Why can't they be? If you know your setup up and down, you can hear 1-2db difference.

Example. I tested 3 amps. 500 watt 750 watt and 1500watt. Same sub same car same day.

First run with 500 watt amp. 142.

2nd run with 750 watt amp 143. And it was a BIG difference to me.

Third run, with double power was 144.5. And another BIG noticeable difference.

I could go pull up the old post on ca.com with pictures and proof if needed.

at the same frequency all three times?

also.. if any of those tests were clipped.. or clipped more than the other.. a square wave will produce peaks in MANY frequencies which will cause your ear to perceive a sound audibly louder than what it might be because of frequency shift.

Same frequencies, I was burping, rolling volume. All these numbers was round abouts, not 100% sure on the exacts until I pull up my old thread. Don't know about clipped, didn't scope them or clamp, so have no idea of actual power.

Point is, I sat there and hear differences that wasn't 3dBs apart.

I know the theories. I know power compression. My point is, I know what I heard.

Does his brother playing him music with random volumes on a cassette player underwater count?

Only if he's using boobies as headphones. Mainly because I wanted an excuse to throw boobies into the conversation. And I think we can all agree, Boobs are awesome.

Why can't they be? If you know your setup up and down, you can hear 1-2db difference.

Example. I tested 3 amps. 500 watt 750 watt and 1500watt. Same sub same car same day.

First run with 500 watt amp. 142.

2nd run with 750 watt amp 143. And it was a BIG difference to me.

Third run, with double power was 144.5. And another BIG noticeable difference.

I could go pull up the old post on ca.com with pictures and proof if needed.

at the same frequency all three times?

also.. if any of those tests were clipped.. or clipped more than the other.. a square wave will produce peaks in MANY frequencies which will cause your ear to perceive a sound audibly louder than what it might be because of frequency shift.

Same frequencies, I was burping, rolling volume. All these numbers was round abouts, not 100% sure on the exacts until I pull up my old thread. Don't know about clipped, didn't scope them or clamp, so have no idea of actual power.

Point is, I sat there and hear differences that wasn't 3dBs apart.

I know the theories. I know power compression. My point is, I know what I heard.

I can hear increase\decrease on same tone less than 3db when sitting there over and over listening to the same note.. however.. the frequency is not the ONLY thing u hear....

Resonances from vehicle, vibrating objects, frequency shifting...

Does his brother playing him music with random volumes on a cassette player underwater count?

Only if he's using boobies as headphones. Mainly because I wanted an excuse to throw boobies into the conversation. And I think we can all agree, Boobs are awesome.

Why can't they be? If you know your setup up and down, you can hear 1-2db difference.

Example. I tested 3 amps. 500 watt 750 watt and 1500watt. Same sub same car same day.

First run with 500 watt amp. 142.

2nd run with 750 watt amp 143. And it was a BIG difference to me.

Third run, with double power was 144.5. And another BIG noticeable difference.

I could go pull up the old post on ca.com with pictures and proof if needed.

at the same frequency all three times?

also.. if any of those tests were clipped.. or clipped more than the other.. a square wave will produce peaks in MANY frequencies which will cause your ear to perceive a sound audibly louder than what it might be because of frequency shift.

Same frequencies, I was burping, rolling volume. All these numbers was round abouts, not 100% sure on the exacts until I pull up my old thread. Don't know about clipped, didn't scope them or clamp, so have no idea of actual power.

Point is, I sat there and hear differences that wasn't 3dBs apart.

I know the theories. I know power compression. My point is, I know what I heard.

You know what you heard......but do you know why you heard it? Unless you can answer the question why, and exclude every possible explanation that it was a reason other than what you are suggesting....then you didn't test anything, you can't prove anything, your results aren't valid, and you can not state anything definitive as an explanation. The reason you noticed a difference, even a "big" difference could be reasons completely unrelated the decibel difference of the fundamental frequency. Resonances, distortions, knowing the differences while listening, etc etc etc (and a dozen more things I didn't mention) are all are going to affect the results. Hell, the very fact that you rolled the volume makes your "test" useless.

And I'm not arguing the 3db point. I don't agree with the 3db thing either. But, in another thread you said you could hear .5db differences, in the subbass, at a level of 140db+. THAT is clearly beyond the limits of human hearing. The differences that the OP would experience would be well below 1db, THAT would be clearly inaudible and you tried to argue against that point.

