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And you never sit back and think why people are siding with M5... Instead, everyone wanting to be offensive and take pride that you "win" this and "win" that sounds arrogant and nobody wants to help someone who acts like that. It's the same attitude a teenager has. They think they know everything. I'm just letting you know that's how this whole argument looks and if it doesn't change it's attitude soon.. it will be completely over. It's funny how after everyone goes to sleep last night that all kinds of "new members" come on this thread and start badgering him and think they won an argument? Arrogance. M5 is VERY knowledgeable.. There is a reason why Impious, M5, Topgun and i think even Tirefryr are all over this topic and are persistent about the conversation. If they were not knowledgeable.. why would they still be persistent? Now, you guys think M5 is dodging your questions and we know you guys are dodging his.. Why am i looking at it like that? He wants to know, for example, how a user can trust a designer who may know a lot about 1 note wonder boxes, but implied from the users here, that he is not known for doing musical daily designs. It's been said a thousand times already that this design was for music, not competition. But when M5 starts to ask info about the design.. all we keep getting is the designer has built winning boxes for competition. How does that have anything to do with musical boxes? These are TWO totally different box designs. So.. based on that info.. still, the only info he or we have, it appears the knowledge that was involved in making the design was from a pure competitor point of view, a peaky point of view. M5 has yet to be told what info the designer used to build the design... What is it, where is it? Without this info, it is pointless to keep nagging him about it because he WANTS TO HELP\EDUCATE those involved so they can understand what he wants to express. But you guys want his credentials prior to helping yourself? I hope you see how ridiculous that looks. Now, back on topic i hope.

if one is to do a sweep.. it needs to be created.. not one just randomly available. It was said this setup does 155+ between 26-55hz... So, i can create the sweep file and host it if no one else that is going to conduct it knows how to. To create the appropriate sweep- Create a sweep between 20-60hz @0db. This will cover 41 different frequencies. Create this sweep in a timeframe of 1 min 22sec. This will allow each frequency to be measured exactly for 2 seconds before the next frequency is played. The goal of this test is NOT to see how loud you hit, but how consistent you hit. Because of this, it is advised to not have the stereo cranked in fear of damaging the subs. Have it attenuated in the low to mid 140s for safety sake or higher if you think the equipment can handle it. The measuring software needs NOT be on peak hold. Keep it set to realtime and when video recording, please use full 30fps.

Obviously your arrogance has certainly gotten the best of you. My questions were just a questions. They were extremely concise and you didn't answer them directly. I'll ask again. What have you accomplished in the realm of car audio? Have you had any sort of direct involvement in car audio competition?

Why the hassle bro ... you all just like the drama ??? Why don't you go to one of their shows and see for your self instead of going by "What somebody said" ... Like I said earlier and getting my rep points docked for it just only proved my point ... These moderators are only wanting to discredit this build, and never hearing it before passing judgement ... It doesn't matter if its the enclosure, the vehicle setup, amps, electrical, or the music / tones they play ... They have a winning record to prove their setup works and some of these "Bookworms" can't seem to understand the concept ... Instead of being rude to people, M5 needs to contact these designers / system builders and get the specs (if they give them to him) over the phone rather than causing all this drama ... This place is getting worse than DIYMA ... Moderators are suppost to keep drama from happening in these threads ... All they do is feed fuel to the fire ... Dissapointing ...

Going way off topic here but......... Everytime i see you avatar "The enD" I end up staring at it for like 10mins till i realize i have been lost in the sight of breats!!! ANYWAYS, back to our regularly scheduled programming!

Why should they give their specs ??

