edited by M5.

Inflammatory comments aren't necessary.

What question? Your concert hall question? Sound reinforcement is for the stage historically, but if you want to tell me differently please do.

What question? Your concert hall question? Sound reinforcement is for the stage historically, but if you want to tell me differently please do.

Speakers in the rear cause feedback through the mics.

You don't have this problem in a car. Thanks for playing.

EDIT: 3-d smilies are weird looking.

Edited October 19, 200915 yr by mrd

What question? Your concert hall question? Sound reinforcement is for the stage historically, but if you want to tell me differently please do.

Speakers in the rear cause feedback through the mics.

You don't have this problem in a car. Thanks for playing.

LOL, nice egurgitation. That has nothing to do with it. Sure feedback can occur, but that isn't a problem in a concert hall today and was never a reason in the past.

In the past, sound reinforcement systems were used to amplify what instruments wouldn't carry. It wasn't to get louder per se, but to make sure everything carried well. Adding rears was never of a concern as this was a live performance and people were meant to watch the musicians on stage. Obviously PA systems have evolved and now effects and other things come into play, but the feedback you attempt to claim is a reason isn't an issue. Have you ever been to a modern sports arena where someone is singing the national anthem? Do you hear any feedback problems? That's right of course not. It is rather easy to electronically remove nearly all anomalies and is done everywhere including concert halls.

Since we are discussing staging and you are so into SQ, how exactly do you have an acoustic stage with rears?

Since we are discussing staging and you are so into SQ, how exactly do you have an acoustic stage with rears?

Couldn't tell you. FCM knows. Ask him...

I need to read more. What I do know is that I personally like rear fill (where there are only midbass speakers at lower output than the fronts). It just doesn't sound good to me with only a front stage.

If you are trying to make music sound good, you don't want to electronically remove all the frequencies that cause "howl". It is easier and better sounding to just leave out the rears. How awesome does the pa system sound when music is playing through it anyway? It doesn't.

Do you know anything about vacuum tubes? I am going to build a tube amp.

Edited October 19, 200915 yr by mrd

Since we are discussing staging and you are so into SQ, how exactly do you have an acoustic stage with rears?

Couldn't tell you.

I need to read more. What I do know is that I personally like rear fill (where there are only midbass speakers at lower output than the fronts). It just doesn't sound good to me with only a front stage.

If you are trying to make music sound good, you don't want to electronically remove all the frequencies that cause "howl". It is easier and better sounding to just leave out the rears. How awesome does the pa system sound when music is playing through it anyway? It doesn't.

Do you know anything about vacuum tubes? I am going to build a tube amp.

I wouldn't use a 1/3 octave bin to remove feedback, but a narrow band. Your ears won't know the difference.

The only reason you like rears is you haven't heard a properly setup front stage. Nearly everytime someone is in the rear of my truck they ask what speakers I have back there. When I say none, they crap. Wasn't hard to do either as my truck has a very budget friendly install.

It wasn't a question I need answered, just knew you didn't have any idea.

I know enough about tubes to not need any. Not opposed, just not my cup of tea.

Since we are discussing staging and you are so into SQ, how exactly do you have an acoustic stage with rears?

Couldn't tell you.

I need to read more. What I do know is that I personally like rear fill (where there are only midbass speakers at lower output than the fronts). It just doesn't sound good to me with only a front stage.

If you are trying to make music sound good, you don't want to electronically remove all the frequencies that cause "howl". It is easier and better sounding to just leave out the rears. How awesome does the pa system sound when music is playing through it anyway? It doesn't.

Do you know anything about vacuum tubes? I am going to build a tube amp.

I wouldn't use a 1/3 octave bin to remove feedback, but a narrow band. Your ears won't know the difference.

The only reason you like rears is you haven't heard a properly setup front stage. Nearly everytime someone is in the rear of my truck they ask what speakers I have back there. When I say none, they crap. Wasn't hard to do either as my truck has a very budget friendly install.

How did you setup your front stage?

I am actually wanting to put a tube amp in my car. And if it doesn't work like I planned I will just use it for home audio...

You don't want a tube amp for a car, it won't help anything other than shrinking your pocketbook prematurely.

