There isnt any reason you can't have stupid loud bass, and then turn the bass level down for regular listening ("sq").

However, you cant expect "sq" while at the same time flexing windows.

If your okay with that, then proceed on.

I quoted sq because it's completely subjective, and what I consider sq may be entirely different then another's idea.

Ie: I have an 18" sub, but 99% of the time I have it attenuated so much that the output is something you'd expect from an 8", but when I get the bass bug I can turn it up.

i truelly want something loud as fuak, rich and smooth with a lot of detail. that is what i'm geared toward

Anything that you've heard that you've liked?

My idea of rich, smooth and detailed and yours are different.

Anything that you've heard that you've liked?

My idea of rich, smooth and detailed and yours are different.

you know how alot of people like bose audio, the larger equipment, not the bathroom radios? yeah, i don't want anything like that. i want something with more detail

If you would like your front stage to sound killer with loud bass then you will have to compromise.

Many drivers in the front will be required, and this will likely pull away from imaging and stage.

Oh and becoming deaf could actually become an issue.

thats why i was leaning toward a 3 way setup first. there is more versatility in a 3 way setup than a 2 way and the sound can be so much bettter. i like keep my subs playing low also when i'm rolling down the block, but i still like my music loud.

There is also way more to fuck up with a three way.

I spent hundreds of hours tuning with my two way before trying a three way, and expecting it to actually sound better.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but even with lots of patience and learning it could still turn out to be less then expected.

Ps I love rolling down the block too. I always piss off my neighbors cause they don't like their walls shaking. Idiots!

3 way can surely help the weakest link which is midbass, but it also creates the biggest mess in your imaging. Since your thread is entitled imaging help and you asked for SQ it is rather counter intuitive.

First question is do you really care about the stage and imaging? When asked about your needs above you didn't reference this at all? I ask because by far the easiest way to gain midbass output is to use your subs to do it. It will seriously simplify your install, but of course at the cost of the stage.

One other caveat, if you goal is to do this all at "loud as fuck" volumes then no normal 3 way set will do it either. Not sure that is your request yet though either.

Great postings by all those involved. Question (my brain wonders a little too much for my own good): Why can't sound quality be "loud as fuck"? Let's say you can design the perfect vehicle with whatever front stage would be needed to keep up with whatever sub stage you could want. Wouldn't that be ideal and sound excellent.

Newb question here: Is sound quality a level of volume or a well balanced and blended sound. Because if it is the latter of the two, why can't sound quality have (10) 18"s in the back?

i guess the way i'm explaining this to you isn't coming through very well. i just want something really rich and warm, something that has a lot of detail yet still able to get loud while remaining clean.

Great postings by all those involved. Question (my brain wonders a little too much for my own good): Why can't sound quality be "loud as fuck"?

You can, but you'll need to spend way more money on your front stage than your sub(s)

i guess the way i'm explaining this to you isn't coming through very well. i just want something really rich and warm, something that has a lot of detail yet still able to get loud while remaining clean.

So then tell me what you mean by rich, warm, and detailed.

I understand what you are saying but I think the confusion comes from the terminology you are using.

There is a difference in sounding good and SQ.

The goal of a SQ is to reproduce the music as accurately as possible. Which then involves frequency response, staging, etc.

something with great midbass, rich vocals, and a smooth top end that doesn't get tinny at louder volumes. i want something that doesn't sound hollow. something like a higher end HT system. rich and warm. i know that it is extremelly hard to get the same sound out of your vehicle because of the environment as you would have in your home, but i would like to get in the ball park.

Great postings by all those involved. Question (my brain wonders a little too much for my own good): Why can't sound quality be "loud as fuck"? Let's say you can design the perfect vehicle with whatever front stage would be needed to keep up with whatever sub stage you could want. Wouldn't that be ideal and sound excellent.

Newb question here: Is sound quality a level of volume or a well balanced and blended sound. Because if it is the latter of the two, why can't sound quality have (10) 18"s in the back?

Well...first of all you would either need godlike drivers (to handle the power they would need to keep up with that substage) or you would need a LOT of drivers, which would probably fuck off the imaging.

Oh and you wouldn't be able to hear all the "warmness" and "detail" at 155db+ (Your 10 18"s SHOULD be doing more than a 155) anyway. If the fronts were louder than a 155+ sub setup then you'd be going deaf real fast.

People confuse SQ with "small setup that's not focused on subwoofers." The reason most SQ setups don't meter a 150 is because it would be so uncomfortable (painful) to listen to the music that loud...which defeats the purpose of SQ setups, which is to reproduce the music EXACTLY as it was recorded. I don't think any artist records at deafening volumes.

It all boils down to accurately reproducing what was recorded. There is some proportionality between frequencies, and this causes it to sound a certain way. Distort this proportionality with a bloated bottom end and it doesn't sound right. You could theoretically have an incredibly loud front stage to keep that proportionality, but it would require many drivers.

As to if you have enough space in the front of the vehicle to accommodate such drivers, I do not know.

I'm not trying to sway you from upgrading your front stage, I'm only letting you know that what you desire, and what truly can be achieved will likely differ.