Some may recall the 2008 prototype "Monster" woofer that inspired features later found in several other drivers we make today. It's been shelved for some time... but a second revision of the prototype has been started on and we'll have some testing coming up. * Compounded smooth machining on the top plate with the NS v.2 style cross drilling. I am testing more with a top shorting ring on this design -- that is not necessarily something that will see production. * Again you see numerous smooth transitions on the back plate so we don't have excess steel where it's not needed (weight concerns). Also makes it look very interesting and unique. The goal is to replicate what I liked about the "Monster" prototype and to address some things I thought could be better. It will not actually be called Monster for legal reasons... but we call it that as a nick-name. This is a triple stack 250mm (10 inch) slug design like the Monster v.1 prototype... so it's very heavy and has a bunch of motor force behind it.

Just a simple load test comparison of the D3100 and a couple other Group 31 batteries. I am sure we should have done many things differently and I am sure we will hear about it, but people ask for comparison videos and here you go. Approx 500 amp load for 30 seconds. More videos to come.

No, they're on schedule. The expected date they will have them and start shipping with be the 10th of May.

Obviously your arrogance has certainly gotten the best of you. My questions were just a questions. They were extremely concise and you didn't answer them directly. I'll ask again. What have you accomplished in the realm of car audio? Have you had any sort of direct involvement in car audio competition? I've been asking the same questions for a long time now and haven't seen any results ... All i've seen him is being rude to people instead of helping when he should have just let Impious answer the questions ... Because all I've seen him do is copy what Impious has to say anyways ... I'm sorry guys, smart or not, he is really arragant to people ...

Who else has done this to disprove anyone before?? You sure want alot why does not M5 have to jump thru as many hoops to prove his point wich he has proven nothing with facts yey.... Again the 1st comment in the thread by M5 was, "Ouch, someone's math is confused. Very confused. That box will not sound good...I don't even need the Skar T/S to tell you that." Lets start there. Because measuring equipment is not capable of a subjective response. It is what it is not what someone thinks it is. Seems like a simple way to prove someone wrong to me. No.... Again the 1st comment in the thread by M5 was, "Ouch, someone's math is confused. Very confused. That box will not sound good...I don't even need the Skar T/S to tell you that." He has yet to prove why the math was wrong...

Why the hassle bro ... you all just like the drama ??? Why don't you go to one of their shows and see for your self instead of going by "What somebody said" ... Like I said earlier and getting my rep points docked for it just only proved my point ... These moderators are only wanting to discredit this build, and never hearing it before passing judgement ... It doesn't matter if its the enclosure, the vehicle setup, amps, electrical, or the music / tones they play ... They have a winning record to prove their setup works and some of these "Bookworms" can't seem to understand the concept ... Instead of being rude to people, M5 needs to contact these designers / system builders and get the specs (if they give them to him) over the phone rather than causing all this drama ... This place is getting worse than DIYMA ... Moderators are suppost to keep drama from happening in these threads ... All they do is feed fuel to the fire ... Dissapointing ... Me personally I don't care what this car sounds like. I just don't see anything from either sides. I am sick of everytime I log onto this site I see a new post in a couple of these threads. SSA is the best audio site period. We do not need this here.

One thing I have to add is I remember on this forum when people always said there are too many factors in an install to determine anything from pictures or graphs or speculation. Cant this be one of those times where so many factors played a role that basic math had to be added or subtracted some just to get the enclosure they got with the performance they wanted. Im just saying, no emotions used at all in my post

So a more accurate response curve can be made, and they will finally realize that snake oil and fairy dust does not make an enclosure sound good.

These guys came across something with this enclosure that works for them in competition ... and they are winning !!! If I was them, I would not give exact specs to their design either ... They aparently have a winning edge with this design. If they give their "TRUE" secrets to their design, then someone will come along, read their designs, and come up with something better and beat them at their own game ... Its not a question if they "went by the book to build this" ... You all are wanting to exploit their tricks of the trade to see if they are cheating, or someone in your competition camp is building something to compete in their class and is wanting the upper hand in competition ... I congratulate them for coming up with something "out of the ordinary" and kicking ASS with it ... Last time, as I recall in competition, thats how and why you play the game ... To WIN ...

