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Active 2-way with Full Range driver for the top end? This is not meant to be a pick my driver for me topic. My new dilemma is because of Adrian, he put the full range bug in my ear and I am starting to question my plans. I am not as versed in full range drivers as many others are on this board, so why not use the knowledge base. Setting: car - Mazda Protege5 wagon original front stage plans - Bravox CF603CF's power - many to choose from, so not an issue mounting location - FR's or mid/tweet would have to be at the base of the A-pillars (small manual car with no real room in the foot wells) Now where I am questioning my plans is that I have not had a passive set up in years, but this is supposed to be one of the premier offerings out there. Would be fun to put 200+ watts a side on the Bravox and say I have a $1200+ front stage and a $0 sub set up. I have been happy with 2-way active for a while now, and have the HU's to do it no problem. If I try this approach and were to go active it would be with a pair of AA Carbon's and a quality FR 2" - 3" driver. The advantages on the surface to switch to this approach; much cheaper, much less to mount and aim, less fiber glass work, active control of course, and no massive crossover to hide. I am not forced to go with a full range, but I am aiming for another top tier front stage again. The new TB's look interesting for sure. I do still have my SEAS neo textile tweets if I were to go a more standard 2-way active route. Don gave me a nice link to read: http://www.mobilesoundscience.com/f6/augmented-wideband-approach-car-fi-what-why-how-50/, even though I am not a fan of DS-21, it is a good topic on this subject. So the over all point of this topic is to get some feedback on Adrian's approach. This is not me doubting it, it is an effort to make sure it is right for me.

and the best demo i've gotten on film.

It's all enclosure dependent, F3 will vary with the enclosure and the woofer in the enclosure, remember Fs. is only the resonance of the suspension in an anechoic environment, which is very different than an enclosure in a vehicle. Never let that ALONE dictate woofer choice, yes it plays a part in response but by itself is not enough to rule out a woofer.

I cringed when I read that ^^ Why? Because it sounds better than what you have already? Notice I said probably. Is that a yessss? No actually I'm contemplating active, currently running Bravox CS60CF's on a BOSS REV-665 and an Alpline 9887 I'l take that as a yes. We'll see though. I haven't even turned on th estereo in one yet. Brad loved the CS60's, I had to jump on them, and the BOSS being a ZED amp speaks for itself

I have put razor blades inside of ports before. In the PVC, I cut slits and glues the razor blades in. There were large wingnuts at the bottom of the box holding it down, you just had to reach all the way through the port to reach it. And not just a couple of blades, like 10. Only sticking in about 1/4" - 1/2" And at a good angle where going in it would cut clean, but then when you panic and start jerking around, you are pulling against the corner of the blade.... I did this for a buddy who lived in a bad area. His car still got broken into, but there was were blood everywhere, and little pieces of skin shreads inside the port. They got pissed and smashed all his windows, but they didn't actually steal anything. Honestly, I kind of felt good about the whole thing, whoever did it lost a lot of blood and has probably stuck with some messed up hands... There was blood drops up the street and then gone I guess where they parker a car...

AMG 6.3

As long as the final ohm load isn't too low I'd run them strapped. Saves you from having to match the gains.

Just received confirmation Joining you Peng.

It's really important when looking at a problem like this to figure out what is going on. The quick answer is always "put some deadener (vibration damper) on it" but that may not really be what you need. Vibration damper will control panel resonance. That vibration can eventually loosen panels and lead to rattles but remember - rattles are always two or more hard objects making intermittent contact. Adding vibration damper may help and it may help prevent the conditions that led to the rattling, or not. We care about panel resonance because it can energize rattles, but more because it selectively reinforces the sound we hear at the natural frequency of the resonating panel. This only matters when you are looking for accurate reproduction. We also want to control panel resonance because it is a mechanism for transmitting noise into the vehicle from the outside. All of this means that sound deadener (vibration damper) has an important role to play when we care about quality musical reproduction and a quiet vehicle. It sounds to me like you were happy with things at first, beat the hell out of the vehicle and now it's starting to rattle. If what you want is to get back to the way things used to be, vibration damper isn't going to be the best answer. What we're really talking about in this case is accelerated wear. All of the clips and fasteners that used to be nice and snug have been moved around enough that they are wearing out. I'm really tempted to make an analogy to a a woman here, but will resist the urge. There are basically two approaches you can take to this problem. You can go through the vehicle and replace the clips and fasteners so that they are tight again or you can put something between the objects making contact to stop them from doing so. The best material for this is closed cell foam. Line the backs of the trim panels. Soft will be hitting hard and it won't make any noise. This will also take up some of the slack that has been created. If you care about resonance, apply vibration damper to the sheet metal while the panels are off. If not, you're good. This is really the inevitable result of adding more pressure to the system than it was designed to handle. Big dude, little chick kind of problem (couldn't resist )

We have some plans for the sound system and as you said we hope it will be able to keep up, if not we can roll down the windows and listen to the engine!!

