hdrox88

I have ruled out the HU and amp as the culprit for the irritant I am fighting. I hooked my ipad up to the amp with a RCA to 3.5mm cable. It wasn't as easy to hear since the mid was getting full range signal but it was still there. I swapped the zapco for a JL 300/4 and the annoying sound was there just the same. That leaves source material, speaker wire, and speakers, though I'm fairly confident speaker wire wouldn't cause such a problem. 12ga. ofc is a pretty standard wire.

They are in the doors, I mentioned in an earlier post that I had pods on hand.

Makes perfect sense. I was doing a little research on the mentioned driver and couldn't help but notice the drop in power handling and sensitivity. I know ratings vary from one manufacturer to the other, but it's enough of a difference to raise an eyebrow. I realize we newbies need to learn to walk before we can run, but I'd hate to take a step backward in output. My xcon 15 can already start to overpower everything else when I really let it loose. I also noticed one site had enclosure specs listed, would running IB in the door be ok for it? I'm don't think I'm ready for enclosures in the front end yet.

That makes sense, though would it not behave the same when switching to the passenger seat? Of course, I'm sure the steering wheel can have a pretty big impact on stuff like this? Parking brake pedal is close as well now that I think about it.I suppose this is where axis not only affects the line of sight response, but the reflective response as well?

From 200hz and up I can't really hear any difference from left to right mid in either seat. It is only when I try 125hz and 80hz tones that the left mid suddenly drops off. I was able to eq the difference out with about 3-4db of total adjustment as I mentioned in my last post. Sitting in the driver seat, if I listen to 125hz on the left mid and turn on the right, the volume jumps. If I start with the right mid and bring in the left, I don't really notice an increase in volume. I didn't notice there was a difference in mid bass response from left to right until I actually started listening to them independently. One thing I did notice yesterday, when at very low volume at 125hz(just enough to actually hear the tone) I also heard what was almost like a squeaky noise in the left mid. It was so faint I almost didn't hear it over the tone even at low volume. I though it was odd and maybe worth mentioning.

Is this the same if you change seats? Did you determine this listening to each independently? I did compare the left to right by listening to them independently. I did just try sitting in the passenger seat though and the response sounds fairly equal, left vs right. Sitting in the driver seat it is very obvious that once you get to 125hz or 80hz, response is several db less. I was using test tones to verify this. If I use the eq and +1 on the left and -2 or -3 on the right It gets them pretty close. Has this helped you determine what about them you want to make better? Remember you will trade off frequency response for output. I can guess what I think you want, but you telling us is better At this point, the irritation is my biggest complaint. Second place is the gnarly peak in response at around 800-1250hz or so. I am not sure if this is going hand in hand with the irritation though as that is where it is most noticeable, and maybe it is making the peak sound worse than it is. Third, I would say mid bass could be helped a little, though if the left mid was putting out like the right one then it may not even be an issue for me at all. As for the xover gap, mids are 1.6khz@12db and tweets are at 2.5khz@12db, it seems to be ok for the system as a whole. Again, the irritation may be impeding my judgement on this as well.

At the cost of sounding anxious, I feel like an end result is pretty close. I'm not sure of any other testing to be doing at this point, or when I should be shopping. I didn't want to be making any stabs in the dark this time around, so all the help thus far has been greatly appreciated.

That's what I thought, just wasn't concrete on the matter as far as what frequency axis really starts playing a role. I'm really hoping the drivers are the root of the irritation problem as they are needing replaced anyway now. Now that I think about it, that issue has been there since day one. Even before I bridged the mids on the 4ch.

I'd say the occasional coil scratch sound is fairly equal between the two drivers, as is the irritation I am trying to figure out. It is just the left mid that is dropping off bad at <125hz. Is that from being way off axis, or a sign that it is closer to complete failure compared to the other mid?

Ya, I'm pretty sure they aren't to happy with me. When playing music I don't really hear the scraping much at all. I know what it is when I do hear it though. I am curious if the coil being in less than ideal condition can cause the irritation problem I'm having.

I haven't touched the gain since I did the install. Yes, when I physically push on the cone I get the scraping noise a little. if put the slightest bit more pressure on one side it is really bad. When looking at the mid straight on, the phase plug and coil are not concentric to each other either. Like something is off center.

Yes, the tweeters just had the little bit of SSS going on but that seems to be addressed now. I don't know how else to describe the irritation other than what I had mentioned earlier with the chalkboard analogy. I'm not sure if it can make a difference, but can pushing them too hard cause permanent damage that would cause such a thing? I've had them hot and stink twice since since I started really trying to see what they can do. I get what sounds like coil rub every now and then, just curious if that could be causing the irritation even though I don't hear the coil rub sound when I am getting the irritation.

