SP4's do not have sandwiched leads, they are sewn on the top spider inbetween the spacer, aside from that there is nothing wrong with sandwiched leads to begin with.

 

Sub-par amplifiers shooting ultra high radio frequency noise will cause the tinsel leads to glow..if it's not filtered out.

 

Speakers do what you tell them to do, no matter what..it is an input device that takes whatever you give it, and makes it into sound.

 

Email me your contact info and i'll try to give you a call this evening and go over some stuff with you. In the meantime, watch the video.

 

Edit: I would also get your amplifier checked out, that looks like the end result of several of those 3000d's i've seen issues with. It looks like straight DC voltage to me.

 

This is definitely user error. There must be something you are leaving out of the story.

 

so subwoofer build error

and amp build error

is out of the question?

 

companies make mistakes

 

 

 

Fi responded to a similar issue occurring previously. give the thread a read, http://forum.realmofexcursion.com/subwoofers/73884-fis-response-burning-tinsel-leads.html

 

FI basically blames large korean amps sending microwaved signals

 

but OP has a quality sundown.....

 

idk if this matters or not but on the tensils where it has the rubber coating around it (i guess to keep the 2 from touching) mine only had it on 3 out of the 4. not saying that caused the problem but it did catch my attention.

 

if all but 1 had a coating then there's still no way for them to touch each other and short out 

 

OP even noticed something funny about the sub before the fire

Edited March 29, 201312 yr by Truconcept

This is definitely user error. There must be something you are leaving out of the story.

 

so subwoofer build error

and amp build error

is out of the question?

 

companies make mistakes

 

 

 

>Fi responded to a similar issue occurring previously. give the thread a read, http://forum.realmofexcursion.com/subwoofers/73884-fis-response-burning-tinsel-leads.html

 

FI basically blames large korean amps sending microwaved signals

 

but OP has a quality sundown.....

 

idk if this matters or not but on the tensils where it has the rubber coating around it (i guess to keep the 2 from touching) mine only had it on 3 out of the 4. not saying that caused the problem but it did catch my attention.

 

if all but 1 had a coating then there's still no way for them to touch each other and short out 

 

OP even noticed something funny about the sub before the fire

 

It also said there were problems with the sundown saz-3000d.

This is definitely user error. There must be something you are leaving out of the story.

 

so subwoofer build error

and amp build error

is out of the question?

 

companies make mistakes

 

 

 

>>Fi responded to a similar issue occurring previously. give the thread a read, http://forum.realmofexcursion.com/subwoofers/73884-fis-response-burning-tinsel-leads.html

 

FI basically blames large korean amps sending microwaved signals

 

but OP has a quality sundown.....

 

idk if this matters or not but on the tensils where it has the rubber coating around it (i guess to keep the 2 from touching) mine only had it on 3 out of the 4. not saying that caused the problem but it did catch my attention.

 

if all but 1 had a coating then there's still no way for them to touch each other and short out 

 

OP even noticed something funny about the sub before the fire

 

 

 

It has nothing to do with the sub itself, really.  Even though his amp is a Sundown, it still operates on the exact same principles as any other amp.  To add to what Nick said, what typically happens is that the high frequencies of the power supply that convert the vehicles 12v power to the +/- higher voltage for the amp to create it's output with doesn't get filtered like it should.  Now whether it's by shotty design (cheap amps) or as the case may very well be here that something in the amp has failed, it's still the same cause.  The OP may be able to test for it by connecting a DMM with frequency measurement and ACV to the output of the amp with no RCA's attached.  If he sees a high frequency on the output and is able to measure anything above a minimal (< tenths of a volt) amount of AC voltage then he definitely has an issue with the amp.   The best test would be with an O-scope, but not many people have those lying around.

 

Fi sub or not, I think this would have happened and I'm sure it's related directly to a failure in the amp itself.

Anybody have a link to where the issues with the Sundown amps have been discussed or know which model amps have had these issues?

I think nick points out in the tread i posted that its not necessarily the design (though it could be) but the parts used. basically,  cheap parts sold to the build house result in some amps not performing to spec. 

