///M5

You can always sacrifice frequency response for output, where you choose in the compromise is up to you. That being said, is there something about your current Xcon (besides output) you want to improve? Btw, there is no one or few T/S parameters you can look at and know it is right which is why no one answered at first.

Looks like you are covered. I read the title and thought you were looking for a 20" diameter aero, LOL.

Curious what you don't like about the drivers offered here for that application? Screams Xcon generically speaking. I don't like to be generic, but considering you are just wondering about drivers for that box it would work and they will all be similar in make up. .....glad you added the net....

This was just about to get to my initial point, but bs emotions got in the way of the thread First harmonic or sum of harmonics? Obviously should be based on THD. Amusingly I don't have to ask the question to know the answer. Either way, what a useless device. NO ONE needs it. :(

Dear Mr. M5, This tool measures DISTORTION. Yes it takes a lot of power to build a real time analyzer to measure distortion. That is what it does, that is why it works. On top of that I did it in 100% analog. This is not a toy, don't kid yourself or lead other people to think it is especially when you didn't know. Tony D'Amore D'Amore Engineering Great step. Obviously my next question is what are you using to calculate distortion (ie which harmonics etc) and at what level you consider it clipping. Glad you took the time to come here, thanks. I apologize for sounding like I inferred it was a clipping indicator. Of course even if it works I still don't see the value in knowing you are clipping for those that aren't chasing tenths on a meter. without being confrontational or anything, can i ask you this.......do you think its good advice for someone to just turn the gain knob up and hope for the best? I actually think your last statement is ass-backwards because if i was chasing numbers, i wouldnt care about distortion and a little clipping would get you more power. Dirty power that your system can handle for a burp, but still more power. For a regular system, to set your gains properly you should use an O scope. This product is designed to replace the O scope (for gain setting purposes). How about I make this simple with a question, can you hear the difference between 900w and 1000w? you are incredible.... if anyone wants any REAL info, i will have more as the product continues to improve, before we even release it. i will also, like i said, send a few out to some REAL installers, even REAL backyard installers who like to do things right.... for beta testing. Of course there is always info on my site. I would be glad to keep SSA posted but it seems like this place is hostile lately. If you guys want, i can though. All questions, even with doubts, can be answered as long as your not a dickface about it. Is that such a hard thing to do? Can't tell if that was a no or yes...

Sick of all the Sandy Labia's. Figured if I outlined why, they might get it. Funny since a ton of the people who are seriously frustrated by me come back and thank me for being direct and what they originally thought was mean later. Maybe this will shorten the process. And of course a ton of them are douches and are not helpable.

Is it personal? I may be a young gun in the car audio world and i obviously look up to him. He has turned into what started as a hobby into something much bigger. That is like a dream for most of us enthusiast isnt it? i mean why not make money off from something you absolutely love. Why do you care what I think? You are old enough to make your own opinions and don't like mine anyways. Just curiosity. we have had a past and it seems like all you do is be a dick to everyone. you talk about how other forums are garbage because of how people treat each other but your a hypocrite because you do just that on this forum. That's never been a reason why I've stated other forums are garbage, unless you are taking the liberty of extending the allowance of craptons of misinformation being acceptable. It will never be to me.

Dear Mr. M5, This tool measures DISTORTION. Yes it takes a lot of power to build a real time analyzer to measure distortion. That is what it does, that is why it works. On top of that I did it in 100% analog. This is not a toy, don't kid yourself or lead other people to think it is especially when you didn't know. Tony D'Amore D'Amore Engineering Great step. Obviously my next question is what are you using to calculate distortion (ie which harmonics etc) and at what level you consider it clipping. Glad you took the time to come here, thanks. I apologize for sounding like I inferred it was a clipping indicator. Of course even if it works I still don't see the value in knowing you are clipping for those that aren't chasing tenths on a meter. without being confrontational or anything, can i ask you this.......do you think its good advice for someone to just turn the gain knob up and hope for the best? I actually think your last statement is ass-backwards because if i was chasing numbers, i wouldnt care about distortion and a little clipping would get you more power. Dirty power that your system can handle for a burp, but still more power. For a regular system, to set your gains properly you should use an O scope. This product is designed to replace the O scope (for gain setting purposes). How about I make this simple with a question, can you hear the difference between 900w and 1000w?

