the design of your enclosure has anything to do with this thread....but it does.

You can add SDS to that list That's because he's tried to fling his bullshit around here, and we didn't let that shit fly

log(1000/400)*10 = 3.9794dB However speakers aren't very efficient, and they have their limitations. To be a little more specific, that is the maximum theoretical difference. The actual difference in output will be less due to power compression, which means that the subwoofer (or any speaker) is not converting the same percentage of that additional power into acoustic output due to various reasons. I don't know the power handling limits of the RF sub or how it responds to that enclosure, but it's entirely possible that power compression would reduce the actual increase in output by 1db or more. As was mentioned, the amount of perceived difference depends on many different factors, including frequency. A ~4db difference in the bass would be noticeable but not dramatic. But that's before power compression, realistically the difference would be something less than ~4db. On top of that, you don't actually know how much power you were applying to the subwoofer. So it's all a moot point anyways.

You're asking an extremely vague question that would require an extremely long and detailed explanation. The short of it is that it sound is created by the movement of air. The more air you move, the louder the sound will be. With bass it's a little more difficult to fill a large listening space with sound than it is a smaller listening space, which means if you are in a large listening space (like your van) you generally need to move more air to have the same output as a smaller listening space (like a compact car). If you took a 12" subwoofer and put it in compact car & measured it's output and then put that 12" subwoofer in your van and measured the output again, the output when in the compact car would end up being louder. The amount of air a subwoofer can move is called it's displacement, and it's determined by the size of the cone and the amount of excursion the subwoofer is capable of. So a subwoofer with a larger diameter cone, like an 18", is going to move more air than a subwoofer with a smaller cone, which means more potential output (assuming excursion and listening space are equivalent). However, large diameter drivers generally require a larger enclosure volume than smaller speakers, so you need to have more room available for the enclosure with a larger diameter subwoofer. In your van you have the advantage of having enough airspace to allow you to properly fit a pair of large diameter subwoofers, which is good. On the down side, and you also have more listening space to deal with when trying to create bass. If your goal was to create loud bass, your best option would be to use large diameter subwoofers with decent amount of excursion to create more air movement inside your large listening space which will allow you the ability to create louder bass. That's Bass 101 in a nutshell. Obviously there is much more to it, but that's the very basics in layman's terms.

How much port area do you have? Looks on the smaller side in the pics.