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To order a re-cone e-mail [email protected] -- do not e-mail my "sundownz" address if you need a quick response.To reduce back-and-forth e-mails ALWAYS include the following : 1) What you are ordering -- Model, Coil Configuration, Etc. 2) If you already have a basket or not; please check below for any special notes. 3) If you need ANY custom options please specify up front. 4) !!! YOUR ADDRESS AND NAME !!! 5) A picture of what you have goes a long way to be SURE we are talking about the same thing. IT WILL TAKE, ON AVERAGE, 10-14 days for a built item like a drop-in to be completed. ---------- EDIT 8/30/11 : WE CANNOT WARRANTY DIY RE-CONE ASSEMBLY ISSUES. Read and understand this -- if you are not 110% sure about re-coning the driver ask us or send it in. We can ONLY stand behind labor that we perform. Manufacturing defects in the kit itself are of course our responsibility but installation is 100% the customer responsibility. This includes ticking, broken parts, etc. Thanks for the understanding. ---------- This thread over-rides any prior quotes or costs -- I sat down and really calculated the numbers this morning and costs may have varied in the past on estimates. These prices are the same for everyone; Team, dealer, customer, etc. All costs + SH charges. ---------- KITS DO NOT include shims or glue. White paper trimmed / stacked to spec works perfectly for shimming -- use enough where it is snug but not so tight you can barely get the coil in the gap. For glue we suggest Loc-Tite 5-minute epoxy with mixing tubes to glue the spider to the frame (MAKE SURE to sand it first) and we suggest Amazing Goop or E6000 for the surround and dust cap (sand frame for surround and rough up the glue surface of the dust cap with sand paper as well). These can be purchased from Lowes or Home Depot very commonly and some Wal-Mart and Craft Stores. We can sell CA glue by request but it typically is not very cost effective for the end user. ---------- MODEL -- RE-CONE Price -- FRAME Price E8 v.2 (or v.1) -- $28.00 -- $5.00 * D2 / D4 available Stock * MUST buy basket to re-cone a v.1 model E8 v.3 -- $30.00 -- $5.00 * D2 / D4 Available E-10 -- $35 -- $10 E-12 -- $35 -- $10 E-15 -- $45 -- $10 * D2 / D4 Available !!!FOR SA-8 KITS SEE THIS THREAD TO DETERMINE WHAT MODEL YOU HAVE. WE MUST HAVE THIS INFO TO MAKE THE CORRECT KIT!!! SA-8 v.1 or v1.5 -- $32.00 -- $10.00 * MUST SPECIFY v.1 or v1.5 when ordering !!! * D2 / D4 available Stock * CCAW 4-layer D2 or D4 SPL Coils Available No Extra Charge (these are lighter but can still be used daily as the gap is not tighter than stock) * These kits now ship standard with a round lead wire that is more rugged SA-8 v.2 -- $50.00 -- $15.00 * D2 / D4 available Stock * SA-8 v.2 Kits Available with SPL 8-layer D1 Coil for $20.00 Extra (Very tight gap and may tick slightly at high excursion) * CCAW 4-layer D2 or D4 SPL Coils Available No Extra Charge (these are lighter but can still be used daily as the gap is not tighter than stock) * Extra Spiders Available for $5.00 Extra Each for a MAX of FIVE (stock is two); DO NOT order extra spiders for anything but SPL SD-2 8 -- $40.00 -- $15.00 * D4 Coils ONLY SD-2 10 -- $35.00 -- $15.00 SD-2 12 -- $35.00 -- $18.00 * D2 / D4 available SA-10 -- $40.00 -- $15.00 SA-12 -- $40.00 -- $18.00 SA-15 -- $50.00 -- $21.00 * SA-10/12/15 add $20.00 for SPL Coils (D1,D2,D4) * D2 / D4 available in stock opper NSv1 12 -- $100.00 -- $25.00 NSv1 15 -- $110.00 -- $30.00 NSv1 18 -- $120.00 -- $40.00 * 3H Nightshade Spiders Stock * Add $10.00 for double leads * Z v.3 Spider Available No Extra Charge * NS v.3 Spider Pack Add $10 * D1 / D2 Available NSv2 12 -- $130.00 -- $25.00 NSv2 15 -- $140.00 -- $30.00 NSv2 18 -- $150.00 -- $40.00 * 3H Nightshade Spiders Stock * Add $10.00 for double leads * Z v.3 Spider Available No Extra Charge * NS v.3 Spider Pack Add $10 * D1 / D2 Available (SPL COIL Available) Zv2 12 -- $100.00 -- $25.00 Zv2 15 -- $110.00 -- $30.00 Zv2 18 -- $120.00 -- $40.00 * Copper or Aluminum Coils Available * Z v.3 Spider Pack Now Standard (5/1/12) * MUST USE Z v.3 SPACER * Add $10 for NS v.3 Spider Pack * D1 / D2 Available Z v.3 10" -- $115.00 -- $20.00 Z v.3 12" -- $115.00 -- $25.00 Z v.3 15" -- $125.00 -- $30.00 Z v.3 18" -- $135.00 -- $40.00 * D1 / D2 Available (SPL COIL Available) * Add $10 for NS v.3 Spider Pack or "Traditional" 3H NS Pack * The 10/12 models use a different coil than the 15/18 models * The SPL coil can ONLY be used on the 10/12 with the "Traditional" 3H NS Pack !!!! IMPORTANT NOTE : YOU MUST USE OUR NEWEST 12-spoke 15" FRAMES TO USE THE Z v.3 OR NS v.3 SPIDER PACKS !!!! They are 8 3/8" spiders and require a modified top landing. The other spiders for 10/12 and the 18 are compatible with any 12-spoke / 6-spoke that I am aware of. Also -- the NS cone will NOT be offered on ANY drivers with a v.3 style spider pack in 15s or 18s. The v.3 spiders (Z v.3 and NS v.3) can exceed the mechanical limits of the NS style cones in these sizes. ----------- NEW PLATFORM PRODUCTS (Basket Prices are WITH the purchase of a SUNDOWN product re-cone) : MODEL -- RE-CONE Price -- FRAME Price X-10 -- $130.00 -- $70.00 X-12 -- $135.00 -- $80.00 X-15 -- $140.00 -- $95.00 X-18 -- $155.00 -- $40.00 * 18" Use the Standard 6-Spoke Frame w/ a 257mm Spider Adapter * D2 and D4 Coils Available (CCAW Round Wire) * Add $10.00 for Z v.4 Stiffness Spider * Add $20.00 for NS v.3 Stiffness Spider Z v.4 10 -- $150.00 -- $70.00 Z v.4 12 -- $155.00 -- $80.00 Z v.4 15 -- $160.00 -- $95.00 Z v.4 18 -- $175.00 -- $40.00 * 18" Use the Standard 6-Spoke Frame w/ a 257mm Spider Adapter * D1 and D2 Coils Available * Softer X Spider Available - NO EXTRA CHARGE * Add $10.00 for NS v.3 Stiffness Spider NS v.3 10 -- TBA NS v.3 12 -- TBA NS v.3 15 -- TBA NS v.3 18 -- TBA * -- Both the X and Z v.4 kits / Frames can be retrofit into the NS v.1, NS v.2, and Z v.3 motors; these motors cannot handle the FULL capacity of the new soft parts so a hard bottom is possible. ** -- SPL kits are in development with a different cone and spider type. Pricing is TBA on those. *** -- The Z v.2 motor bolt pattern is compatible with the new platforms as well but we do not suggest it as it has a limited amount of rearward travel (41mm). Baskets WITHOUT a Re-Cone Kit (With Gasket and Terminals) : 10" -- $90 12" -- $100 15" -- $115 + SH * The new baskets are BOLT PATTERN compatible with any of our 3" coil motors to-date. They use the standard 127mm pattern so can be used on MANY other products.

