My budget is about 3500$, cheaper the better though.

I have already ordered my front end speakers, my front end amp and wiring for it. I think it was about 475 so far. I figured out with the 0 gauge wiring, 2x AQ2200Ds, 2 12 Fi BTLs, my head unit, the battery and the alternator come out to about 3300. I could save money though and go to the BL's but then I don't have head room for a bigger amp to power both of them. And I think its harder comp wise if you have 2 amps cause then you are in a harder category.

I would underpower a BTL any day before I'd give a BL 1500 watts. In my application, SUV, BTL has a great audible advantage over the BL.

I don't know if you compete seriously or not but that advice should only be saved for the noobish daily driver and not for a competitor if that's hell-razor's goal.

Are you really serious? That is one of the least educated statements I have read here. The BTL with the same power will ALWAYS be Fi's loudest sub. ALWAYS.

Really? Then explain to me how when ROE did the great 12" comparison that the Fi Q, which was given half the power the BTL was given, produced MORE pressure between 35-50hz in the same box and tuning..

And i know the BL is geared to be louder than the Q so using the BL would exaggerate this even more.

Touche, one assumption I made and that was that they drivers were used in reasonably optimal boxes. However I feel that is a really fair assumption if you know anything about drivers.

There is all sorts of wrong in that ROE test.

If I decide to push 2 12" BTL's, what do you guys recommend amp wise? (I am going to most likely get them). How about BL's if I try to save some money?

If I decide to push 2 12" BTL's, what do you guys recommend amp wise? (I am going to most likely get them). How about BL's if I try to save some money?

The BL and SAZ-1500D have been a quite successful combo it seems. At least from what I have seen. The BTL will like that power too, but the BL's will still get quite loud in a proper install. Yes, in most cases, head to head the BTL will be louder then the BL, but I have some experience with the BL and it gets over looked often because so many people think they need the BTL when the BL is more then enough. And with the upgrades to the 2009 BL, it is quite a capable driver. I try to take the approach of Porsche 911 metaphor; meaning the mass majority think they need the 911 GT2 (top dog twin turbo AWD beast) because it is the top of the line, when in reality the standard 911 Carrerra 2 is much more car (or in this case, sub) then they really need. Because for many of these people, how often are they really going to need that extra little bit, or metaphorically that extra HP, when they never drive harder then 7/10th or play louder then 70% volume.

Hope that was not too confusing or off the rails, but just trying to make a point of buying what makes sense in the realm of your needs. Not saying at all that the BTL is not worth it, just is it worth it for your realistic needs.

Alright that makes sense. I am going to wait though until I order anything sub wise to talk to Shizzz again. He is one busy guy and I have a feeling he will agree with you. Well, powermaster D3100 battery here I come!

Also, 1x SAX-1500D for 1x BL right?

Maybe two BL's with bp power with a Sundown 1500D each or Sundown 3500D (watch gains and volume) on both would do the trick. Those should be plenty loud and go from there because you will get better as you test, tune and modify your system and car for better numbers. Then after you get the most out of your current setup or get better at competing then I would suggest stepping up to a pair of BTL's, just my .02.

what do you mean by "bp power"? And tossing 1750 at each is...pushing it as they are only rated for 1k. But I wouldn't mind doing it....

Here is the technical breakdown options for the BL series. Hope this helps.

what do you mean by "bp power"? And tossing 1750 at each is...pushing it as they are only rated for 1k. But I wouldn't mind doing it....

Remember matching the rms of you amp and subs is not the best idea, but that is what we are told when entering the car audio realm. Just cause your amp puts out 3500 watts does not mean you have to fee your subs that much, its good to have head room. I would get the bl's w/ bp power and a SAZ-3500D and set the gain around 3000rms with a dmm and you should be safe until you get better at understanding amps and how to throw more power at a sub but watching how you control the volume on the head unit.

Oh you mean the option with the sub. I thought you meant the bp was with the amp =P. Thanks Old Skool and jay. LEts see what Shizz things about this idea now.

i think you should run funky pups.

funky pups.... why?

ant isn't there a reason why you see most people frying their funky pup woofers(setting them on fire)? i think there's better out there for the power you push (that just my thoughts nothing to back it up though)

ant isn't there a reason why you see most people frying their funky pup woofers(setting them on fire)? i think there's better out there for the power you push (that just my thoughts nothing to back it up though)

Most people bought them for a fun experiment, some just for blowing up. Mine still are NIB.

From what I have seen about these subs, I think I will pass on buying one from a very iffy company...

NIB?

I think I am pretty sure I am going with either the BL or BTL at this point. Excellent reviews, great power handling and within my budget.

From what I have seen about these subs, I think I will pass on buying one from a very iffy company...

He was kidding. Funky Pups are gone. They were an uber cheap little driver that someone a few years ago bought up the remaining stock and had a huge group buy. You can get FP dust caps from Mach5.

NIB?

I think I am pretty sure I am going with either the BL or BTL at this point. Excellent reviews, great power handling and within my budget.

New In Box.

From what I have seen about these subs, I think I will pass on buying one from a very iffy company...

He was kidding. Funky Pups are gone. They were an uber cheap little driver that someone a few years ago bought up the remaining stock and had a huge group buy. You can get FP dust caps from Mach5.

really? ^ i would love to install a FP dustcap on a bad a** sub... tell em' they are a new line, new release, lol, that would get some folks all messed up, lol.

lol you guys are...well this will way enough

Anyway. Still trying to figure out either a BTL or BL. BL can handle a lot but BTL may be over the top in loudness compared to the BL...

It would be really easy to figure out if you actually gave information on what you'd like and followed the posting guidelines. So far you are trying to make a decision based on subjective responses that don't correlate to your goals. It flat out doesn't make sense. There is a huge difference between those subs and only your needs will determine which one is right for you. Oh, and it has nothing to do with "over the top", lol.

lol you guys are...well this will way enough

Anyway. Still trying to figure out either a BTL or BL. BL can handle a lot but BTL may be over the top in loudness compared to the BL...

These are different subs, please state your goals and what you want from this setup. This topic has gone every which direction.

Alright seeing as I haven't been very clear I guess here are my goals:

To get a woofer that sounds good.

To be able to hit the lows at high volume without distortion (i know it will happen eventually with every sub).

To be able to upgrade later (ie amp if I under power or if they will accept more power).

To be able to compete and put up good numbers for the woofers I will have. This is playing music, not one tone.

To be able to play most kinds of music well.

To get the max potential out of the woofer.

Ive heard some systems where all you could listen to on it was rap, I do not want one of those (it may just be the car as well or the build).

To fit the woofer(s) in the trunk and still have room to spare.

Nothing too expensive (over my 3500$ budget that is).

Have a woofer that can pretty much do what others cant in volume, bass and spl (and quality).

There were people saying to me I cannot build a good system on my budget, I want to prove them wrong and destroy their stupid little JL's pushing 1k watts (a guy that owns a company here was saying that there's no way these speakers can do what they show on youtube for example. That its fake and people just re coned them with a 1000$+ driver)

And pretty much to get the best bang for my buck.

Oh and I don't want to be disappointed.

I don't know what else I may be looking for. I hope that's good enough for you guys to help me narrow down my choices. If not, ask me questions cause right now I am a little on the sick side and my mind isn't working very well...

Also just though of some more ideas --

I want it to hit hard, be in a ported box (prefer that sound over a sealed), good excursion for SPL...ill keep on posting the more ideas I get.