Asking for credentials on the internet is just like going into a shop to have some work done. You want to know what that shop is capable of doing and if they have experience in doing the work you want. They don't give out personal information. As shop that refuses to let you see past work and experience is a shop I'll never visit. A person that refuses to prove his/her experience on the internet is a person that I will not take any advice from. I really like how M5 is sidestepping the questions. I really like how others are pretty much taking up for him. But.... I don't care is there is a whole city that refers me to one certain shop, or person, if I can't see the past experience I won't do business there. And that is a fact of life.

Have you ever stopped to think that telling about who he is, what he has done, accomplishments, etc will not help him at all here? Throwing a bunch of personal information into a public forum isn't always the best idea and people can dig that up years from now and use it in ways it wasn't intended for. That being said, you may want to rethink what ///M5 brings to the table. If you don't like the answers you get, ask the question a different way. You may even realize ///M5 knows something and hell, you may even realize that you can learn something from him even though you don't look at things the same way, you could still learn something. Just because whatever something does now works fine/great/fantastic does not mean there isn't a better way to do it. Listening and discussing the topic at hand like some reasonable people certainly can not hurt. If this topic doesn't stay on track about box design, you may get a small vacation from here. You are warned.

Well, I had a long reply started and then my laptop shut down because of the piece of shit replacement power adapter my wife bought I'm tired and need to go to bed. So, just a couple quick comments; I don't know what article you read, but the simple explanation is that you misinterpreted the information and/or didn't understand it. My prior comment on sealed enclosures is indisputably accurate. Much of your statements are easily demonstrated as incorrect. It's easy to demonstrate that a ported enclosure can have a higher peak output than sealed in "a perfect world", there are dozens of situations and circumstances where a ported enclosure is a better suited option than sealed, and there are multiple advantages to ported enclosures over sealed enclosures. On the flip side, there are also examples where a sealed enclosure is a better suited option and multiple advantages to sealed enclosures. Neither is "the best" in all possible regards and all possible situations and circumstances. To state sealed is simply "the best" is nothing but an ill informed statement. It simply demonstrates a lack of understanding of the applicable theories. Which is part of the reason I responded to the sealed enclosure comment to begin with. As I stated in the last thread, it seems as though most of the "anti-theory" crowd simply doesn't fundamentally understand the theory to begin with, which is one of the main sources of conflict. Your statements simply further demonstrate that point. Google "Argument from Authority" and why it's logically flawed.

Lol, nice try. Best? Best for what...and perfect world? Come on, stop making up stuff. Not at all a correct interpretation. Not an applicable argument. You are stating something that defies math, show me where my assumptions are wrong. Try understanding it instead of quoting it, this whole discussion would be easier. No one said to trust a computer program, but math and science. I don't care if you do it by hand as long as you take into account the true variables modeling will not lie. This is beyond this discussion though and not pertinent. This thread was made to continue a discussion on why a certain box that someone pushed someone to design and build wasn't the best solution for his goals. It wasn't said that it wouldn't be loud, that it wouldn't work at all, but that there was a better way to do it. It sure seems to me that isn't what you want to talk about now which surely leads me to conclusions that I hope one of you hops on and proves wrong.