FYI, "I know what I heard" isn't a valid argument. It's been used time and time again by various people arguing various points for various reasons. The simple fact is, that's not a valid defense or explanation. The only means of "proving" this is by means of a scientifically valid test in controlled conditions administered by someone with the training to properly conduct such an experiment.

And what you are describing.....doesn't qualify as any of the above.

Why can't they be? If you know your setup up and down, you can hear 1-2db difference.

Example. I tested 3 amps. 500 watt 750 watt and 1500watt. Same sub same car same day.

First run with 500 watt amp. 142.

2nd run with 750 watt amp 143. And it was a BIG difference to me.

Third run, with double power was 144.5. And another BIG noticeable difference.

I could go pull up the old post on ca.com with pictures and proof if needed.

at the same frequency all three times?

also.. if any of those tests were clipped.. or clipped more than the other.. a square wave will produce peaks in MANY frequencies which will cause your ear to perceive a sound audibly louder than what it might be because of frequency shift.

Same frequencies, I was burping, rolling volume. All these numbers was round abouts, not 100% sure on the exacts until I pull up my old thread. Don't know about clipped, didn't scope them or clamp, so have no idea of actual power.

Point is, I sat there and hear differences that wasn't 3dBs apart.

I know the theories. I know power compression. My point is, I know what I heard.

You know what you heard......but do you know why you heard it? Unless you can answer the question why, and exclude every possible explanation that it was a reason other than what you are suggesting....then you didn't test anything, you can't prove anything, your results aren't valid, and you can not state anything definitive as an explanation. The reason you noticed a difference, even a "big" difference could be reasons completely unrelated the decibel difference of the fundamental frequency. Resonances, distortions, knowing the differences while listening, etc etc etc (and a dozen more things I didn't mention) are all are going to affect the results. Hell, the very fact that you rolled the volume makes your "test" useless.

And I'm not arguing the 3db point. I don't agree with the 3db thing either. But, in another thread you said you could hear .5db differences, in the subbass, at a level of 140db+. THAT is clearly beyond the limits of human hearing. The differences that the OP would experience would be well below 1db, THAT would be clearly inaudible and you tried to argue against that point.

FYI, "I know what I heard" isn't a valid argument. It's been used time and time again by various people arguing various points for various reasons. The simple fact is, that's not a valid defense or explanation. The only means of "proving" this is by means of a scientifically valid test in controlled conditions administered by someone with the training to properly conduct such an experiment.

And what you are describing.....doesn't qualify as any of the above.

The OP is at 150+, which makes it even more unbelievable that that small of a gain is going to be noticed.

Why can't they be? If you know your setup up and down, you can hear 1-2db difference.

Example. I tested 3 amps. 500 watt 750 watt and 1500watt. Same sub same car same day.

First run with 500 watt amp. 142.

2nd run with 750 watt amp 143. And it was a BIG difference to me.

Third run, with double power was 144.5. And another BIG noticeable difference.

I could go pull up the old post on ca.com with pictures and proof if needed.

at the same frequency all three times?

also.. if any of those tests were clipped.. or clipped more than the other.. a square wave will produce peaks in MANY frequencies which will cause your ear to perceive a sound audibly louder than what it might be because of frequency shift.

Same frequencies, I was burping, rolling volume. All these numbers was round abouts, not 100% sure on the exacts until I pull up my old thread. Don't know about clipped, didn't scope them or clamp, so have no idea of actual power.

Point is, I sat there and hear differences that wasn't 3dBs apart.

I know the theories. I know power compression. My point is, I know what I heard.

You know what you heard......but do you know why you heard it? Unless you can answer the question why, and exclude every possible explanation that it was a reason other than what you are suggesting....then you didn't test anything, you can't prove anything, your results aren't valid, and you can not state anything definitive as an explanation. The reason you noticed a difference, even a "big" difference could be reasons completely unrelated the decibel difference of the fundamental frequency. Resonances, distortions, knowing the differences while listening, etc etc etc (and a dozen more things I didn't mention) are all are going to affect the results. Hell, the very fact that you rolled the volume makes your "test" useless.