I believe they are behind schedule due to waiting on USA Made Steel!

Thanks, I think you did that. I didn't call out Florida as a whole, just said that the majority of hair brained ideas I see on this forum come from those in FL. Actually said 8 out of 10, which I admitted might be high but it is a rather biased amount. In no way was this meant to say that everyone in FL was an idiot or any other put down on the whole state. I also definitely referenced there are some really stupid ideas happening in mass in car audio in Florida, but you just agreed with that statement above. I have no respect for anyone who wants to be loud to garner attention and never will. If your manlihood is so small you have to go around being a pest to people and blaring music they think is shit, then you need your head re-adjusted. Now that being said if you want it loud as balls for you, by all means do it and I'd even be glad to help. The manlihood comment should only be taken personally if you are one of those that drive around and try to disturb others, otherwise, don't take it personally it isn't about you. Sorry this wasn't more clear in my post, but even re-reading it I don't see how it could misinterpreted. You misunderstand what would impress me. Doing more with a different design and no other changes is the task at hand. Maximizing what you can do impresses me. Most definitely can theories be defeatable, but this is done empirically and at that point the theory becomes invalid. A theorem on the other hand is proven and while of course everyday scientists are finding new and different infomation, unless you can prove it wrong empirically it holds true. If you remove the theory from your argument and just look at the rest of your sentence, "i personally believe that this build has proven its self, and utilizes the entire spectrum of variables extremely well in the design. not just the physics, and wave lengths, but also the pressure, angles, and acoustics of the vehicle." you give a subjective response. You believe, fine, but that does not disprove any theory. Now you bring up something I already brought up in the acoustics of the vehicle (which surely encompasses pressure, angles, wavelengths), which is exactly why I asked the questions I did. So far at this point the designer and I have the same information. We have some info on the drivers and power available and need to make a box. He designs one and assumes it will sound great, I see the design and show why this is different. The box has a narrow response and another alignment with those same drivers in that same space would have a wider response and can keep the same peak. Then we both get to add cabin gain and change the plots again. He made some judgement that said that the enclosure volume would work well and that it would meet Malibu's goals. This will become very clear and easy if he just states why what volumes, port size, and the alignment was chosen. And again, I'll list the possible driving force here. It is very possible that Malibu forced him down a path that made no sense. If this is indeed the case, as I said before I apologize to the designer. I already commended the build quality, but considering all you guys dwell only on what I highlighted as negative I'd like to point this out again. The installation and build of the design is stellar, great job of executing that part of the plan. I'll await and expect the response of why what was chosen.

Saw that, hella good score on drive by! Great job Will! Mark, cant you get his ass on the forum?

These are my main goals: 1) Moderately loud bass 2) Small budget (don't have a set amount just yet) 3) Low power 4) Very small enclosure(s) I realize that with a system like this I won't be flexing any windshields or winning any competitions (I don't compete anyway), but there's still that part of me that wants people to hear it, see what I have and then start looking around for more subs. I also kind of want to do something a little different than just "a sub in a box in the back of an SUV", and running multiple smaller subs seems like something that might fit that bill. IMO your best option then would be to look for something to run ported. It would be a little more difficult to get "significant" output (your "moderately" is probably equivalent to my "really") in the lower frequency region with small subs in a sealed enclosure for various reasons. Also, there are a few givens in audio. One of them is known as Hoffman's Iron Law. There's a long explanation as to why this is the case, but simply stated you can only achieve two of the following three: 1) Small Enclosure, 2) High Efficiency, 3) Low Frequency Extension. Your list appears to dictate that you are choosing # 1 and # 2, in which case you will necessarily give up # 3. The transfer function of the vehicle will help some in the low frequency extension department....but realistically if you want really low power with moderately high output (i.e. high efficiency) in a small enclosure, you are necessarily going to give up low frequency extension. So you have to ask yourself......moderately loud where in the subbass frequency range? If you want loud from ~50hz and up, for example, your goals should work fine. If you want loud and impressiveness at 30hz, well.....your goals are necessarily going to eliminate that as a possibility. Food for thought. Do you have a target budget? A target space you would like the enclosure to fit in (dimensions ideally)? A target power level?

I see what there saying. And I want to see Sean's response, and their response to his questions. I think it all comes down to: How did the box builders come up with the measurements, volumes, and tuning. And why? And what did they change / do to make it work better for the specific vehicle. M5 wants to know what was their reasoning for their math on the enclosure. And they want to know how he can say it will have a very non linear response when he hasn't heard it, or doesn't know the vehicles cabin characteristics. And M5 would want to know what they did with their knowledge of the cabin characteristics, and how they used it to make the enclosure. I'm I right everyone? Sound fair?

