altoncustomtech

I'll have to figure out a good way to do that test through the speakers. I tried it through a crappy set of headphones and except for the lower frequencies got the results I expected to see from the results I've seen from my annual hearing test at work. That's a great website though because I can see a person using that to get a reference for where the peaks and valleys are in the response of their entire system and using that information to tailor the EQ to their ears in that fashion. Nice. Looks like I need to find my 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable and give this a try in the truck, full ranges first. The Dayton's you have on order are better than any mid I've ever seen in a comp set under $2k. Still not my favorite driver, but nonetheless that holds true. Once you have your ears trained though you will better be able to determine what you like and what is lacking and then either adjust drivers or settings accordingly. One key is to separate everything out and listen. I'm glad to hear they're a decent driver. You say they're not your favorite driver, out of idle curiosity what is? Also, for the end goal of using a pair of 8" drivers for dedicated midbass I have been looking, reading, and trying to learn what would be a good fit for it. The one driver that keeps popping up as a decent candidate is the Dayton RSS210HO. With it's "low distortion" motor, fair XMAX and other such considerations it seems like a fair candidate to me. I was wondering what your thoughts on that are. Great midbass is really nice and I know it's not terribly easy to achieve but I feel that by the time I'm through with all the changes with the full ranges and the output the XCON is capable of that it's going to take more than the 6.5's I have now, or even the Dayton RS180's to keep up. I thought maybe the RSS210's or something like them would fit the bill.

Awesome. I feel much better about the paradigm now, lol. I would have done all this listening and stuff after getting the amp in and the component set active but I'm pretty well convinced I'll never get the response I want from the components. After connecting the mids directly to the amp and tuning them like I would if everything was active and still not being able to get the response I'm looking for I just can't imagine any other conclusion to come to about them. It kinda felt like cheating just going straight to the full ranges and stuff, lol.

Wow, that wasn't what I was expecting at all, lol. I was expecting a more of a "you're wasting your time", "you're not doing it right, spend more time listening" post or something of the like. I probably am wasting a little time but I still can't drive the damn thing so I may as well make the most of the audio, lol. I've actually gone through and set the EQ to my liking on each set of drivers. I wrote my notes and did the comparison that way specifically as a drop in comparison. I figured that was more fair because anyone else who's reading this and tries them out may not have the processing power, experience to use it (not that I really do), same application in mind, or whatever the difference may be. Maybe I was thinking wrong but that's why I figured it would be a little more fair as it was written. However, I was able to get the Faital's tamed down to where they sounded quite beautiful but never could get them on the "warmer" side. They remained very sterile or cold sounding. They remind me of a Katana sword, cold like the steel, accurate and deadly, lol. It's a little surprising how much they remind me of a horn driver though. For you, me, Brad, and others here the Aura's would need a tweeter but a little work on the EQ and they weren't that bad and they sure would make the majority of people very happy with their response. Not nearly as bad as I thought they would be with a flat EQ though and much better than when I tested them on my desk. Yes the Fountek's were definitely the winners in that little group but I still can't imagine the FR89. The FE85 is so detailed, crisp and neutral sounding I still find myself wanting to be trying song after song after song to listen to them more and more. I understood from reading other's comments and reviews on the Fountek 3" full range drivers that they were great little drivers. After playing with them and having the processing to make adjustments for TA, crossovers, and EQ all right at my fingertips and experiencing it for myself I just can't imagine it getting better. I am in the process now of running the RCA's and speaker wire for the Solid 2 and getting the material I need to get it mounted above the 125.2 because now I HAVE to see what the addition of a dedicated midbass driver will do for it. I'm really excited to see where it can go from here and while I know the mids from the components aren't the best option their best response was their midbass response. I've got some Dayton RS180-4's coming (still no hurry at all) and while I'm working on dialing in the system I'll also be working on a permanent installation for the full ranges. My plans there are to mount them to the sail panel at the front of the door panels but I'm going to build them so the baffles are removable that way I can change drivers (like going from the FE85 to the FR89) without having to do major work to the pods that will be built there. Then eventually I will build an enclosure that will fit in the doors and go to an 8" midbass. That's likely a good ways off before I get anywhere near that point though.

Happy Birthday!!!

Most all HU's have a standard wire color code. Typically the RED wire on the HU harness is the key switched/accessory 12v power wire, the YELLOW wire is the constant/battery 12v wire. The Yellow wire is the main power wire for the HU and must be connected to a wire that provides 12v at all times to prevent the HU from losing settings. Think of it like an amplifier, the BLACK and YELLOW wires are the negative and positive power terminals and the RED wire is the remote turn on wire. Make sure your wires are connected to the vehicle wiring accordingly and you should be golden. I hate it when people cut those factory harness connectors off. Dumb bastards.