My front stage is simple. Seas CA18rnx in the doors, LPG 25nfa right above them, a Pio 880prs providing active crossovers and 16 independent L/R eq bands (L/R critical in my install), a 12" prototype IXL, a couple amps and a ton of deadening and acoustic treatments.

You don't want a tube amp for a car, it won't help anything other than shrinking your pocketbook prematurely.

My front stage is simple. Seas CA18rnx in the doors, LPG 25nfa right above them, a Pio 880prs providing active crossovers and 16 independent L/R eq bands (L/R critical in my install), a 12" prototype IXL, a couple amps and a ton of deadening and acoustic treatments.

Simple my ass. I'm not spending that much damn money. What exactly do you mean by L/R eq bands? Left and right? So you are running one of those equalizers that you can adjust 16 bands individually? Did you use one of those meters to tune it?

The tubes are the most expensive part of this setup. The 12ax7 are only $12 each new...

The problem comes with powering them off a battery. I have a vibrator to do it, but I just need two batteries then to obtain the required 24V for operation. Unless I can find a 12V vibrator for cheaper than a second battery...

Under $1500 including nearly $500 in deadening. I'd call that simple. Yes 16 bands left and 16 right, 1000% necessary in my truck. Stupid Chevrolet. However, to keep this on topic I guarantee with a cheap amp, the stock headunit, and whatever speakers I choose for the same budget as your headunit and speakers it will sound WAY better my way. And since you like terms, have way better SQ.

Listen to a car amp with the 12ax7's once and you won't do what you are doing.

You don't want a tube amp for a car, it won't help anything other than shrinking your pocketbook prematurely.

My front stage is simple. Seas CA18rnx in the doors, LPG 25nfa right above them, a Pio 880prs providing active crossovers and 16 independent L/R eq bands (L/R critical in my install), a 12" prototype IXL, a couple amps and a ton of deadening and acoustic treatments.

Simple my ass. I'm not spending that much damn money. What exactly do you mean by L/R eq bands? Left and right? So you are running one of those equalizers that you can adjust 16 bands individually? Did you use one of those meters to tune it?

The tubes are the most expensive part of this setup. The 12ax7 are only $12 each new...

The problem comes with powering them off a battery. I have a vibrator to do it, but I just need two batteries then to obtain the required 24V for operation. Unless I can find a 12V vibrator for cheaper than a second battery...

Why on god's green earth do you want tubes for a car?? Don't get me wrong I do enjoy them on the right full range horn configuration in a house, but a car??

Under $1500 including nearly $500 in deadening. I'd call that simple. Yes 16 bands left and 16 right, 1000% necessary in my truck. Stupid Chevrolet. However, to keep this on topic I guarantee with a cheap amp, the stock headunit, and whatever speakers I choose for the same budget as your headunit and speakers it will sound WAY better my way. And since you like terms, have way better SQ.

Listen to a car amp with the 12ax7's once and you won't do what you are doing.

Alright. I will find a different tube to use.

$1500 is a hell of a lot of money to put into something that some arseho could just drive away...

I still disagree. IMO the stock hu is a poor choice (of course depending on which stock hu).

What's the budget? A hu significantly better than stock will cost at least $250. Budget would be the deciding factor on whether or not yours will sound better than mine.

You don't want a tube amp for a car, it won't help anything other than shrinking your pocketbook prematurely.

My front stage is simple. Seas CA18rnx in the doors, LPG 25nfa right above them, a Pio 880prs providing active crossovers and 16 independent L/R eq bands (L/R critical in my install), a 12" prototype IXL, a couple amps and a ton of deadening and acoustic treatments.

Simple my ass. I'm not spending that much damn money. What exactly do you mean by L/R eq bands? Left and right? So you are running one of those equalizers that you can adjust 16 bands individually? Did you use one of those meters to tune it?

The tubes are the most expensive part of this setup. The 12ax7 are only $12 each new...

The problem comes with powering them off a battery. I have a vibrator to do it, but I just need two batteries then to obtain the required 24V for operation. Unless I can find a 12V vibrator for cheaper than a second battery...

Why on god's green earth do you want tubes for a car?? Don't get me wrong I do enjoy them on the right full range horn configuration in a house, but a car??

Because tubes are awesome. And it would be fun. I like building stuff. Haha.

Why would you want a $1500 system in your car?

Same principle.

