Hi guyz,

Just wondering a few things...

Which one plays best in the high range (70hz-125hz)?

Which one plays best in sealed?

Which one has the best SQ? As in decay, attack, etc...

Power delivery no object

Thanks,

Kelvin

PS: believe it would be the Icon but never know...

Just by what you have said im thinking you will like the icon better, but who knows.

If you give us some more info (budget, space, music you listen to, power, etc.) im sure we could direct you as to which sub to get better.

You shouldn't be looking at your subwoofer to play 70-125hz. You should be looking at your midbass speakers.

Hi guyz,

Just wondering a few things...

Which one plays best in the high range (70hz-125hz)?

Which one plays best in sealed?

Which one has the best SQ? As in decay, attack, etc...

Power delivery no object

Thanks,

Kelvin

PS: believe it would be the Icon but never know...

Hey Kelvin,

I agree with John, the mid-bass' should be covering the majority of that range. Both drivers will play flat up into 100hz or so, but I would not suggest going much higher (see John's post). Both drivers will sound great in a sealed box, they are very different in their design. One being a copper coil that loves the lowest notes, the other being an aluminum coil with a shorting ring. So by features, the Xcon should naturally play a little better on the high end, but the mass majority of Icon and Xcon owners are crossing over at 80hz or lower. In a prior install, my since Icon 12 sealed was coming in with a 12db slope at 40hz because I had mids installed that could run down that low. Hope that helps a little.

Thanks for the response...

Yeah I know about the Midbass coverance in that range however, owning a few subs that plays well into the midbass range seems to blend better with my midbass.

Seems to be the trend to cross subs in the 40-45hz but I seem to be missing a bit even with a 8 incher playing up front.

Seems like the Xcon (even having a higher power handling) is your new SQ reference sub in your line up. Nice

Kelvin

Bringing back this thread from the dead

Heard on another forum that the Xcon was based off the Fi BTL.

"A different coil and spider and soft parts can make a driver different from another, but it's still going to be an over-motored sub for any SQ setup"

Found it strange since there's a big hype about the product ; stating it is an SQ sub.

Is the BTL part true? Can anyone comment?

Thanks,

Kelvin

Where did you read that at?

Bringing back this thread from the dead

Heard on another forum that the Xcon was based off the Fi BTL.

"A different coil and spider and soft parts can make a driver different from another, but it's still going to be an over-motored sub for any SQ setup"

Found it strange since there's a big hype about the product ; stating it is an SQ sub.

Is the BTL part true? Can anyone comment?

Thanks,

Kelvin

NO! This is nothing close to being true. The XCON has it's very own designed motor, only looks simular, thats the only thing they have in common. Hope that helps.

Where did you read that at?

Yes please tell us where someone said this. Got to love the people who think they can tell what the drivers make up is based on a picture.

It has a single slug, the BTL has a single slug, humm must be almost the same thing.

I must have stated a few times in multiple threads that the Xcon has nothing to do with the BTL other then country of origin.

You shouldn't be looking at your subwoofer to play 70-125hz. You should be looking at your midbass speakers.

I don't understand why people have this notion that a sub should not play above a certain frequency, and that it's a good idea to have your midbass play down to 50hz.

Let's think about this, do you honestly think a 6.5" midbass is going to be able to match output levels of a 12" subwoofer at 50hz, 70hz, 100hz? Not only that, but having a midbass play down to 50hz creates a lot of unwanted work, you now have to deaden the shit out of your doors because they're going to buzz like crazy.

I too used to have midbass that could play to 50hz, hell they could play to 40hz without issue (Peerless SLS 6.5"), but that added a lot of annoyances with door resonances. I did my own little test on this, and it turns out your mind likes to play tricks on you. My sub was playing from 20hz-100hz and I had my midbass crossed @ 50hz then I moved it to 63hz, and then to 80hz, and then again to 100hz. Guess what, the sound didn't change one bit. The over all stereo, sounded exactly the same with midbass playing @ 50hz as it did @ 100hz. You think it's louder because you feel the vibrations up front in your pant legs and your sideviews shake like crazy, yet there is no added benefit to this what so ever.

I think what ends up happening is a lot of users enjoy the bloated lowend from 30-50hz that a lot of installs offer, they then assume that the driver is horrible above that point but in reality its that bloated lowned that really kills it. Most subs can play up to 100hz w/o issue, but it's the install and tunning that makes or breaks it.