Great postings by all those involved. Question (my brain wonders a little too much for my own good): Why can't sound quality be "loud as fuck"? Let's say you can design the perfect vehicle with whatever front stage would be needed to keep up with whatever sub stage you could want. Wouldn't that be ideal and sound excellent.

Some of vehicles people describe as some of the "best" "sound quality" (both in quotes) vehicles are also the vehicles where you don't realize how loud the stereo is until you try to talk to the guy in the seat next to you....and realize you can't hear your own voice. Certainly it's possible.....but it also entails A LOT of knowledge and skill because you have to understand proper driver selection, have pretty in-depth tuning skills, excellent installation skills (not necessarily in form, but in function), an understanding of the human hearing mechanisms, etc etc. It's not easy, and it's more dependent on the installation and tuning skills as well as knowledge than it is on what speakers are purchased.

Ideally a true "sound quality" stereo will have the ability to play as loud as an accurate representation of the source material requires. This entails large amounts of transient headroom and high but clean and undistorted output requirements. If you can feel the snare and cymbal hits from the drums in your chest when listening to a live (unamplified) concert, then the stereo should give you this same feeling. They should play loud, but it's a different kind of loud than most bassheads relate to. This ofcourse isn't the only requirement, but it's one that's often overlooked.

Great postings by all those involved. Question (my brain wonders a little too much for my own good): Why can't sound quality be "loud as fuck"? Let's say you can design the perfect vehicle with whatever front stage would be needed to keep up with whatever sub stage you could want. Wouldn't that be ideal and sound excellent.

Some of vehicles people describe as some of the "best" "sound quality" (both in quotes) vehicles are also the vehicles where you don't realize how loud the stereo is until you try to talk to the guy in the seat next to you....and realize you can't hear your own voice. Certainly it's possible.....but it also entails A LOT of knowledge and skill because you have to understand proper driver selection, have pretty in-depth tuning skills, excellent installation skills (not necessarily in form, but in function), an understanding of the human hearing mechanisms, etc etc. It's not easy, and it's more dependent on the installation and tuning skills as well as knowledge than it is on what speakers are purchased.

Ideally a true "sound quality" stereo will have the ability to play as loud as an accurate representation of the source material requires. This entails large amounts of transient headroom and high but clean and undistorted output requirements. If you can feel the snare and cymbal hits from the drums in your chest when listening to a live (unamplified) concert, then the stereo should give you this same feeling. They should play loud, but it's a different kind of loud than most bassheads relate to. This ofcourse isn't the only requirement, but it's one that's often overlooked.

this is what i am looking for over all. complete sublime

Are you ready to take the budget for your subs, multiple by 4 for the front stage and pay someone to do it? If so you can have sublime.

i know it seems like were goinng in circles with this, but i started this off as an "SQ style" system. i don't want straight SQ, but i do want something that sounds absolutelly amazing. i know that imaging will have a lot to do with that. i don't really know jack about what it takes to build a great sounding "SQ styled" system. i've always thrown a set of components in there, amp them, cross them over, play with the EQ a bit and let her rip. i want more now and just want some ideas on what i should do with it. i really appreciate your time though guys

What are you willing / capable of doing as far as fabricating up pods or panels?

What are you willing / capable of doing as far as fabricating up pods or panels?

i can fab up that stuff pretty easily. i have no problem building things or fabricating. thats the route i was planning on taking.

The difficulty still lies here in the definition. Perhaps a logical question would be to what output level on your bass do you want this to exist? If you say flat out full throttle and are turning 145dB plus just for once imagine the cone area and excursion required to do that and then think of what will be required of your midbass at 2x that frequency. Yikes!

Most people in your shoes eventually turn from saying SQ into an "I just want to hear the words" or "something not ultra distorted", but also forget to describe the level where this is necessary and when a compromise is acceptable. In my vehicles it doesn't matter the overall potential output I'm never running things full bore for more than a few minutes. Trying to build a front stage for those really ridiculous times perhaps isn't so logical.

Horn Loaded Compression Drivers and 8" - 10" pro audio midbass drivers.

I honestly think this is about the only logical means by which to reach the goals you are aiming for. It is NOT a beginner system, so I hesitated in suggesting it....but IMO most of the tuning issues with this system comes mostly from the EQ adjustment rather than crossover selection and other issues like the other options. It would have the output and impact to make your chest feel like it was collapsing and with properly adjusted EQ selection and installation it would still be capable of high fidelity, great detail and good imaging at normally listening levels.

Horn Loaded Compression Drivers and 8" - 10" pro audio midbass drivers.

I honestly think this is about the only logical means by which to reach the goals you are aiming for. It is NOT a beginner system, so I hesitated in suggesting it....but IMO most of the tuning issues with this system comes mostly from the EQ adjustment rather than crossover selection and other issues like the other options. It would have the output and impact to make your chest feel like it was collapsing and with properly adjusted EQ selection and installation it would still be capable of high fidelity, great detail and good imaging at normally listening levels.

I was definitely thinking along the lines of some pa style big ass mids in the doors, but the horns are going to be some serious icing on the cake.

This should be an interesting build to follow.

Edited June 28, 201213 yr by stefanhinote