Impious already answered nearly everything you asked Alan, but there is one other thing to clarify. It does not defy Physics not even close. Guess how GM designed that car? That's right, by modeling it in the virtual world. They then verified their model using modal analysis and transfer path analysis to determine if the acoustic model that they had created was satisfactory and did what they had designed it to. This includes the full acoustic response of not only the stereo but the car interacting with the world as well. Obviously with any model some assumptions are made, but the trick is to manage the variables such that the outcome is appropriate. If it didn't defy Physics for GM then I am pretty sure it didn't for the box design in question. How would that add credibility? Are you implying you'll believe some idiot who spouts incorrect BS because he has a history that includes winning something? How about the opposite, what if I said I've never installed a car stereo but I did all the model verification for GM on their car. Obviously you are a bit short cited in your whole thought on this process if you truly think it has to be limited to car audio, or to even think that is what is necessary to be relevant. Either way, credibility on the internet should never come from citing your experiences but instead expressing them and backing them up with logic and thought which is exactly why I thought Big Boi made this thread as someone wanted to share that. I find it disgusting when people want to live on their reputation but don't actually bring any game to the table, hopefully that isn't happening here or being implied that it is a good thing. As for your point, it is a good one though as so far the credibility of the ultra-defensive Malibu'ers happens to be completely subjective. Subjective & emotional responses do not paint a pretty picture. To get this back on topic and answer what you should have been asking, there are some rather simple things here to understand: Box design, which isn't particularly hard and the understanding of transfer functions which is more difficult, but just rudimentary Physics and not rocket science. If you think there is some magic voodoo or something else as well, then lets hear it.

Sorry, I know this isn't "on topic" but couldn't let it go. There is absolutely nothing in any theory that states or indicates sealed enclosures are "the best hands down". There is no theory which indicates sealed enclosures are always the best option, that they are better in every regard than any other enclosure type, or that they are the best enclosure regardless of goals or circumstances.

I'll give it a shot It changes the game....somewhat, depending on what game is being played. If one were designing an enclosure to maximize SPL at a specific frequency or frequency region then yes, some of those details are important as the end result is ultimately determined by the highest number on the meter. To do that you are best served by knowing as many of the little nuances of the vehicle as you can. Some of them will help determine the enclosure design, others will not. For example, would you design the enclosure differently if having the glove box open increases the SPL measured at a specific location at a specific frequency by .5db? Probably not. The enclosure design would majorly be the same, you would just make sure to have the glove box open during competition and metering. So that's irrelevant to the discussion of enclosure design. Would it be helpful to know something like the peak frequency of the vehicle with the enclosure in place? Sure, if strictly achieving the highest peak SPL were the goal, as that would help determine appropriate tuning for that specific situation. On the other hand, not all of those little nuances make a difference in the region of performance M5 is referring to. I'm not going to go back and scour the other thread, I believe Malibu stated his goals were not numbers driven but rather a loud system with music and let the numbers fall where they may. In which case, will knowing that there is a .5db peak with the glove box open going to make a difference? No, it's not. It's not audible. It's irrelevant, in this particular aspect of the discussion. Even a 1.5db difference (for example) is pretty much irrelevant when discussing audible performance characteristics....which according to Malibu was the goal, and hence the goal the system would have been designed around. Is knowing the peak frequency of the cabin going to matter to the enclosure design? Maybe a minor part, but since we are more worried about the overall shape of the response rather than performance at a single specific frequency or narrow range of frequencies and we're not worried about the peak SPL there are going to be significantly more contributing factors than simply the peak frequency of the vehicle. So while Robin having experience with the Malibu I'm sure is beneficial in a system like Cricket's where achieving specific SPL targets is the goal, not all of that information is entirely relevant or driving factors to a system designed explicitly for playing music. For example (one example), does Robin have exact and highly detailed information about the complete transfer function of the vehicle with that specific wall installed? If not, then he's probably guesstimating just as much as M5. In short; just having information isn't as relevant as knowing what that information is and how applicable that knowledge is to the specific scenario. So the question is, what specific knowledge does Robin have that gives him special insight into the in-vehicle response of that (or any) particular enclosure in the Malibu. How "special" is that knowledge or the response of a Malibu that makes M5's (or anyone else with a fairly in-depth understanding of acoustics) assumptions completely invalid in the realm that we are discussing (which is not peak SPL at a single frequency or narrow bandwidth)? And I can emphatically state that this is false and with only a laypersons understanding of physics. With enough information and a properly constructed model, it would be entirely possible to fairly accurately predict the in-vehicle performance of any enclosure (or speaker) in any vehicle. Any arrangement, any alignment, any speakers, any power level, etc. It would be able to be predicted with enough accurate information and an accurate model. The problem is, this would be extremely difficult (but not entirely impossible). And that's the the moral of the story. It's the technical difficultly, not the lack of ability, that prohibits someone from doing it. If it were due to a lack of ability then it would be properly classified as supernatural and defying the natural laws of physics. But it's not, it's the difficulty in such a task that makes it prohibitive. Additionally, without enough information, a proper model or a proper understanding of all of the physics involved it's also sometimes difficult to pinpoint a specific reason of why a specific result is achieved. It's a lack of knowledge, not a lack of the physics to be able to describe such an event. It's an issue of comprehension of the event, not a lack of capability for physics to describe the event. In short; Physics can describe it. It's not miraculous, supernatural or outside of the realm of physics. There may be limits to available information, appropriate models or any one individual's understanding.....but because someone can't immediately describe an event with physics it doesn't mean that it falls outside of the realm of physics and can be classified as supernatural.