I have replied to your email Ben.

Glad to see you making the rounds Shawn. Good cs right there.

Tinsel leads have been the weak point of subs since day 1 in my opinion.

 

At first they would just break.

people would just solder wire to fix this issue.

 

Then sandwiched leads

User cannot fix broken leads and possibility of fire

 

Now sewn on leads

User can fix broken leads and possibility of fire.

 

 

Have amps been changing that much?

Not really.

When people say cheap amps, i would think the components in the amp are cheap and are likely to fail faster.

The tolerances could be out of wack, but not by a great margin because that would cause other components in the amp to fail faster.

So I disagree with saying amp A caused this and Amp B doesn't have that issue

I do agree that an amp will do what it is told to do regardless of brand.

Tinsel leads have been the weak point of subs since day 1 in my opinion.

 

At first they would just break.

people would just solder wire to fix this issue.

 

Then sandwiched leads

User cannot fix broken leads and possibility of fire

 

Now sewn on leads

User can fix broken leads and possibility of fire.

 

 

Have amps been changing that much?

Not really.

When people say cheap amps, i would think the components in the amp are cheap and are likely to fail faster.

The tolerances could be out of wack, but not by a great margin because that would cause other components in the amp to fail faster.

So I disagree with saying amp A caused this and Amp B doesn't have that issue

I do agree that an amp will do what it is told to do regardless of brand.

I couldn't agree more, but keep in mind im still very noobish

why would those be a problem with the sub when clearly the problem is abuse/bad install?

Edited March 29, 201312 yr by lithium

Instead of speculating, find someone or a video of induction heating happening to speakers that can be a direct result of unintentional failure.

I disagree to the fullest, but will let this die.

as ppl are so inclined to their thoughts

SP4's do not have sandwiched leads, they are sewn on the top spider inbetween the spacer, aside from that there is nothing wrong with sandwiched leads to begin with.

 

Sub-par amplifiers shooting ultra high radio frequency noise will cause the tinsel leads to glow..if it's not filtered out.

 

Speakers do what you tell them to do, no matter what..it is an input device that takes whatever you give it, and makes it into sound.

 

Email me your contact info and i'll try to give you a call this evening and go over some stuff with you. In the meantime, watch the video.

 

Edit: I would also get your amplifier checked out, that looks like the end result of several of those 3000d's i've seen issues with. It looks like straight DC voltage to me.

 

[email protected]

Im not sure about what that post had in it. I have had so many subs man, and this have never happend. and i have seen when a clipped signal cause damage to a sub, it locks up ect, no sound. the damn sub still was working fine, while the spiders were burning man.. it was not because of clipped power, i dont use bass boost and my box is 4 cu tuned to 33 hz and my subsonic filter was at 29 Hz..I just hope that someone here has a good enough heart to do the right thing, and i work in customer service so i know how much it would affect the outlook of the company. I love Fi, no doubt about it. i wish i could run all fi equipment.. and the logo is so damn sick i want to rock a black t shirt with the logo on it lol..but come on guys something was not right with the sub..

What was the ohm load the subs were wired for?

1 ohm as they are d2

You had the pair of D2 woofers wired to 1 ohm?

You had the pair of D2 woofers wired to 1 ohm?

I think he just has one and had it wired to 1 ohm since its a d2.

He said "...they...".

He said "...they...".

they meaning the coils.. sorry

Tinsel leads have been the weak point of subs since day 1 in my opinion.

 

At first they would just break.

people would just solder wire to fix this issue.

 

Then sandwiched leads

User cannot fix broken leads and possibility of fire

 

Now sewn on leads

User can fix broken leads and possibility of fire.

 

 

Have amps been changing that much?

Not really.

When people say cheap amps, i would think the components in the amp are cheap and are likely to fail faster.

The tolerances could be out of wack, but not by a great margin because that would cause other components in the amp to fail faster.

So I disagree with saying amp A caused this and Amp B doesn't have that issue

I do agree that an amp will do what it is told to do regardless of brand.

