altoncustomtech

to the forum! The 80's? The car audio world must look completely alien compared to what was going on and available to buy back in those days!

Happy Birthday Mark!

to the forum!

Keeping up with the sub stage is a little backward thinking. A simple component set just isn't enough to keep up with almost any substage. Too much of a difference in cone area and power for those little woofers to have any hope of actually keeping up with the subs. For a balanced sound you set the gains on everything then turn the subs down to blend with the highs. When you want more, as you obviously do, is when we get into the discussion that's been going on so far. @NCC - There's a good chance he's already got the HPF set for the components. He's simply pushing them to their limits trying to get more from them than they can deliver. He can raise the HPF or use the EQ to tone the bass back a bit. You're right, he's driving them past their limits and they'll soon get toasted if he doesn't watch it closely. Using the EQ to tone the bass down a hair is the ideal way to go IMO. It sounds like it's pretty close to giving full output with a little stress on the bass at that volume level. One could turn the bass back a tad on the EQ to save the component mids and tap the sub up a notch or two to cover the lost output. It's a trick I practiced a lot when I was installing for people. They'd want to get it done as cheap as possible and HU's back then didn't have much of any crossovers built in. The speakers were often factory and run off the HU regardless so getting much output was a balancing act. I'd leave the subs off, adjust the bass and treble, or whatever adjustments were available, until it sounded pretty good and clear at high volumes then bring the subs up to compensate for the lack of bass from the rest of the speakers.

Pretty much. When you're running passive the crossover included with the speakers does the job of separating the signals to the appropriate driver. The crossover capabilities of the 80PRS, CZ702 or any other active capable HU aren't required to do that job.

I think you misunderstood. The full ranges are on the Highs channels, with the HPF set to 250hz. The midbasses are on the mids channels, the HPF set to 63hz and the LPF set to 630hz the lowest it can go. I'm using the LPF on the amplifier to cross it down to the ~250hz the midbasses need to be at to blend properly with the full ranges. As Brendan mentioned it's not a bad compromise. The subwoofer is on the sub channel with the HPF set to 31.5hz (using it as SSF) and the LPF is set to 40hz. If you really want to use the SLS 8 for some serious midbass response you won't have much of a choice but to go with a full range for the highs. Trust me that they play everything they're designed to beautifully as long as you install them on axis. The only other option for using the SLS 8 is a 3 way setup like a 4" midrange and tweeter but you're DEFINITELY not ready for a 3 way active setup yet so you'll have to make a decision. Either try out the 3" full ranges and do the work it will take to mount them properly or slide back down to a 6.5" and tweeter active setup and maximize the installation to get the response you're looking for. With the SLS 8 and full range you cannot use the 80PRS as so many have pointed out now but the Clarion can do it with a little ingenuity but if you decided to do the 6.5" mid and tweeter the 80PRS will excel for you over the Clarion in that setup. No matter which you decide to use you'll have to do everything you can to make sure the installation is as close to perfect as you can get it. The SLS will not have good response and cause insane rattles if the door isn't deadened and braced properly. You'll never get anywhere near satisfactory midbass from a 6.5" either if the same isn't done for it. What have you done so far with your current installation to ensure the way its installed is giving it's best chance at the response you're looking for? If you've not at least fully deadened the location they're installed and used a custom baffle for mounting then you've not even begun to get all you can from the components you have now. I'm getting midbass I can feel in my chest and that moves pant legs from the 6.5" Bravox mids that are in my doors right now from doing just the custom baffle and about 50% of the sound deadening work that needs done. I'll have to do a great deal more when I go to install the SLS's though if am to expect better performance from them.

Using the SLS 8 with a tweeter is going to prove to be problematic. It can't play high enough to cross with a tweeter. The response falls to shit after 300hz and no tweeter will begin to touch that low, you wouldn't want it to. That's why the SLS 8 gets paired with a full range like the Founteks or used as a woofer in a 3 way. The SLS is a great choice but only if it's used correctly. The same goes for any speaker. If you really want to use the SLS for great midbass response you'll have to pair it with something other than a lone tweeter.

Oh definitely is the HU a cheaper and easier solution when starting on a first active setup. I would also toss the recommendation of the Clarion CZ702 out there as well. It's slightly more capable as dad as the amount of tuning that can be done on the crossovers and the frequencies therein and of the EQ. The only real limitation is it's lower number of bands of EQ and the fact it's not separate for left and right. It's been said before that if someone could combine the best capabilities of both units it would be the ultimate active capable HU.

It does. When the driver plays the positive half of the waveform and moves outward (assuming standard polarity) it causes rarefaction (vacuum) and when it plays the negative half of the wave form it pressurizes the air behind it. The vibration you're seeing in your mind is simply due to the frequency. The pressurization and rarefaction are happening very quickly. Think of TV, with a frame rate of 24fps you can't tell it's one picture after another and not a continuous movement. If you slow down the frame rate you can begin to see each picture. If you played a 1hz sine wave the pressurization and rarefaction are much easier to notice. Also the amount of air the driver is pressurizing/depressurizing is directly associated to the size of the cone and the drivers XMAX. that's typically not a great volume of air compared to something that creates constant air moving pressure like a air nozzle on an air hose, or the depressurization from a vacuum. Frequency again, because the speed the air is trying to move is directly related to it, changes how the air and therefore the driver pushing it reacts through openings. That's why a port works in the first place. The air inside a given enclosure volume, and a given port size, can only be moved so fast because the air has mass (albeit very small). Change the volume of air in the enclosure or port, you change the mass, you change how fast or slow it can move, that changes it's resonant frequency and voila it tunes the enclosure. More or less.