Well, I've put several hours of listening time on each of the three full rangers to get a feel for them in the truck. I'm glad I did too as the difference it made in the way the Faital's sounded just going from that little amp on the desk to sitting on the dash in the truck powered by the 125.2 with the processing of the Clarion completely changed the way they sounded and for the good. Since it made that big of a difference on them I spent several hours listening to them each individually on the same tracks with the same EQ, gain and crossover settings (after playing around a little) and placement for as fair a direct swap comparison as possible and took notes. Here's a compilation of those notes. Faital Pro 3FE25: These things are unrealistically loud for their size. The little bastards made my ears ring severely after a few bouts of high volume listening. They are however SUPER detailed, actually to the point of making it a little bit of a problem because I could barely listen to some of the digital music on my iPhone. The little problems that arise from compression are heard with as much detail as the music. On songs that are compressed with a high quality compression tool it wasn't really noticeable at all, however on songs that are poorly done it's hard to even listen to them. Aside from that they are a very sterile and dry sounding set of speakers that like digital technology in general have no warmth. They do absolutely rock on output and while I kept finding myself wishing to hell I had the Solid 2 installed so I could have the 6.5's running midbass with them to help warm up the lower end of the spectrum their detail/accuracy, high end extension and overall sound make them a good choice for someone looking to do a full range/dedicated midbass setup to keep up with a big sub stage. They're the first full range speakers I've listened to that have "shimmer" on the top end like a decent tweeter does. I could EQ out the few problems I heard and have with their response except for that digital noise on badly compressed recordings. Aura NS3: These had the warmer sound I wished the Faital's would have had but at the cost of the loss of detail and the high end response. As a matter of fact I was able to take the crossover down to 80hz while I was testing them without them sounding too horribly stressed on most of the music which was kind of shocking. They did so well on the lower end they almost didn't need a larger midbass to help out but didn't blend well with the XCON trying to pick up the midbass. Everything I played on them sounded pretty damn good with the only real complaint seeming to be the missing detail and open airy/sterile sound the Faital's had provided. A good mix of the two would be ideal and little did I know they were waiting to get played with next. Fountek FE85: I'm still trying to wrap my head around the comments I've read several times about the FR89EX's being better than these. The FE85's have a warm and inviting sound with great detail and upper end response. I found myself listening to the same list of tracks over and over again and not really being able to find anything they didn't do very well. They have a measly 1.5mm XMAX and 12w RMS power handling and I know they had to be getting pushed to the limit but never showed any sign of it except on the busiest and hardest tracks. If I had the Solid 2 hooked up and the dedicated midbass of my 6.5's to help in that realm along with the time to tune it all in that it would easily sound better than the van. Just my opinions, thoughts and findings on three great little full range speakers. Each has definite merit to use in different applications and with a better enclosure, or overall better installation than what I gave them they could do much better I'm sure. I could see the Faital's being a good choice for guys who would like to go the route of a full range/dedicated midbass setup who are worried about it keeping up with a big, loud substage. Horns come to my mind when trying to think of something to compare them to. Loud and detailed to the point that it can be excruciating are traits they both seem to share, or at least in my limited experience with horns. The Aura's would just about need to be paired with a tweeter to get the best response in a system but they were no slouches. Lots of people could listen to them with little to no issues with the response. The Fountek's are winners though. I had never imagined something so simple could sound so good. Even without the 6.5's to supply the missing midbass punch the XCON and the FE85's still put on a very convincing performance and on a few acoustic and accapella tracks I would have sworn I was sitting in the room with the performers. If the FR89's really are "better" than the FE85's I can't wait to get a pair ordered, lol.

I second this recommendation.

It absolutely can and will. Trunks don't generally allow for great air transfer into the cabin, basically sealed. When you generate that kind of pressure in a trunk it's going to press on every surface and the weakest surface will flex more than the stronger ones. The cones and suspension on the 6x9's are considerably weaker than the steel of the trunk walls and anything else that happens to make up the construction of the trunk.

VERY nice review.

Thanks brother. Still need to get with you sometime on the front stage in your Olds.

I'll bet the Audison outperforms the Audiopipe in every way anyway. Don't even see it as a comparison. You went the right route in my opinion anyway.

My thoughts exactly.

Why couldn't he just use a 3.5mm to RCA into a miniDSP? He would at that point have processing, crossovers, EQ's, the works all in a very powerful and tiny little unit. Granted I'm still learning about the wonderful little device but I fail to see how that wouldn't be useful.

Interesting. Glad they got it figured out for future reference but definitely glad they got you taken care of. So, since you've had it back for a couple of days, how does it sound now?