Wow, nice build. However, you should have predrilled holes on a couple of pieces of wood. They split and will cause you some problems with SQ. Just ask, I'm sure somebody here will tell you that exact same thing. Keep up the work. Hope to see videos soon as well as seeing/hearing it in reality (since I hate theories)

I'll have to find the information again but the answer to Question #2 is the EBP, Efficiency Bandwidth Product. It's a figure using a few of the theile/small params that can tell you if it's best suited for sealed or ported. On Question #1 there are formula's available to help make those calculations and determine the box size. However, a decent program like WinISD or BassBox Pro can get you 3/4 of the way in the direction you need to go. Another idea is to check to see if the manufacturer has any information available. There's still no substitute for trial and error either. Just because some program says it's good doesn't mean it will be. You'll have to build it, listen to it and see if it yields the results you're after, and if its not then rebuild. Formulas, websites and software can get you close and sometimes well within the area of respectable results, but a little tweaking and playing can get almost always get it better. It wouldn't hurt get you a copy of Vance Dickason's "Loudspeaker Cook Book" either. It goes through the theories and processes and gives examples and such. Very good source to learn from.

Harvey, In the midst of getting all the hondas out your regulator upgrade was overlooked on accident. The honda regulators do really well but are set a little bit lower. If voltage becomes an issue, I'll issue you a call tag and get the alternator right back out to you as soon as possible. I do apologize about this however, but let me know how the voltage is holding up.

i have heard this a lot lately... could you explain ? sorry for the thread hijack OP You only need ~25% coverage in the center of the panel to control panel resonance. This is what you would use cld tiles for... Now mlv and ccf, your going to want to pretty much cover everything up. MLV (mass loaded vinyl) is used for sound deadening, so cover everything you can with it. The CCF closed cell foam, goes in between panels so that can't rattle against each other. So doors for example: Put a few cld tiles in spread apart across the door sheet metal. This will add some rigidity and help stop the sheet metal from flexing in and outward. Then cutout a layer of mlv to cover the whole door, use adhesive or velcro to hold it in place (heavy stuff). Lastly, add a layer of ccf so the plastic door panel doesn't rattle against the actual metal door.

The problems I've had with the shop and CNC times have been unacceptable, but completely beyond my control. I'm trying to find an alternative shop to get the work done asap- but until I finish my personal shop some time this summer I am at the mercy of outside machine shops to complete the brackets. I'm told the CNC will be fixed by the end of the week every time a repair person gets on the phone, or I talk to the shop owner. A week after that products should start shipping again, but as you've expressed the week or so I've been promised has been exceeded by a LOT. I'm very sorry this problem has been passed on to the few of you who I accepted pre-orders from, at this point I'm holding off on all new brackets and pre-orders until I have product in-hand so this does not happen again. I'm trying to work out a deal with another shop to get things going sometime this upcoming week, and get you guys squared away. Again I am very sorry for the wait, I never expected to keep anyone waiting more than the time I promised. Its not right to you guys, and as this thread shows it makes me look bad- which I certainly don't want. As far as emails I've had several problems with lost emails from the email servers side- I don't know why, and unless I know I wont have issues I'll be switching so I know I'm getting everyones email. Due to a few family issues (sickness etc) I got backed up with my emails. I believe I'm pretty much caught up, so there should be little to no wait for a response. If anyone doesn't hear from me after a day please try again, I don't mean to keep anyone waiting! Thank you for those who have waited, I'm doing everything I can to take care of these problems and get your bracket shipped out quickly. Please know YOU WILL BE TAKEN CARE OF! Troy Jones

Eric, I know exactly how to fix this, but your going to have to give me some time to fab it up. Basically we're just going to hang a backside idler pulley on the bottom alternator pivot bolt between the alt and crank pulley and put a larger diameter pulley on the alt. There's room there to do it without question and we do it all the time. You have the exact same problem as all Triton V8 Fords, shitty belt path and contact area. It's not that there's any problem with the 4G pulley turning an XP, we do it all the time, you just have to get enough belt wrap on the pulley. You only have 90º contact area there, and it's just not enough surface area. I just wanted to let you know that I hadn't forgot about this, just been thinking about how we're going to fix it.. Rob

Just wanted to add that this car looks and sounds great, no thanks to the fail "tech team" over here. They just talk alot of crap about builders math and use programs to dictate responses. They gave bad advice to the OP and when the OP fought back him and his builder were attacked. This is not a SQ setup its ""SQL"". O yeah and that little dirty trick of locking the thread after M5 spouted more bullshit was a good move. Bottom line there so called experience is lacking 154 on the dash door open?? Very nice, sounds awesome too.

I guess I missed the details. What box/amp setup? How are optimal enclosures being built when t/s specs are unknown? It looks like alot of people have these subs yet "Joe Public" is told that the manufacturer doesn't have metal to make them. As a potential buyer things are looking a bit strange with these ZCONS.