Wow this is entertaining, I would just like to say that while 12v ratings on amps were nice. They were about as accurate as a blind man in a sharp shooters contest. Ratings were just as sketchy then as they are now. CEA ratings are at least a step in the right direction towards uniform testing. As much as I love old school amplifiers, a new amp of the same quality with modern architecture will usually walk all over the old school in terms of efficiency.

The monos are slightly more than 5 watts more per side than the EL84's running in triode were...8W vs. 2W...

And yeah, there's a difference

You have an internal combustion engine sitting two feet in front of you on your couch ? Remember we are talking about a car interior here as opposed to a room.

boo jim for bringing home audio into this thread about car audio....boo.....just boo!!

Since when did it specifically say that? In Advanced Discussion, anything is fair game

Home theater sub tuned to 35hz, ROFL.

Since when did it specifically say that? In Advanced Discussion, anything is fair game

oh really.............. then let's talk about what causes that "warm", "enveloping" sound that you tube heads love so much. But yet fight so hard to get rid of in damn near every other piece of equipment

Wow this is entertaining, I would just like to say that while 12v ratings on amps were nice. They were about as accurate as a blind man in a sharp shooters contest. Ratings were just as sketchy then as they are now. CEA ratings are at least a step in the right direction towards uniform testing. As much as I love old school amplifiers, a new amp of the same quality with modern architecture will usually walk all over the old school in terms of efficiency.

That may be true. But when I think of the old days of amplifiers I think of things like the old Rockford amps or Orion HCCA or G4 series. Both were grossly underrated, so I have a sunny view of old-time amps

"oh really.............. then let's talk about what causes that "warm", "enveloping" sound that you tube heads love so much. But yet fight so hard to get rid of in damn near every other piece of equipment"

I don't understand the "fight so hard to get rid of it in damn near every other piece of equipment"? I like my speakers with a enveloping sound, a little warm.......but not too warm.....you start dwelling into the bland and boring if too warm.

I like accurate and detailed, but not all cold and hard either.

Ever owned or built a vacuum tube amp? Single-ended triode? A higher powered push-pull of some sort? Single-ended pentode?

They may be the most inefficient amplifier circuits, and have more distortion than SS circuits, but with the right speakers, they can have a closer connection when listening to music than solid state amplifiers in my experiences.

And it doesn't necesarily have to be warm sounding.

But I like a good SS amp as well. I just wish I could afford a nice one.

I just don't buy into the sound reinforcement amplifiers for home use. Too cold hard and grainy for home audio. Maybe for subwoofers....

But that's my opinion and preference. That's the beauty of this hobby....everyone has their own preference/tastes.

I'll go as far to say the when direct A/B'ing two completely different topology amplifiers side to side with the same speakers, source, and set at the same volume levels, it is rather hard to tell the two apart. When switching back and forth on the fly.

A friend and I have done this with a older Mitsubishi power and pre-amp, and a 2A3 Agape stereo SET amp that has left and right volume pots.

It wasn't a blind test, but it was hard to tell the differences when switching back and forth.

All amplifiers sound the same? I don't think so....you take the two same amplifiers, listen to one for a week (same source, speakers etc...) and then listen to the other for a week. It should easy to tell the differences right off the bat when swapping.

Now that's pretty off topic........Now where are those vids of subwoofers doing the chicken...

Edited June 16, 200817 yr by MikeS

hey, back on topic!!

sqguyib, say something so we can get back to hacking on you.

just kidding of course.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Ahhh, public school "educations." Apparently literacy is a term used quite liberally these day.

Translation: sqguyib, you lack the ability to express your thoughts in written form (and i v'e got a feeling verbal as well since most people write like they talk). I've yet to read a post of yours in which I could follow a coherent thought process or a logical progression of thought.

42 is the answer he is looking for.

Ahhh, public school "educations." Apparently literacy is a term used quite liberally these day.

Translation: sqguyib, you lack the ability to express your thoughts in written form (and i v'e got a feeling verbal as well since most people write like they talk). I've yet to read a post of yours in which I could follow a coherent thought process or a logical progression of thought.

Maybe you just can't comprehend as well as you thought. Why don't you show me what you don't understand so I can help explain the complex nuances of remedial car stereo.

someone should close this so the preschool fighting can come to an end and things get back to a civilized discussion....

Ahhh, public school "educations." Apparently literacy is a term used quite liberally these day.

Translation: sqguyib, you lack the ability to express your thoughts in written form (and i v'e got a feeling verbal as well since most people write like they talk). I've yet to read a post of yours in which I could follow a coherent thought process or a logical progression of thought.

Maybe you just can't comprehend as well as you thought. Why don't you show me what you don't understand so I can help explain the complex nuances of remedial car stereo.

ok, who typed this for you? or maybe you're just better at making shorter comments.

and to answer your question, every post but this one i just quoted.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I like my speakers with a enveloping sound, a little warm.......but not too warm.....you start dwelling into the bland and boring if too warm.

I like accurate and detailed, but not all cold and hard either.

What on earth does any of that mean?

How do you hear accuracy with your ears?

Ramos and I were just joking with each other, we've already been over this in person

Ramos and I were just joking with each other, we've already been over this in person

Yep

Not sure how I missed this topic and all the happenings in it. It is a shame because, there were a few moments in it that had potential to shoot off into a great discussion many could learn from. Such as getting more people to go IB in car audio, or focusing on the application and not the power listed in the amplifier manual.