And I'm not arguing the 3db point. I don't agree with the 3db thing either. But, in another thread you said you could hear .5db differences, in the subbass, at a level of 140db+. THAT is clearly beyond the limits of human hearing. The differences that the OP would experience would be well below 1db, THAT would be clearly inaudible and you tried to argue against that point.

FYI, "I know what I heard" isn't a valid argument. It's been used time and time again by various people arguing various points for various reasons. The simple fact is, that's not a valid defense or explanation. The only means of "proving" this is by means of a scientifically valid test in controlled conditions administered by someone with the training to properly conduct such an experiment.

And what you are describing.....doesn't qualify as any of the above.

Edited December 17, 201014 yr by Maddenkid2011

Why can't they be? If you know your setup up and down, you can hear 1-2db difference.

Example. I tested 3 amps. 500 watt 750 watt and 1500watt. Same sub same car same day.

First run with 500 watt amp. 142.

2nd run with 750 watt amp 143. And it was a BIG difference to me.

Third run, with double power was 144.5. And another BIG noticeable difference.

I could go pull up the old post on ca.com with pictures and proof if needed.

at the same frequency all three times?

also.. if any of those tests were clipped.. or clipped more than the other.. a square wave will produce peaks in MANY frequencies which will cause your ear to perceive a sound audibly louder than what it might be because of frequency shift.

Same frequencies, I was burping, rolling volume. All these numbers was round abouts, not 100% sure on the exacts until I pull up my old thread. Don't know about clipped, didn't scope them or clamp, so have no idea of actual power.

Point is, I sat there and hear differences that wasn't 3dBs apart.

I know the theories. I know power compression. My point is, I know what I heard.

You know what you heard......but do you know why you heard it? Unless you can answer the question why, and exclude every possible explanation that it was a reason other than what you are suggesting....then you didn't test anything, you can't prove anything, your results aren't valid, and you can not state anything definitive as an explanation. The reason you noticed a difference, even a "big" difference could be reasons completely unrelated the decibel difference of the fundamental frequency. Resonances, distortions, knowing the differences while listening, etc etc etc (and a dozen more things I didn't mention) are all are going to affect the results. Hell, the very fact that you rolled the volume makes your "test" useless.

And I'm not arguing the 3db point. I don't agree with the 3db thing either. But, in another thread you said you could hear .5db differences, in the subbass, at a level of 140db+. THAT is clearly beyond the limits of human hearing. The differences that the OP would experience would be well below 1db, THAT would be clearly inaudible and you tried to argue against that point.

FYI, "I know what I heard" isn't a valid argument. It's been used time and time again by various people arguing various points for various reasons. The simple fact is, that's not a valid defense or explanation. The only means of "proving" this is by means of a scientifically valid test in controlled conditions administered by someone with the training to properly conduct such an experiment.

And what you are describing.....doesn't qualify as any of the above.

The OP is at 150+, which makes it even more unbelievable that that small of a gain is going to be noticed.

actually u got it backwards.. The higher up u go on the meter, the harder it is to get louder so a small increase can be a lot more distinguished than at the lower end.

Still I never said anybody was wrong. But I was stating my side. It has no real proof, but its hard to make u believe what I hear/feel, period. I just notice change, hearing and feeling.

If you have perfect hearing you can tell a 1 db difference in sound at a normal level 80-100 range, when you over load the senses you can throw that out the window. If it were that easy to tell why would we need meters?

blablalba

at the same frequency all three times?

also.. if any of those tests were clipped.. or clipped more than the other.. a square wave will produce peaks in MANY frequencies which will cause your ear to perceive a sound audibly louder than what it might be because of frequency shift.

Same frequencies, I was burping, rolling volume. All these numbers was round abouts, not 100% sure on the exacts until I pull up my old thread. Don't know about clipped, didn't scope them or clamp, so have no idea of actual power.

Point is, I sat there and hear differences that wasn't 3dBs apart.

I know the theories. I know power compression. My point is, I know what I heard.

There is the answer, didn't scope it, and you're telling you don't know if the numbers are 100% accurate?

blablabla

at the same frequency all three times?

also.. if any of those tests were clipped.. or clipped more than the other.. a square wave will produce peaks in MANY frequencies which will cause your ear to perceive a sound audibly louder than what it might be because of frequency shift.