Is it personal? I may be a young gun in the car audio world and i obviously look up to him. He has turned into what started as a hobby into something much bigger. That is like a dream for most of us enthusiast isnt it? i mean why not make money off from something you absolutely love. Why do you care what I think? You are old enough to make your own opinions and don't like mine anyways.

And no matter the product, I do despise it when people bring something to market that really isn't useful and then market it to people who don't know any better.

Amusingly that was pointed towards me and I didn't bash him. Just stated the obvious.

History. Why wouldn't you?

Dear Mr. M5, This tool measures DISTORTION. Yes it takes a lot of power to build a real time analyzer to measure distortion. That is what it does, that is why it works. On top of that I did it in 100% analog. This is not a toy, don't kid yourself or lead other people to think it is especially when you didn't know. Tony D'Amore D'Amore Engineering Great step. Obviously my next question is what are you using to calculate distortion (ie which harmonics etc) and at what level you consider it clipping. Glad you took the time to come here, thanks. I apologize for sounding like I inferred it was a clipping indicator. Of course even if it works I still don't see the value in knowing you are clipping for those that aren't chasing tenths on a meter.

LOL

Nope, never my goal and I am not making this personal. ANY article on distortion will work. Pick your own poison. Why should I have to do research for you on something I already know? Perhaps, dB's would make it sound better for him though so that's unusual. I used SM in one response based on the real purpose of the unit, its for him to make money. Not sure how you took that as emotional, hell there is no judgement intrinsically in that statement either. Implied sure, but that is pretty much everyone's goal who sells anything.

That's a step in the right direction. So what level of distortion do you consider clipping and how are you calculating distortion?

The worst days though are the ones where it isn't summer yet, but the snow is gone. Gray, dreary and shit. Give me snow and just BARELY below 32F until the day it turns 75 and I'd be in heaven. The whole 40F and no snow sucks.

LOL. Easy to solve. Ask SMD what algorithm they are using. If they can't or won't describe it, then its a lie. Again, not necessary anyways. The amount of misinformation that is spread on that forum is absurd. I'll give you another hint, no acoustic engineer would ever use a percentage but dB scale anyways....

That's why it is only usable on 1000hz and 60hz test tones. You say "we" have to research how clipping is the same as "clean" power, but there isn't any article that i have found where they did a good experiment which proves that clipping is not worse then nonclipped power.( i've only seen honda95 his experiment and you jumping on the same horse and saying it's correct, although Fi has made a few experiments themselves and they are a more relaible source, and they say it IS worse on a subwoofer) Not only by the heat it creates but also the wear on the spiders and added stress on the cone and triple joint assembly. Only theory, no practical tests(?) is what i have seen. (PLEASE show me a few links or articles. i would love to be wrong ) The "tool" is made to detect clipping, and that is what it does, get the most "clean" power out of a amp in a handy and simple device. It's not made to measure power or to see if the driver can handle the power, that is not it's job. You are saying tony d'amore isn't a good engineer? That the RF 30kw is a amp like all others? Either fancy algorithm and only one set frequency or really fancy algorithm. 60to 1kHz is a HUGE range. Even still they aren't doing it right. (even .25Hz can make a huge difference depending on how the are approximating their algorithm) You should re-read the thread. Scott himself came on and agreed with 95 and myself. Nick was not comparing the SAME power, but using more power in his clipped signal. On top of that I NEVER said to research clipping, just how power is defined. It makes it VERY simple. That tool was NOT meant to measure clipping, it can't. Not possible. How do you write an algorithm to look for a squared off wave and what are its limits? Clean power doesn't matter. The only thing that tool was meant to do was to make SM money. Has nothing to do with engineering, nor with the engineer that designed it. He did so based on SM market intelligence and not based on making a true tool. Stop reading into what is being said and instead take it at face value. The thing is a HUGE waste of money. Completely ridiculous. You're wrong. It's not a range between 60 and 1khz. It's NOLY 1khz OR 60hz, nothing inbetween or around it.( so 2 set frequencies) I don't know that much about writing algoritmes that complicated, but how do you make algoritmes for the "more advanced" tools to detect clipping? Because they work at all ranges.(almost all is what i mean.) I don't know SM nor you, nor tony, but i do know the RF amp has good technology in it nor do you know SM or what his plans are. I do believe he wants a tool for less "rich" people to detect clipping. Until it comes out and nobody has tested it i will stay with my opinion and you with yours since that is what they are. I didn't read the specs, not concerned, definitely won't work. Your opinion is based on emotion not science. I have worked with countless manufacturers on this exact measurement and know exactly what they use and how they determine it and know for a fact what it takes. This is definitely an approximation and a useless one at that. Keep drinking the kool aid if you like.