Yes it's accurate, but also uber basic. A calculator like that doesn't account for port or driver displacement which means the tuning will be off if you simply plug in the numbers and go. You can figure for those if you know what they will be and yes they're not hard to calculate for but it also leaves room for a bigger possibility for mistakes. The RE calculator tries to account for all those things but misses the mark on several issues and can be just a little off or way off depending on several factors. So far I've found that the Torres calculator will account for driver displacement and port displacement accurately, adjust for changes you make on the fly, and is all around simpler and easier than doing it all by hand. Just my .02

There's a VERY easy way to set the SSF. Start by turning it all the way down and putting in a CD with test tones on it, no music. Start with something like 40hz and turn the volume up enough to get the sub moving. Now switch the tracks down one hertz at a time. As you near tuning you should see the sub moving less and less (while getting a little louder each time) then once you see the sub start moving a little more again you're a hertz or two below tuning. At this point go back and forth on the tracks and figure out which frequency the sub moves the LEAST and that is the tuning frequency of your enclosure. Now put on a track that is 3 to 5 hertz lower than your tuning frequency and turn it up enough to really get the sub moving good but without damaging it obviously. At this point you adjust the SSF up until you see the movement of the sub go down to at least half the amount it was when you started and your SSF is set with no guessing whether it's right or not. This is the exact same procedure that Nick (from Fi) has explained to many other people. It works and works very well.

Not sure which ones you found but the only one I've used that I would trust thus far is the Torres one. I have verified it's numbers by hand on quite a few occasions and it's always been very close. The RE Audio site calculator just sucks, as does most of the other online ones.

Okay, finally took the time to get the PR's turned around and properly installed. It looks WAY better this way, lol, as you can see by the pictures. Now it's time to get that Focal Solid 2 installed so I can start playing with things in the front actively. It looks as though I'm going to have to just go ahead and make it part of the rest of the amp rack. I still have LOTS of the stand offs I used to lift the 125.2 over the 1500 so I'm going to just do the same with the Focal. The difference being, due to it's miniscule size, is that I'm going to have to make a small frame for it to mount to that will then mount to the stand offs lifting and holding it above the 125.2. Then I'm just going to run the power down and connect it to the XP950 so all I have to run is the RCA's and speaker wires up to the front. Anyway, onto the pics of the enclosure, sub and PR's finally completely finished.

If I wasn't so damn busy at work and already behind helping a few other people with their designs I'd jump in there and help for sure. I did do a little math and 15x17x50 will gross 5.87cuft total so once you subtract port and sub displacements it would probably need to be another inch or so deeper than the 15" to keep a whole 5cuft NET but shouldn't require the entire 18 inches to do so. Hopefully someone like Bassink will see this and jump in and help.

Baskets are cheap, probably the cheapest part of the subwoofer assembly. I don't see how it would save you any money at all unless you were lucky enough to come across the motors used and in good shape. In your case I would imagine it would be cheaper and easier in the long run to just sell the DP's and buy the Wardens if you're wanting Wardens.

Beautiful.... Awesome that the wife doesn't want it to go. Could always save it for the boy, who's growing up SUPER fast, he'll be 16 and wanting to drive before you know it. It's been awhile since I've seen a picture of him, they just don't stay small long enough do they?!?!!??

What? Another PR setup? Awesome!!! The rebuilding of those subs is looking good man. Keep up the good work.

Wow, I'm kinda surprised there's not been any comments yet. I figured the geeks among us would find this stuff pretty kewl. Ah well, here's another one of my favorites and if you love Lego's you'll love this one as well. It's amazing just how accurate they stay to the art of Lego building with this demo. The way the characters move, the way all the vehicles, buildings, hell even the landscaping are made are true to the Lego form. That and a little Matrix scene mimicking make it a fun one to watch. http://archive.assembly.org/2003/combined-demo/legomania-by-doomsday

This is Second Reality, one of my all time favorites and the demo winner from the competition in 1993. Keep in mind the VERY first 60 to 66Mhz Pentium processors were released in March of '93. Most people were running 386 and 486 machines with 1 to 4Mb of RAM clocking in at 25, 33, and 50Mhz with no REAL graphics card power. http://archive.assembly.org/1993/pc-demo/second-reality-by-future-crew

I myself am more sure than Sean that you'll be misled a lot. The absolute worst place I've ever gone and heard tips, information, etc. related to car audio is a shop (next to the internet). The defining difference between them though is the difference between the shops whose personnel are stuck up, won't listen and think they're 100% right all the time and the shops with personnel who (whether they believe or do anything with the insight) can listen, comment & communicate, and are humble enough to admit they don't know it all. It's VERY apparent which places these are within a few minutes of walking into the shop and talking with someone. I have two such shops that I thoroughly enjoy visiting when I have the opportunity and they have the time to chat. We get into some great discussions and debates which have lasted hours on a few occasions, lol. In the end though it's all about making a profit and that is the driving force behind a lot of the less than stellar decisions that are made. Shops could take the time and knowledge to custom design and build every installation they do but in reality there's one customer to the hundreds or thousands that come in who would be interested in such an install AND has the money to pay for it. I don't condone the continuing of the bolt it in the factory location, use of cheap equipment and pre-fabbed enclosures, and "installation" that is typical of almost every shop but they would have a hard time staying in business if they didn't. I mean lets face it, most people are completely clueless to what really sounds and works good.