Same frequencies, I was burping, rolling volume. All these numbers was round abouts, not 100% sure on the exacts until I pull up my old thread. Don't know about clipped, didn't scope them or clamp, so have no idea of actual power.

Point is, I sat there and hear differences that wasn't 3dBs apart.

I know the theories. I know power compression. My point is, I know what I heard.

I can hear increase\decrease on same tone less than 3db when sitting there over and over listening to the same note.. however.. the frequency is not the ONLY thing u hear....

Resonances from vehicle, vibrating objects, frequency shifting...

Ching,ching, we have a winner

Still I never said anybody was wrong. But I was stating my side. It has no real proof, but its hard to make u believe what I hear/feel, period. I just notice change, hearing and feeling.

Feel?

That's what i thought, you did not hear it get louder, you felt it.

Edited December 17, 201014 yr by kirill007

actually u got it backwards.. The higher up u go on the meter, the harder it is to get louder so a small increase can be a lot more distinguished than at the lower end.

The level of effort has zero to do with the ease of perception. The scale is already weighted for the way that sound is perceived. 0.1dB whether the reference is 80dB or 150dB is the same level of increase to the ear and equally imperceptible.

That's like saying that its easier to tell the difference between driving at 45 and 50 or 145 and 150. because it takes a larger increase in HP to drive 150.

I said the numbers wasn't 100% true, cause I don't remember the exact number, like the tenth and thousandth. They was around abouts.

Lol, just cause I can hear a difference doesn't mean I can sit in a car and tell you HOW loud it is. That's what the meter is for. Plus some cars sound way louder to the ear yet quieter on the meter than others. That was a stupid comment.

But I've done a few details to my setup before, heard a noticeable difference, so I thought it was 3dBs, like everybody said. And was only 1.2. I could tell which way my box position was louder to my ear. Wasn't on the meter, in dB Drag legal, cause of being on the other side of the car and at the dash.

And Also, doesn't your EARS have feeling in them? When you feel the pressure in them?

And Also, doesn't your EARS have feeling in them? When you feel the pressure in them?

SPL = Sound Pressure Level. That is ALL your ear "feels" although most people call that feeling hearing.

Your argument is absurd. Level comparing in a non-blind AB is a joke. Do your tests right and then report otherwise keep drinking the psychoacoustic koolaid.

And Also, doesn't your EARS have feeling in them? When you feel the pressure in them?

SPL = Sound Pressure Level. That is ALL your ear "feels" although most people call that feeling hearing.

Your argument is absurd. Level comparing in a non-blind AB is a joke. Do your tests right and then report otherwise keep drinking the psychoacoustic koolaid.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

So then i shouldn't buy a saz 2500 and two fi Q 12's to replace my P1000-1bd and two type R 12's because I wont notice a difference?

So then i shouldn't buy a saz 2500 and two fi Q 12's to replace my P1000-1bd and two type R 12's because I wont notice a difference?

Why don't you change a third variable like the box too and then further misapply what you are reading.

Funny to compare a Q to a fart cannon as well. There will be a huge difference, but not sure if it is the type you are looking for.

Impious answers make me feel like I dont know anything, but at the same time learning everything

I'll have an answer for you guys in a week or so on whether i'm upgrading or not. I've been researching a few amps, Kicker Warhorse, MTX Thunder Elite 4k, SAZ-4500d..

So then i shouldn't buy a saz 2500 and two fi Q 12's to replace my P1000-1bd and two type R 12's because I wont notice a difference?

Why don't you change a third variable like the box too and then further misapply what you are reading.

Funny to compare a Q to a fart cannon as well. There will be a huge difference, but not sure if it is the type you are looking for.

The speaker I mention was an idea since looking at others that carry around the same RMS rating is a wide range to choose from. As for the box I am glad I built one off a design from a man named fallen off another site that can work with 2k pretty good so all I would do is swap subs out and upgrade amp, hell the box is way better than the flea market stuff around here. It's just that I am a simple person much like most that come here and from most threads that have popped up in the last two weeks regardless of how redundant they are they "seem" to end off saying you won't notice anything from slight to moderate RMS output increases. I'm glad you have a ton of knowledge when it comes to this stuff but take time to put yourself in everyone else's shoes and think like them going off the numbers on the box regardless of how big of the hammer you swing in circles trying to get them to understand meters and what not.

lol my fart box is at 4 cubes tuned to 33hrz

Edited December 25, 201014 yr by crunkjuice1

So then i shouldn't buy a saz 2500 and two fi Q 12's to replace my P1000-1bd and two type R 12's because I wont notice a difference?