Still have at least 6" in my yard, Northern MN is getting dumped on right now, but the forecast that was supposed to put 5" here has just changed :(

Can't believe how viral that crap is

Try 4 pages of the same garbage here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1320240 Oh lord and kryptonnightdipshit is responding there. Perhaps that is why the OP is confused.

Goooood question. I haven't looked at drivers much, I wanted to figure out which route before I got caught up on drivers. That will depend on mounting locations. The full ranger pretty much HAS to be on axis. The higher up the better.

That's why it is only usable on 1000hz and 60hz test tones. You say "we" have to research how clipping is the same as "clean" power, but there isn't any article that i have found where they did a good experiment which proves that clipping is not worse then nonclipped power.( i've only seen honda95 his experiment and you jumping on the same horse and saying it's correct, although Fi has made a few experiments themselves and they are a more relaible source, and they say it IS worse on a subwoofer) Not only by the heat it creates but also the wear on the spiders and added stress on the cone and triple joint assembly. Only theory, no practical tests(?) is what i have seen. (PLEASE show me a few links or articles. i would love to be wrong ) The "tool" is made to detect clipping, and that is what it does, get the most "clean" power out of a amp in a handy and simple device. It's not made to measure power or to see if the driver can handle the power, that is not it's job. You are saying tony d'amore isn't a good engineer? That the RF 30kw is a amp like all others? Either fancy algorithm and only one set frequency or really fancy algorithm. 60to 1kHz is a HUGE range. Even still they aren't doing it right. (even .25Hz can make a huge difference depending on how the are approximating their algorithm) You should re-read the thread. Scott himself came on and agreed with 95 and myself. Nick was not comparing the SAME power, but using more power in his clipped signal. On top of that I NEVER said to research clipping, just how power is defined. It makes it VERY simple. That tool was NOT meant to measure clipping, it can't. Not possible. How do you write an algorithm to look for a squared off wave and what are its limits? Clean power doesn't matter. The only thing that tool was meant to do was to make SM money. Has nothing to do with engineering, nor with the engineer that designed it. He did so based on SM market intelligence and not based on making a true tool. Stop reading into what is being said and instead take it at face value. The thing is a HUGE waste of money. Completely ridiculous.

I have no link, no need for me to use the internet to study it. What I went to school for and do everyday. As for your "clean" power comment, I can tell you haven't researched power yet. Clipped power, clean power, it doesn't matter. That won't create an issue with the driver. Too much power will. This can be in the form of instantaneous (which will cause mechanical overexcursion) or average (which will cause thermal failure). Clipped or not it won't matter. Once you research how power is calculated you will understand the statement. I've got another question for you. Why bother with "maximizing" your gains? Do some thinking over what the difference in power that is required for you to hear it will be. *excludes chasing tenths on a meter of course, talking about normal users*