We cranked the motor this evening and it sounds great!! Had a little trouble with the fuel pressure regulator, but other than that everything went perfect. Grasshopper was amazed that it fired up so well. He was a little funny about cranking it, the closer we got to firing it up the more nervous he got. (quite a large investment) He reminded me of a cat in a room full of rocking chairs, as you will tell in the video. We still have a number of things to do before we give it the first test drive but hopefully we will be road worthy by the end of the week.

Here's an update, What do these pictures tell us??? Yep it's time!!!! By grasshoper at 2010-11-13 By grasshoper at 2010-11-13

Here is a quick vid to go with the progress of the gauges. Gives an idea of what we did with the LEDs... Grasshopper seems to like the use of LEDs. More to come!

Gauge panel installed and time to test out a few of the circuits... By grasshoper at 2010-11-13 By grasshoper at 2010-11-13 By grasshoper at 2010-11-13

Here we go with some updates on the wiring for the gauges. Got our LEDs for the dash indicators. Things are starting to come together. Here are some pics. By grasshoper at 2010-11-08 By grasshoper at 2010-11-08 By grasshoper at 2010-11-13 By grasshoper at 2010-11-13 By grasshoper at 2010-11-13 By grasshoper at 2010-11-13 By grasshoper at 2010-11-13 By grasshoper at 2010-11-13

I recommend to avoid the stock door panel location for mounting your speakers. You can spend $100's for a high end component set and still have poor imaging and reduced sound quality by mounting your speakers in the doors. Furthermore mounting your tweeters 3 feet away from the midrange will not help staging (it could work) For you situation, your vehicle, budget and goals I recommend kick panel mounted components. Q-Logic makes prefabbed kick panels specifically for your vehicle. They also come color matched to your stock interior color. This will give you better staging and better sound quality then door mounted (dropped into factory holes) speakers. The kick panels accept a 5.25" component set. With proper setup you could even run an 8" woofed in your door for added midbass. http://www.qlogicdirect.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=222_223_2438_2451_2459&products_id=80&zenid=e8515b37c0970b76ae5de968c213905d

And now onto being helpful. $2500 is a nice chunk of change to do something nice. Have you heard anything you like?

The building of the custom guage cluster has begun. We made some good progress tonight and here are a few pics of the results. Decided on using a black plexi panel as the mounting surface for the guages. By grasshoper at 2010-11-08 Cutting plexi is a slow process, but it went fairly well. By grasshoper at 2010-11-08 Holes cut for the outer gauges. By grasshoper at 2010-11-08 By grasshoper at 2010-11-08 All the mounting holes cut and the plate attatched to the backing bracket that will mount the guage cluster in the original location in the truck. By grasshoper at 2010-11-08 By grasshoper at 2010-11-08 Mounting of the guages... By grasshoper at 2010-11-08 By grasshoper at 2010-11-08 Cluster ready for some wiring and we have decided to incorporate some LEDS into the face of the cluster for turn signals, high beams, and parking brake. By grasshoper at 2010-11-08 Lots of wiring for us to do over the next few days and awaiting the LEDs to show. Stay tuned for more...

Dash is out and the modding wheels are turning. Have to fit the Autometer package in the factory spot, but should not be a problem. Here are some pics. By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 At 205197 the old 4.3 did a good job. Now it's time to turn back the odometer to 0 and have a little more power!! By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 Our project this week is to take this space below and fit the Autometer package into it. By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 These are the guages going in the above space. By grasshoper at 2010-11-07

Now it's time to get the relays setup for the few circuits that need modded since there is not a computer to control 2 of the circuits plus the addition of 2 circuits. Quick diagram for the relays. By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 Relay pack. By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 Relays harnessed up and ready. By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 Harness is in place under the hood and here is were the relays will go. By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 A little fun while getting the realys mounted. Gotta make sure the are straight. By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 Various pictures of the wring around the engine bay... By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 Just a few more connections under the hood to take care of, still lots to do in the dash for the new guage package. Comments, questions or whatever is on your mind post it up. We understand this is not an audio install at this point, but we do want to hear your comments on this phase of the project. Thanks, and stay tuned!