What the fuck is this, high school? Seriously. You all need to get some lives. Trolls come over here and ruffle some feathers and then the "members" turn around and do the same damn thing. That just makes everything better doesn't it. Are there any intelligent young people left anymore? It doesn't matter where you are from, how big your score is, how big your muscles are or how many bitches you fucked. . . . Get over it. And the next dumb ass who wants to start drama, whether funny or not, will be shown the door. If you people want to act like children go play in the fucking playground.

Hmm didn't seem to be a joke when people tell you to f you and suck balls lol. MECA doesnt organize in Florida much so we dont run it. We do Iasca/DBdrag. I would love to see that build 2 18's on 7 k do below 30 hz. Is there a vid or anything i can check out?? I guess you didnt get neon what he was saying is Meca is bullshit down here no one hardly burps any more. Its all about sustainable numbers on music. It really pushes a system think thats why i like it. MAN, i don't know what to say but. YOU ARE RIGHT. I 1000% feel what you are saying. I competed half-way thru the 2010 season leading MECA before i dropped out with the highest points... Pointless info now. Burping is not where i'm best at. But also, it's not enjoyable for daily. My current build is not straight burp, but a deadly beater, hopefully. That build is done by TeamRamrod, check out his Astro thread here on SSA. That score was also done with vehicle OFF because engine is damaged at time of reading. My current build is in a Scion tC, yes u read that right. 4 18s, 20kw, 18v electrical. The build just started but hopefully by june it'll be done.

I wasnt able to view the link but I have seen homemade ring terminals. After discovering Impulse Electronics cheap prices I decided buying them is worthwhile.

Who else has done this to disprove anyone before?? You sure want alot why does not M5 have to jump thru as many hoops to prove his point wich he has proven nothing with facts yey.... Again the 1st comment in the thread by M5 was, "Ouch, someone's math is confused. Very confused. That box will not sound good...I don't even need the Skar T/S to tell you that." Lets start there. Because measuring equipment is not capable of a subjective response. It is what it is not what someone thinks it is. Seems like a simple way to prove someone wrong to me. No.... Again the 1st comment in the thread by M5 was, "Ouch, someone's math is confused. Very confused. That box will not sound good...I don't even need the Skar T/S to tell you that." He has yet to prove why the math was wrong... Seems simple enough to me. If it is somewhat flat, what can he say? The results will not be emotional, they will be measured. My question is not emotional at all i want him to back why the math was wrong. All he saw were pics that the OP put up. No one will address this. Again the 1st comment in the thread by M5 was, "Ouch, someone's math is confused. Very confused. That box will not sound good...I don't even need the Skar T/S to tell you that." How??

