Impious

If the amplifier has flat frequency response, it will output the same amount of power across it's entire bandwidth. If the amplifier produces more power at higher frequencies, that means those frequencies would be louder.....that would be bad.

IMHO right now the MS-8 is a no-brainer unless you are budget-limited and/or are simply unwilling to use an auto-tune. You could probably forget about needing a microphone and RoomEQ as the MS-8 handles all of that internally and does the adjustments for you in what has been reported as a more effective and better sounding manor than any other car audio processor on the market and better than most have been able to manage with a measurement setup and months of manual tuning. Many people have exchanged their BitOne for an MS-8 with no regrets. The downside of the MS-8 is that it has no digital input, the BitOne does. But the MS-8 has balanced differential inputs (I believe) so it should still be silent. This probably sounds like a sales pitch for the MS-8, but from all reports it can do in 5 minutes equal to or better than experienced and knowledgeable users can manage in weeks or months of manual tuning, and the BitOne and 360.2 would both require manual tuning. The fellas at JBL are very smart cookies to boot, so I believe the hype. The release of the unit actually sort of sucks for me as the resale value of H701's are probably going to take a large hit as a result.....it feels sort of like the real estate crash all over again However, if you really want a measurement setup just to play with or decide to go a route other than the MS-8, there are a couple of things to consider. First, to have an accurate setup you would need to purchase a calibrated mic or have your mic calibrated. Uncalibrated mics are still useful for comparisons, but for absolute measurements calibration would need done. Second the quality of the mic preamp/etc will affect the measurements. Frequency response anomalies in the measurement electronics will affect the resultant measurements. If you want to go with a full MLS setup that measures things such impulse response as well, then you need to make sure that the signal input/output you are using have a constant timing.....I don't know the actual terminology for this, but when transmitting and recording some preamps/soundcards will have varying time delays which makes the measurements useless. You will also want to read up on and learn about audio measurements if you don't already have a solid understanding. Extracting truly meaningful data really is not as simple as sticking a mic in the car and turning on the system. Even the basics of gating the measurements, different measurement techniques, different types of measurements, so on and so forth, can create large differences in the meaningfulness or comparability of data and ultimately the necessary system adjustments and resultant sound. This is why I think the MS-8 is a no-brainer.....it takes all of this work out of the hands of the end-user and does it all internally in about 5 minutes. I've spent hours reading about system measurements and have only a very basic understanding of the differences, various considerations and ideologies, etc. I myself have a M-Audio MobilePre microphone preamp and (uncalibrated) Dayton Mic. I also have HOLMimpulse downloaded, but have yet to make the time to actually try to take any meaningful measurements with the system.

I'm not familiar with the rear deck of a '99 Altima. In one of my prior installs in an older car I owned at the time, the fabric and cardboard material of the rear deck covered the speaker holes for the rear speakers (the cardboard was perforated). Removing the material from covering the speaker hole made a significant difference. To keep it from looking hideous I just used some old 6x9 mesh grills that I had.

At what level of distortion was this measurement taken?

Sean seems far more familiar with those drivers than myself. 400hz has a wavelength of 33.75", so beaming shouldn't be an issue over that bandwidth. If I haven't posted it already, you can figure out the inductive lowpass effects with the formula; f = Re/(2*Pi*Le) *Le in Henries (it's listed in T/S as millhenries, so you'll have to convert it before working the formula) Ideally this would be 1 octave above your intended crossover frequency. The other thing I would look at is a frequency response and impedance graph. A large peak in the response and a ripple in the impedance curve can indicate cone break-up at that frequency, which would want to be avoided. Other than that......as long as it plays high enough for your needs, it should play lower than your needs since low frequency performance will be improved over a 10", so you should be good to go. And really, the increased cone area will reduce the required excursion for a given output level, so distortion at various listening levels should be lower with the 12" than a 10"

You've been able to do that without issue for a couple decades. I know I've been doing it for over a decade without a single issue. Power cable induced noise is an old wives tale in car audio

Really, just from what you've said, I would guess that the article you read was filled with techno-babble bullshit. It sounds like they were taking some general facts and extrapolating out useless or possibly incorrect theories. Stereophile'ish, for lack of a better word. Silver has less resistance than copper, no doubt about it. And while I haven't done any mathematics at all, this is a pure guesstimation, I would have a hard time imagining the silver tinning having less resistance than the copper wire of comparatively much greater thickness. Skin effect is real, and wire does have group delay. However, within the audible spectrum and with speaker wire the length we use in car audio (and in most homes), both of these issues can be completely ignored. The change in speaker wire "performance" as a result of these two items within the 20hz - 20khz bandwidth is well below the threshold of audibility. We are talking about hundredths of a decibel and nanoseconds. Nothing to concern yourself with. Now if we were talking RF frequencies, then it's something to consider. Nobody can hear the difference, but many people like to trick themselves into believing the can so they can justify either 1) spending more on speaker cable than most spend on a new car, or 2) to justify their other closely held but largely unfounded beliefs. It's a little like religion, really.....a loss of rational thinking so that irrational thinking can attempt to be justified. Also, skin effect only affects AC not DC. So no worries with your power/ground cables. This is actually a long standing debate. Some people swear by UTP (unshielded twisted pair), including the likes of Richard Clark.......others swear by shielded cable. This and amplifier sonics are probably the two most hotly debated topics.

stefanhinote askes good questions and I would agree with his premise. All things equal, and assuming you had adequate volume for each option, I would chose to go the route of the X's out of those two options. Nearly double the displacement capabilities gives that option an advantage in potential output capabilities.

Considering how many companies will not sell a recone kit to the end user, I supposed you could be happy that's even an option they offer This is my attempt at optimism

You need to get out more OP: Are you looking to buy new, used, ebay, authorized dealer? What are you trying to power?