Where did you read that at?

Yes please tell us where someone said this. Got to love the people who think they can tell what the drivers make up is based on a picture.

It has a single slug, the BTL has a single slug, humm must be almost the same thing.

I must have stated a few times in multiple threads that the Xcon has nothing to do with the BTL other then country of origin.

humm... Guess you found it

You shouldn't be looking at your subwoofer to play 70-125hz. You should be looking at your midbass speakers.

I don't understand why people have this notion that a sub should not play above a certain frequency, and that it's a good idea to have your midbass play down to 50hz.

Let's think about this, do you honestly think a 6.5" midbass is going to be able to match output levels of a 12" subwoofer at 50hz, 70hz, 100hz? Not only that, but having a midbass play down to 50hz creates a lot of unwanted work, you now have to deaden the shit out of your doors because they're going to buzz like crazy.

I too used to have midbass that could play to 50hz, hell they could play to 40hz without issue (Peerless SLS 6.5"), but that added a lot of annoyances with door resonances. I did my own little test on this, and it turns out your mind likes to play tricks on you. My sub was playing from 20hz-100hz and I had my midbass crossed @ 50hz then I moved it to 63hz, and then to 80hz, and then again to 100hz. Guess what, the sound didn't change one bit. The over all stereo, sounded exactly the same with midbass playing @ 50hz as it did @ 100hz. You think it's louder because you feel the vibrations up front in your pant legs and your sideviews shake like crazy, yet there is no added benefit to this what so ever.

I think what ends up happening is a lot of users enjoy the bloated lowend from 30-50hz that a lot of installs offer, they then assume that the driver is horrible above that point but in reality its that bloated lowned that really kills it. Most subs can play up to 100hz w/o issue, but it's the install and tunning that makes or breaks it.

I disagree. You may have found that in your install and that's ok, you can do what you want. But when all that I did was drop the crossover on my sub from 80 hz to about 65-70 hz about two years ago, I noticed a big difference. The midbass was a lot less muddy and you could hear a number of frequencies more clearly. Also, in 98% of the installs by members on this forum, at full tilt there's no way the front stage can keep up with the sub. I have a feeling that's what happened to you. The sub was so much louder that it drowned out the mid up front. Did you try lowering the crossover on the sub at the same time? IMO, 80-100 hz sounds a lot better and more crisp out of a mid than a sub, for the very fact that the mid was designed to play in that range. It has nothing to do with the size of the cone, so nobody misunderstand me. But subwoofers are designed to play subbass, which is generally less than 60 hz IMO.

I disagree. You may have found that in your install and that's ok, you can do what you want. But when all that I did was drop the crossover on my sub from 80 hz to about 65-70 hz about two years ago, I noticed a big difference. The midbass was a lot less muddy and you could hear a number of frequencies more clearly. Also, in 98% of the installs by members on this forum, at full tilt there's no way the front stage can keep up with the sub. I have a feeling that's what happened to you. The sub was so much louder that it drowned out the mid up front. Did you try lowering the crossover on the sub at the same time? IMO, 80-100 hz sounds a lot better and more crisp out of a mid than a sub, for the very fact that the mid was designed to play in that range. It has nothing to do with the size of the cone, so nobody misunderstand me. But subwoofers are designed to play subbass, which is generally less than 60 hz IMO.

Your situation sounds like an installation issue. There's no good reason that a speaker playing "higher" would sound muddy, will it have a natural roll off? Yes, most definitely. Is it going to muddy up the sound? Very unlikely, however, panel resonations can affect that which is why I believe it's an installation issue.

Your feeling about my substage is completely off base, a single 12 running of 3-400 watts can easily be over powered by my front stage, I actually have to turn the sub out off then back on to remember that its actually playing.

I'm not saying what the general car audio population does is wrong, but I don't like seeing misinformation spread about, there is no good reason a sub shouldn't or cant play up to 100hz and I really wish some of you had the opportunity to hear the other end of the spectrum. I'll never come close to winning SPL competitions, but I don't care about that, but I do have a very accurate sub stage that I would imagine 99% of you would be please with how it sounds (probably just want more output ).

I play with my X over settings with the change in music......I like a higher setting of 100hz with some heavy metal

because it brings out some of the upper freq in the speed drums and makes them hit alot harder but most

of the time I'm in the 65hz or 80hz setting

the power handling drops with a higher x over setting