Who else has done this to disprove anyone before?? You sure want alot why does not M5 have to jump thru as many hoops to prove his point wich he has proven nothing with facts yey.... Again the 1st comment in the thread by M5 was, "Ouch, someone's math is confused. Very confused. That box will not sound good...I don't even need the Skar T/S to tell you that." Lets start there.

M5 started off by saying someones math was wrong very wrong. No proof. Just because HE says. That's just like me telling you Your box will sound like crap without any questions about it. But have you or anyone else proved him wrong?

M5 started off by saying someones math was wrong very wrong. No proof. Just because HE says. That's just like me telling you Your box will sound like crap without any questions about it.

I still haven't seen proof that this thing SOUNDS good. There have been posted term-lab numbers. I have not seen a response curve or term-lab readings at different frequencies. Everyone is asking ///M5 of proof on why it will not sound good but where is the proof that it does? Stop this "I sat in the malibu and it sounds awesome" shit.

There is nothing special about their 4th order bandpass, ///M5 is asking them to prove there is something unique about it, and they cannot come up with anything. @Godsmack: Its called actual experience in building on a daily basis. This seems what its about people want to pick there brains. No one ever said there was anything special. M5's 1st post in the build log was... "Ouch, someone's math is confused. Very confused. That box will not sound good...I don't even need the Skar T/S to tell you that." He (M5) needs to prove as to why. I don't want to hear physics and acoustics because the build is done. In fact he was going off a graph made by another "tech team" member So a more accurate response curve can be made, and they will finally realize that snake oil and fairy dust does not make an enclosure sound good. Why a more accurate curve need to be made now after the build is done and completed M5 says he has the same assumptions as designer/builder. He shouldn't need specs he should post his own specs with his own design showing why its better. Not just say it. "Ouch, someone's math is confused. Very confused. That box will not sound good...I don't even need the Skar T/S to tell you that." No education no proof no facts there just an opinion. also you guys yell keep it on topic?? there are several posts made here that dont even involve the topic including people making "joke post" over in the Skar audio section.........

So a more accurate response curve can be made, and they will finally realize that snake oil and fairy dust does not make an enclosure sound good. They are winning competitions, not really needing to know if their design works or sounds good, and you are wanting to know what brand of snake oil and fairy dust they used ??? You docked me 2 rep points and this is all you can come up with Duran ??? Sounds like you are the one trying to discredit their build ... not M5 ...

These guys came across something with this enclosure that works for them in competition ... and they are winning !!! If I was them, I would not give exact specs to their design either ... They aparently have a winning edge with this design. If they give their "TRUE" secrets to their design, then someone will come along, read their designs, and come up with something better and beat them at their own game ... Its not a question if they "went by the book to build this" ... You all are wanting to exploit their tricks of the trade to see if they are cheating, or someone in your competition camp is building something to compete in their class and is wanting the upper hand in competition ... I congratulate them for coming up with something "out of the ordinary" and kicking ASS with it ... Last time, as I recall in competition, thats how and why you play the game ... To WIN ... There is nothing special about their 4th order bandpass, ///M5 is asking them to prove there is something unique about it, and they cannot come up with anything.

Shizzzon, This may be one of your best posts yet. I think the main question in this thread (at least to me) isn't so much a 'why are you challenging a world record box designer's ideas?' as much as it is a 'what makes this box design so amazing, with all the graphic scientific equasions showing that it should not in a normal environment work this way? And if the graphs are incorrect, or the design differs from what the graph shows, then what changes were made to create these results?' J