Where has this been proven? And don't link me to a clamp test, those prove nothing.

www.ebay.com www.craigslist.com And glance through the classifieds of the various forums. Should be pretty easy for you to get a gauge on pricing.

I'm not sure if I exactly understand your question regarding "RMS vs surface area", since you mention choosing between multiple subs compared to a single driver but not many specifics to that question. But, more cone area means more SPL for a given excursion level, and less excursion for a given output level keeping the driver further within it's linear range thus decreasing distortion. There are some benefits to distributing the power between more than one motor as far as power compression is concerned (all things equal), but unless you are into SPL competitions and trying to squeeze every last decibel out you are probably better off focusing on cone area than power handling. Alternator upgrades are more related to how much power your amplifier is using than the power handling of the subwoofers. If you have a 1600w amplifier and you plan on using all 1600 watts, then electrical upgrades depend on how well your current electrical system handles that load and not the power handling of the subwoofers or how that power handling is distributed among multiple amplifiers.

Avionixx was the house brand for an electronics buildhouse called Value Electronics. Elemental Designs distributed/sold the Avionixx amplifiers back in the '04 - '05 range, until eD began offering their own line of amplifiers. Value Electronics was also the buildhouse for those early Elemental Designs amplifiers. Avionixx was a hot name on the internet until eD stopped carrying them in favor of their own branded amplifiers....Avionixx switched to a couple different resellers but I don't think it every really had the momentum it did when they are being pushed by eD. They weren't bad amplifiers. They're no Sinfoni, but no Pyramid either. Pretty middle of the road. I hadn't even realized they were still around until this thread, searching google I see they still have an active website. Interesting. Concept has been around for a while as well. They used to have some higher powered cheaper amplifiers that were all the rage back in the '03 - '05 time frame. The subwoofers weren't overly popular, however they did offer one interesting line. I believe the CSP line was design/built by RE (which means it was probably designed by Scott, the same Scott who now owns Fi ). I believe it used an XBL^2 motor. The RE Destroyers that were popular a couple years ago used the CSP motor. If your subwoofer is a CSP, it might be a pretty decent subwoofer.

I would rather have slower traffic with intelligent, helpful threads than the 10 posts-per-minute of nonsense and jackassery that some of the other forums have.

Where are you from in Indiana?

I can't answer why, but the parameters listed on Db-r's page are completely different than those on Sundown's page. I'm not up to speed on all of the possible Nightshade revisions. Anyways, an extra stiff suspension would mean Cms decreased. This decrease in Cms would increase Fs, increase Qts and decrease Vas. That's assuming everything else remained constant. The reason for the super small enclosure suggestions is due to the extremely low Vas in the T/S parameters you are using. That Vas is absurdly small for an 18" driver.

A couple decades ago, yes. With today's technology, no.

Awesome steering wheel cover. Very masculine.

Or the JBL MS8

Per Vance Dickason in The Loudspeaker Design Cookbook, the following are measured parameters for a 6.5" Peerless woofer; Pre-Break In (i.e. out of the box) Fs: 49.9hz Qms: 2.11 Qes: 0.44 Qts: 0.37 Vas: 16.8L Post-Break In (12hrs @ 25hz, unspecified power) Fs: 44.5hz Qms: 1.97 Qes: 0.39 Qts: 0.33 Vas: 21.6L However, enclosure requirements/performance will be nearly identical since the Fs/Qts ratio stays virtually the same even though there's a decent % variance in some of the parameters. On that point, published T/S parameters are either taken from a single driver or an average from a sample batch. The actual T/S parameters for two different drivers from the same product line can vary by as much as 10% or more (I believe most manufacturers consider a variation of 10% to be within tolerance), some have a significant difference in T/S parameters if QC is poor. So really, the difference in pre- and post-break in T/S aren't any greater than one might experience between two drivers as a result of production variances. Is "break in" a myth? No, not really. As indicated, you can clearly and easily show a measurable difference in parameters. Is there going to be a readily apparent audible difference? With your typical driver....probably not. The resultant changes in response are going to be virtually inaudible. On a high powered SPL sub with a ridiculously stiff suspension routinely driven to it's mechanical limits, results may be a little different. The variance would probably be enough for a meter to pick up (tenths of a decibel), so it may matter in that particular arena. Do you need to ascribe a particular time period for "break-in"? No. Just plug it in and play it like you normally would. If you really want to break in your driver, playing it at a low level for some arbitrary time period is counterproductive. The best way to effectively break in a driver is to play it free air at a high excursion level for a couple hours. It will be sufficiently "broken in" after that.

If you are trying to use LLP on your door, I personally would attach the foam side to the metal of the door (what that plastic panel attaches to) not to the plastic door panel. You will want to completely seal the door.

Thanks. Do they have website? www.fixmyspeaker.com Though, again, while you might have an operation driver you won't have an original W6v2. Performance could different significantly depending on what parts are used.

I tried several times and couldn't get the wire tight enough to appease me. Also, the Kompression nut was taller than the block itself so when trying to tighten/loosen to the Kompression fitting it would scrape and get caught on the bottom plate, which just added frustration and irritation when already pissed off about not getting the wire seated properly. This was a 1/0ga unfused distro block. Overall it was just a nightmare to use, but I guess the wire seating problem could have been related to the damn nut issue (wire wiggling around when trying to fight with the nut).

Just curious; Since I'm assuming this would be more expensive than the drivers in your current line-up, what benefits does this arrangement provide to the end user? Better thermal performance (with the shorting ring/heatsink & side gaps) and higher motor force than the current drivers? I would foresee a lot of these drivers being inverted EDIT: I also think you should build a higher Q underhung version for us SQ guys Just stick those tall towers on top of the Neo instead of under it and shorten/lower the coil some