Beautiful build going on here. Wish you were local, I'd love to check out those XCON's in your ride and go over some stuff to do with your front stage. I second the thought on the RF 3sixty, or the JBL MS8, or the JL Cleansweep. They're all good DSP's designed specifically for integrating a factory HU with aftermarket audio equipment. Of course they're all a little pricey, all the DSP's seem to be, but they can do WAY more for you than the LC6 was ever capable of doing.

You can't compare the volume position from one song to the next. Every song has it's own recording level and is rarely the same as another. Possibly if they were all recorded on the same album the tech at the board referenced them all to the same level as they were mastered but I wouldn't count on that either. Even if they were the same recording level every song has it's own range of dynamics which can make them sound like they're recorded at different levels. Best thing to do is just as you're practicing now, when you hear something getting stressed just turn it back down a notch or two.

Happy Birthday!!

I don't think stuffing the box with polyfil, or anything else regarding the current setup will be useful. You're simply asking more than it's capable of giving. Even subs that could handle more power or are better suited to a sealed alignment would not net enough gain to make the cost worthwhile. Changing the enclosure out for a ported should yield a noticeable difference in output but you're looking at a larger enclosure that you may not have the room for or may not be willing to give the room up for. The only other way you could possibly get louder is with larger or more subs but again you're going to run into having to have more space available for the subs. Either way you've got a tough decision. For my own curiosity, when you say "custom mustang vert box" are you saying that it's a custom box for a convertible Mustang? If so, then that's the other major problem to overcome. Convertibles are notoriously difficult to get loud due to the way the trunk and cabin are separated for the convertible mechanics and the rag top eating up so much output in itself.

1.4 ohms dc resistance per coil would be D2 coil configured subs. If you indeed have all the coils and the two subs wired in parallel you only have a .5 ohm nominal load on your amp and that would be the reason for your problems. If they were D1 coil subs that would be a .25 ohm nominal load and I doubt the amp would even begin to run with it. Specs from Fi's website. DUAL 1 | DUAL 2 Fs: 30.1 Hz | 30.1 Hz Re: 0.7 Ohms/coil | 1.4 Ohms/coil You need to be sure they're wired for a 2 ohm nominal load, wired like below.

Don't keep them separated and tune to two difference frequencies, it won't help any at all, seriously. 12" for a 4" diameter port and 32hz tuning is about right. However, have you calculated the subwoofer and port displacements into your figures?

To each his own on brands BUT the big point is that using just one brand for EVERYTHING just isn't the best idea. Every company has inherent strengths and weaknesses in the variety of products they sell and because of that there can be shortcomings in the overall performance when using everything from just one brand. When choosing individual drivers for building from scratch you should be picking them because they truly fit the application. For that matter, that should be the focal point when picking just about anything. There's nothing wrong with brand loyalty but it shouldn't rule the entire process.

Technically speaking it would be doable but why on earth can't you find a 4" driver to use? Parts Express, Madisound, and many other places sell bunches of great options for a 4" midrange for use in a 3 way setup.

Yep, two dual 1 ohm subs are what you need. Reference picture below.

Honestly 12 gauge will be just fine.

Doing some quick math shows me the enclosure is around 7.1 cu.ft. NET with a dismal port opening (only 42.5 sq.in. of port area). The port area isn't even equivalent to a pair of 6" round ports. However after subwoofer displacments the BL's would be running in around 6.7 cu.ft. with a port tuning in the 29hz area. So technically speaking, yes the enclosure should be alright to run the BL's in until you get another enclosure built for them. Remember though that when you increase the port area on the new enclosure that port length will have to be much longer as well to keep the tuning the same, or nearly the same. That means that a lot more internal volume is going to be used up by the port and the enclosure will have to get a bit larger to keep the volume where it needs to be.

So what do you suggest for speaker set up if not to go with a 8" and 3" drivers? What Sean was saying was that if you wanted to try the dedicated midbass and full range setup that the 80PRS wouldn't do what you need it to for processing. I was a little surprised to hear that myself at first but when I got to thinking about it the crossovers are limited to 1.25khz for the high pass of the highs (tweeter) and lowpass of the mid. The Clarion isn't quite as limited but the lowest it can cross for the mid same purpose is 630hz. I'm using the LP crossover on the amp powering the midbasses to get it down to the <300hz range they need to be at to cross with the full ranges properly. So technically speaking I suppose he's right the HU's themselves aren't ideal for the dedicated midbass/full range setup but the Clarion can do it as long as the amp for the midbasses has a LP crossover. The 80PRS is a great HU for going active with a mid and a tweeter though but that would be it's limit. Here's the frequencies both of the HU's can be set to in their crossovers. The Pioneer 80PRS The Clarion CZ702

LOL, following the rules agreed to when joining is all it takes but seriously most generally the only time anyone really gets upset about it is when one person makes post after post asking simple® questions that could easily be found with a quick search. No one will ever say anything if someone actual does some searching, a little research, and asks a question when they still can't find the answer they're looking for. It's easy enough to tell the difference between those kinds of questions too. Everyone here doesn't having a problem helping out but as many of us have done ourselves we all expect people to learn and grow on their own as well. Guidance, not hand holding, lol.

Boredom...

I think it's a great choice for a first active system and the price can't be beat either. Last time I checked one could be picked up at SonicElectronix for $150 with free shipping and installation gear. Yep, sound advice.

After reading through the manual for the 997 it's not got powerful enough crossovers for truly going active. The EQ, DTA, and basic crossover controls it has aren't bad at all but there's not enough capability in the crossovers.