Have you ever stopped to think that telling about who he is, what he has done, accomplishments, etc will not help him at all here? Throwing a bunch of personal information into a public forum isn't always the best idea and people can dig that up years from now and use it in ways it wasn't intended for. That being said, you may want to rethink what ///M5 brings to the table. If you don't like the answers you get, ask the question a different way. You may even realize ///M5 knows something and hell, you may even realize that you can learn something from him even though you don't look at things the same way, you could still learn something. Just because whatever something does now works fine/great/fantastic does not mean there isn't a better way to do it. Listening and discussing the topic at hand like some reasonable people certainly can not hurt. If this topic doesn't stay on track about box design, you may get a small vacation from here. You are warned. first off, you can take your warning and go shove it. thats the way i feel. if you are going to "warn" me to watch myself and stay on topic when its your own mods that drop this into the off topic realm constantly by dodging questions, insulting florida, etc, then.. well. you sir, are a fail. now then, the reason credentials were asked for is because, once again, thus far, he has posted a graph, and said it wont work. the people that built it are the authority at the moment... they hold various titles, world records, more successful design/builds than you can count, and operate a serious business pertaining to box design and building. i trust their opinion over someone that so far has no credit to his name, and remains in my eyes a computer jockey that uses the same programs anyone else can use to get a rough estimate of what boxes will sound like in a perfect world, or with a basic generalized "vehicle acoustic response" estimate. if thats all he's got, then we really dont have to continue this discussion. im fine with you locking it to be honest, and if that is to include my banning from this forum, fine. point proven.

I'll read that later, but you should as well as it definitely won't be proving that math isn't valid.

I love it! I understand your techniques completely! I would love performance and quality over quantity! I am eying the 150.. Sounds perfect for all I need! Soon.. Waiting on paychecks so I can repair other misc. items on my car. Can you create a VCM for my car? Or can you show me how make my own? Thanks! reason for the VCM is that, my car idles really low, and I've been trying to fix that, but I believe it is vacuum related and I'm looking at diagrams for it. Sits around, 600RPM at idle, and my voltage sits just above 12 volts, so roughly 12.5 volts? And once I bring it to 1,100RPM, roughly charging at 14.8 or so. Thanks again Sir Rob!

2 SA-8's? You won't need more than 1.8 cubes if at all

and at this point, credibility is all that matters. you continue to say science and math, but neither of those are changing the results... the results have real life, 100%, factual proved you wrong. if you have followed all applications of math and science perfectly (which i know you havent, because there is more to this scenario than you have access to), then yes, it has in fact proven math and science wrong. outside of that... i dont think i have much else to say here.

I have come to a conclusion and I know my math is correct with it. We are not going to get any where with this topic, or any other topic. M5 and his nuthuggers are going to keep sidestepping questions. They will not ever answer, honestly, any of the questions asked. Knowing the math does not mean shit. Reality is where is is at. the reality is the build is done, the build sounds great, and the build is kicking ass. You cannot defeat reality with bits and pieces of paper that say it won't work for whatever reasoning. Period. With that being said, and with all the other drama that has been going on with this one build, I hope to fuck I get banned from this forum. Nothing against the owners of it, I have respect for them, but if a tech team such as this exists here, I'd much rather go somewhere else. Their (tech team) opinions are pretty much like SMD and other shit holes like that. If you don't agree with them, you're a piece of crap. If I wanted that kind of crap I would go back to SMD. I believe the owners need to tighten the noose on the admin around here. In all honesty they are nothing but a bunch of nuthuggers and ass kissers. They got butthurt and raped on more than one occasion and can't do a damned thing about it. Until they can suck it up and get rid of their pride for once, they will be unable to answer the questions at hand. I was going to write a reply to something Shizzon said, but, I have respect for him. Why? Hell I don't know, maybe credibility. That is something I don't see the band "M5 and the nutthuggers" having one bit of. So fuck it, fuck the tech team, fuck the nutthuggers. Ban me, please. It will give me a reason to flame your asses on each and every other pucking forum I see you on. I'm out

My point exactly ... Thank you M5 for getting everyone fired up over nothing (again)... Your leadership is astonishing ...

By your own reasoning then the party that sought to disprove the designer/builder should " show" his evidence why..................... Again the 1st comment in the thread by M5 was, "Ouch, someone's math is confused. Very confused. That box will not sound good...I don't even need the Skar T/S to tell you that."