Under $1500 including nearly $500 in deadening. I'd call that simple. Yes 16 bands left and 16 right, 1000% necessary in my truck. Stupid Chevrolet. However, to keep this on topic I guarantee with a cheap amp, the stock headunit, and whatever speakers I choose for the same budget as your headunit and speakers it will sound WAY better my way. And since you like terms, have way better SQ.

Listen to a car amp with the 12ax7's once and you won't do what you are doing.

Alright. I will find a different tube to use.

$1500 is a hell of a lot of money to put into something that some arseho could just drive away...

I still disagree. IMO the stock hu is a poor choice (of course depending on which stock hu).

What's the budget? A hu significantly better than stock will cost at least $250. Budget would be the deciding factor on whether or not yours will sound better than mine.

atleast 250? you can do it for less..decent entry level kenwood's start @ 150ish

Edited October 19, 200915 yr by eggyhustles

I got my pioneer premier 600UB for 132 bucks. its not the best but I like it.

and as for rear fill, I always used to just fade the deck all the way front to get an idea what all front sounded like, then go all rear, back to center and then usually 1 or 2 back towards front (just to the point where I couldnt hear anything from the rear.

just finished up the latest install and I have about 70 watts per side (infinity reference) going to a set of 40 dollar audiobahn 6.5 comps with absolutely no rear speakers and I love the way it sounds, and have been complimented on the sound many times. Ive sat in the back and blasted it and didnt miss the speakers right behind my head.

I know it isnt great and there are areas I wish were better, but those have nothing to do with ditching the rear coax's, because what I do feel Im missing, my current comps do better than any 6.5 coax Ive owned.

Edited October 19, 200915 yr by ppiflat10s

You don't want a tube amp for a car, it won't help anything other than shrinking your pocketbook prematurely.

My front stage is simple. Seas CA18rnx in the doors, LPG 25nfa right above them, a Pio 880prs providing active crossovers and 16 independent L/R eq bands (L/R critical in my install), a 12" prototype IXL, a couple amps and a ton of deadening and acoustic treatments.

16 l/r eq on the 880... damn i should have saved up more and got it that instead

He was a world champion, but he didn't win his world championship with that setup. It was a single show, that he only entered because he didn't want to miss the show and miss out on points. So this wasn't his real competition setup. It was a one time thing. His name was Jason Ewing. He was at one time a member of Team Image Dynamics and according to those who know him, one of the most knowledgeable alarm install guys in the country. He was also on Pimp My Ride for a short period of time. Don't ask me why I remember so much about this guy, because I really don't know. I guess it's from the years he was a prominent member of ECA, back when I was first getting "hard core" into the SQ side of things and spent a shit load of time there...it was at that time that he won the show with the stock VW speakers.

Thanks for that info, I've been looking for the article I originally saw him in for awhile now and could scarcely remember any of the details.

Off to Google I go.

What's the budget? A hu significantly better than stock will cost at least $250. Budget would be the deciding factor on whether or not yours will sound better than mine.

I don't care, any budget. You pick.

I am curious as to what your SQ system is. I told you what is in my truck, what is in your ride? What pieces and how did you do the install?

he's using stock speakers...

Under $1500 including nearly $500 in deadening. I'd call that simple. Yes 16 bands left and 16 right, 1000% necessary in my truck. Stupid Chevrolet. However, to keep this on topic I guarantee with a cheap amp, the stock headunit, and whatever speakers I choose for the same budget as your headunit and speakers it will sound WAY better my way. And since you like terms, have way better SQ.

Listen to a car amp with the 12ax7's once and you won't do what you are doing.

Alright. I will find a different tube to use.

$1500 is a hell of a lot of money to put into something that some arseho could just drive away...

I still disagree. IMO the stock hu is a poor choice (of course depending on which stock hu).

What's the budget? A hu significantly better than stock will cost at least $250. Budget would be the deciding factor on whether or not yours will sound better than mine.

atleast 250? you can do it for less..decent entry level kenwood's start @ 150ish

After my experience with the terrible SQ of the entry-level Kenwood HUs I'll never recommend them.

Coaxials can be pretty close to components in some cases. I just got really lucky with that. Coaxials can also SUCK. I've had that happen too. I would pick a component system over a coaxial every time.