I made some test tones with the generator in the link above. I used the same frequencies as the bands in the eq on the 80prs to help simplify what I was doing. I found 800hz and 1250hz needing to be cut a lot(-4db to -6db) to help curb the irritation in the mids. I was playing the tones on a semi low volume while doing this. I did each of the four drivers independently, just getting each one to have the most equal response I could get. Unfortunately, when I played music and brought the volume up to moderate to high levels the irritation was still there. It seemed to help with the SSS in the tweeters though so I guess that is a plus. I got what seems to be a much flatter response across the board, but I did nothing for the irritation. As for the "gap," I dropped the tweets to 2.5khz@12db as it was lacking in that area too much.

I did some more testing today. On the tweeters I I seem to have settled on 3.15k @ 12db as the lowest xover point while retaining acceptable sound. At times they have a hissy sound to the "s" in vocals, like a little extra SSS. Part of that I think may be that I am hitting the limits of the HU internal amp since the tweets are on the HU right now. For the mids I can run 1.25khz @ 12 db or 1.6khz @ 18db while keeping irritation to a minimum. Upon further/closer listening it seems there is something not quite right that I can't seem to tune out completely. It is most prominent in vocals and makes no difference in CD or ipad listening. I liken it to the irritation of nails on a chalkboard. It doesn't actually sound like nails on a chalkboard, but the way it irritates the ears is nearly identical to me. The music and vocals are clear, but there is an irritation in my ears that makes me wince when listening to the individual mids, left or right makes no difference. A little side detail, I have a set of Sony MDR-V6 headphones that I plugged into the headphone jack of my ipad and I can't find any of that irritation that way.

I did not. I'll give that a try and see what I come up with. I to was thinking that seemed low for tweeters. It didn't seem to have an adverse effect on the sound, but makes me nervous nonetheless. Thanks for all the help so far everyone, especially M5. The time spent on this thread alone is more than I ever expected.

Listening independently I ended up at 1.6khz and it sounds much better, both individually and as a whole without the sub on. Much smoother and balanced. Having the tweet that low makes me a little nervous but it sounds fine when listening to each one by itself.

The mid and tweet are currently at 3.15k.

Today I listened to just the left mid for a bit, then just the right mid for a bit. The right side seems to have a warmer sound compared to the left. The first place I notice problems is in the higher-highest vocal range, more so in female than male. It starts getting shrill/harsh and is irritating to the ear. J's description earlier in post #61 is pretty close to what I feel is going on, though I'd prefer not to lose anything in the 80-100hz area. From pushing these mids hard I have had them hot enough to smell twice and now I am getting an occasional clicking noise.

Ok, so with my truck running again I got about another hour in to listen. Going without my stereo for a week, I forgot that it already is decently loud. I couldn't tell much of a difference from the few CDs I tried compared to most of the audio on my ipad. I set the HP on the mids to 125hz @ 24db. Good clarity(by my standards) seems to fall off at about the same volume level as before the xover change. I was able to get quite a bit louder while keeping a mediocre clarity, though, only for short bursts as I was running into thermal issues. It seems to be an overall loss of quality, I can't really pin point any one area failing first. I have played with polarity and it didn't seem to make a huge difference in either way. I thought with T/A and phase adjustments in relation to left and right it is one or the other, depending on the install and tuning preferences. T/A dials them into phase?

Not what I expected. I thought I was going to see a plastic fork flying around in an open window, hoping it wasn't going to go in someones eye.

I met up with Mark when he still lived in AZ and took a listen to the two 18" XCONs he had in the santafe. That was the first time I saw windshield flex in person. I was like then then. I can't seem to remember how I ended up in contact with him though.

Makes sense, you can only get as good as the source material being used. The small amount of CDs I do have in my iTunes library, I ripped with Apple lossless.

I don't really have a whole lot of CDs to choose from unfortunately as I can't stand buying a CD for a few songs, but I'll do my best. I have the ipad eq off. Most of the songs don't have that flattened out or hollow sound, it's just a few here and there.

I use an iPad mini, connected via the USB on the 80prs. From what I have read, the digital signal gets converted by the hu that way, not the ipad. Majority of my music is iTunes purchased, though some tracks are mp3 from who knows where. CDs drive me crazy as I would be constantly swapping them out if I listened in the same way I do with the ipad.

Sounds good. Now I just need to get my truck running so I don't kill my batteries and roast myself in the process. 130 degrees inside the cab is not fun.