Why don't you change a third variable like the box too and then further misapply what you are reading.

Funny to compare a Q to a fart cannon as well. There will be a huge difference, but not sure if it is the type you are looking for.

The speaker I mention was an idea since looking at others that carry around the same RMS rating is a wide range to choose from. As for the box I am glad I built one off a design from a man named fallen off another site that can work with 2k pretty good so all I would do is swap subs out and upgrade amp, hell the box is way better than the flea market stuff around here. It's just that I am a simple person much like most that come here and from most threads that have popped up in the last two weeks regardless of how redundant they are they "seem" to end off saying you won't notice anything from slight to moderate RMS output increases. I'm glad you have a ton of knowledge when it comes to this stuff but take time to put yourself in everyone else's shoes and think like them going off the numbers on the box regardless of how big of the hammer you swing in circles trying to get them to understand meters and what not.

lol my fart box is at 4 cubes tuned to 33hrz

3 Things.

1) Proofread your post, I have no idea what you just said

2) Use the search function

3) Read some threads and use that information in your asking a question

So then i shouldn't buy a saz 2500 and two fi Q 12's to replace my P1000-1bd and two type R 12's because I wont notice a difference?

Why don't you change a third variable like the box too and then further misapply what you are reading.

Funny to compare a Q to a fart cannon as well. There will be a huge difference, but not sure if it is the type you are looking for.

The speaker I mention was an idea since looking at others that carry around the same RMS rating is a wide range to choose from. As for the box I am glad I built one off a design from a man named fallen off another site that can work with 2k pretty good so all I would do is swap subs out and upgrade amp, hell the box is way better than the flea market stuff around here. It's just that I am a simple person much like most that come here and from most threads that have popped up in the last two weeks regardless of how redundant they are they "seem" to end off saying you won't notice anything from slight to moderate RMS output increases. I'm glad you have a ton of knowledge when it comes to this stuff but take time to put yourself in everyone else's shoes and think like them going off the numbers on the box regardless of how big of the hammer you swing in circles trying to get them to understand meters and what not.

lol my fart box is at 4 cubes tuned to 33hrz

3 Things.

1) Proofread your post, I have no idea what you just said

2) Use the search function

3) Read some threads and use that information in your asking a question

Always keeping people in check including me

The speaker I mention was an idea since looking at others that carry around the same RMS rating is a wide range to choose from. As for the box I am glad I built one off a design from a man named fallen off another site that can work with 2k pretty good so all I would do is swap subs out and upgrade amp, hell the box is way better than the flea market stuff around here. It's just that I am a simple person much like most that come here and from most threads that have popped up in the last two weeks regardless of how redundant they are they "seem" to end off saying you won't notice anything from slight to moderate RMS output increases. I'm glad you have a ton of knowledge when it comes to this stuff but take time to put yourself in everyone else's shoes and think like them going off the numbers on the box regardless of how big of the hammer you swing in circles trying to get them to understand meters and what not.

lol my fart box is at 4 cubes tuned to 33hrz

Are you using a Russian/English translator or something? English cannot be your first language, and if it is, slap your English/Language Arts teacher for me when you get back from the Christmas break.

The speaker I mention was an idea since looking at others that carry around the same RMS rating is a wide range to choose from. As for the box I am glad I built one off a design from a man named fallen off another site that can work with 2k pretty good so all I would do is swap subs out and upgrade amp, hell the box is way better than the flea market stuff around here. It's just that I am a simple person much like most that come here and from most threads that have popped up in the last two weeks regardless of how redundant they are they "seem" to end off saying you won't notice anything from slight to moderate RMS output increases. I'm glad you have a ton of knowledge when it comes to this stuff but take time to put yourself in everyone else's shoes and think like them going off the numbers on the box regardless of how big of the hammer you swing in circles trying to get them to understand meters and what not.

lol my fart box is at 4 cubes tuned to 33hrz

Are you using a Russian/English translator or something? English cannot be your first language, and if it is, slap your English/Language Arts teacher for me when you get back from the Christmas break.

Wow what an ignorant response.