Qucik prep for the beginning of phase 2 of this project. Installing the 1/0 grommet in the firewall. By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-06 I know this is something simple but is part of the install that I don't recall seeing in any of the builds I've looked at so far.(of coarse I may have missed a few along the way)

Time for some updates...It seems this build is really dragging, but when you are completely rebuilding the wiring harness and redesigning the drivetrain it takes as long as it takes especially when you are trying to go the extra mile to make sure it is done right. So on to the updates. If there seems to be to many pics of wiring to bad just passing along how much has been done and the pics don't show the half of it. On to the pics... Various shots along the way... By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 Figuring circuits and location of were they need to be. By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 Grounding circuits have been relocated and lengths adjusted... By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 This is the overall harness built other than connecting the few circuits for the relays and the new guages that will be installed in the dash By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 By grasshoper at 2010-11-05 That's the end of actually building the harness, next we will get to installing it under the hood.

Now for some info on the wiring. Since this motor will be old school HEI and Carb all the computerized wiring needs to be removed and quite a few circuits will have to be rewired. From the factory the fuel pump, A/C, and the starter relay were controled by the computer, now they will operate by the key in the way of some added relays. First line of bussiness is to trim out the wires not needed and get a layout of what and were we need to make adjustments. Here are a few pics to give you an idea what we are up against. By grasshoper at 2010-11-01 By grasshoper at 2010-11-01 Harness under the knife... By grasshoper at 2010-11-01 By grasshoper at 2010-11-01 An idea what was removed from the original harness By grasshoper at 2010-11-01 By grasshoper at 2010-11-01 A portion of the schematics needed to trace all the circuits. By grasshoper at 2010-11-01 Will be working to get the harness setup for the new motor and the few extra cicuits we will be adding.

Grasshopper has been held with his job making that money to continue with his build so I'll bring you up to speed with what has been happening. This is the Hal-effect Sensor for the new Speedo we will be installing. We have soldered in a harness to run from the trans to the firewall were it will be tied in as we get the wiring setup. By grasshoper at 2010-10-27 Here is the starter ready to be installed with the feed and signal wire setup. By grasshoper at 2010-10-27 Have completed the plumbing for the cooling system. Heater hoses installed. By grasshoper at 2010-10-27 By grasshoper at 2010-10-27 Check out that high-speed radiator cap!! By grasshoper at 2010-10-27 Lower radiator hose installed. By grasshoper at 2010-10-27 Upper hose installed. By grasshoper at 2010-10-27 By grasshoper at 2010-10-27 Secured the trans. lines. By grasshoper at 2010-10-27 By grasshoper at 2010-10-27 Cleaned up the wiring going to the fan module. By grasshoper at 2010-10-27 Got the accumulator and A/C lines installed. By grasshoper at 2010-10-27 By grasshoper at 2010-10-27 Here are just some random shots that we took along the way. By grasshoper at 2010-10-27 By grasshoper at 2010-10-27 By grasshoper at 2010-10-27 By grasshoper at 2010-10-27 By grasshoper at 2010-10-27 By grasshoper at 2010-10-27 We have split open the wiring harness and have started the process of eliminating the wiring not needed in our situation of this build. Will get some pictures up of the wiring in the next few days as we get closer to having the electrical hooked up. Stay tuned.

OK guys I cracked into grasshopper's pictures and this is what I found that he hasn't posted. I knew more had been done but the pictures havn't shown it. No disrespect, but the story has to be told.... Driveshaft was pulled, and was shortend, balanced, new carrier bearing and u-joints installed. By grasshoper at 2010-10-19 Back in... By grasshoper at 2010-10-19 By grasshoper at 2010-10-19 New trans pan installed... By grasshoper at 2010-10-19 Trans Cooler installed. By grasshoper at 2010-10-19 By grasshoper at 2010-10-19 By grasshoper at 2010-10-19 Have started running the trans lines to the cooler. By grasshoper at 2010-10-19 By grasshoper at 2010-10-19 Getting the plumbing of the cooling system started. By grasshoper at 2010-10-19 By grasshoper at 2010-10-19 By grasshoper at 2010-10-19 Power Steering connected. By grasshoper at 2010-10-19 Have started the plumbing of the fuel system. By grasshoper at 2010-10-19 By grasshoper at 2010-10-19 By grasshoper at 2010-10-19 By grasshoper at 2010-10-19 Thats all I could get you guys for now, we will continue working!

right again M5 as usual gross in my perspective means the total amount without deduction net in my perspective means the total amount with deduction, left over amount. So your gross would be WITHOUT displacement and net would be WITH displacement deduction. Which would mean at 0.8 being your gross you would subtract the 0.1 for sub displacement leaving you 0.7 net which is 0.05 more then your box NET volume suggested given you used an internal port vs an external port which is the gain of an external port, does it look as good nope, can it achieve the same outcomes sure can. Realistically though is your ear going to judge the OPs Sq output? If we are talking means of SQ why not use a cleaner power source? A class D amp is hardly of SQ standards.