 

You can a take a jbl/crown a6000gti that does 8800 watts into a 5.8 ohm load and never burn a tinsel lead up, nor burn a coil up. They held up in the extreme van for many hundreds of burps and finished 2nd in the death match in extreme 3-4 with absolutely no cooling at all what so ever when Mike Bartells was still competing with the BTL's a number of years ago. This is a class a/b amplifier and does not 'switch' per-se. There is no radio frequency noise being induced by the output stage of the amplifier itself into the leads.

 

You can take an amplifier from a series of korean buildhouses which are all kissing cousins of each other and 1 in 3 have high frequency induction issues because they all use the same driver controller board on the output fets operating within a given frequency range..which is not filtered out.

 

So, given this information and the korean built amplifiers of said buildhouses do less than half of the power of the crown amplifier, and by definition more wattage present = more heat energy, what is going on? It's impossible for an amplifier design to be flawed and cause significant excess heat generation to occur right? It's doing less than half of the power of the Crown amplifier..how could it possibly be burning things up if Ohm's law still stands and is a law of science?

 

A watt is a watt, and is a measure of the rate of transfer of energy per time division..whether it is heat/time or work/time, it always goes back to joules of energy per second of exposure.

 

I've personally reconed 10 or 12 woofers that were hooked to that style of 3000 watt amplifier from that build house that had failed and took the sub out with it..with all various tinsel lead setups from other manufactures outside of what we did. They were made during a period also when silica was hard to come by and quality control of mosfets out of the orient went to crap putting it politely.

 

Are any of the lead setups the absolute 'perfect' way of doing things? No. The most correct way of doing things is patented, for really good reason.

 

Well, for others sake.. i'm not on NDMStang's level of intelligence.. but i will add an angle to this debate.

 

The BPX line was also engineered the same way that GTI was in terms of how it output power.

 

I have mentioned this video a billion times to people but have never been able to find it.. 

So you must take my word for it.. or call JBL and see if anyone can back me up on this-

 

To me, wire is wire and it will only fail due to current, too much of it for whatever the timeframe is here.

 

Now, the JBL\Crown amps had this going for them-

 

The BPX2200.1 which was a 2,400w amp was ON VIDEO showing this and talking about what to expect when measuring output-

 

Voltage rail out- ~132vAC

Current out- ~17aAC

 

They say no matter what ohm load was wired to it, 1.5-4ohm, it would ALWAYS measure 8ohms output.

 

This is a conclusion to high power at LOW current output.

 

Low current would allow more wattage to pass through without failure.

 

If we bypassed this tech, then we would be left with ALL other amps out there which is what we have right now.

 

I feel if amps in general are non-filtered so much, it would be crazy hysteria out there.

 

Like i said before, i cant say someone is right and someone isnt.

 

 

It would be nice to see a video done proving such accusations of the assumption that anything presented in this thread is true so people can understand something they may not know.

 Just another dime a dozen re badged black Korean amp.  Nothing different other than a name.

Current is definitely an issue too, the lower the amplifier is wired the higher the distortion and the worse things snowball down hill from there.

 

There's REALLY good reason why EVERY pro sound company has all of their amplifiers running 4-8ohms, and all of their speakers 4-8-16 ohm coils as well.

 

Current is most definitely a killer, but the measure of wattage is still the same, 100 amps and 1 volt is still 100 watts...100 volts and 1 amp..is still 100 watts.

 

There's more to the story..and that's induction...and it only shows its head occasionally in certain scenarios, most of the time it's on the positive tinsel leads.

Current is definitely an issue too, the lower the amplifier is wired the higher the distortion and the worse things snowball down hill from there.

 

There's REALLY good reason why EVERY pro sound company has all of their amplifiers running 4-8ohms, and all of their speakers 4-8-16 ohm coils as well.

 

Current is most definitely a killer, but the measure of wattage is still the same, 100 amps and 1 volt is still 100 watts...100 volts and 1 amp..is still 100 watts.

 

There's more to the story..and that's induction...and it only shows its head occasionally in certain scenarios, most of the time it's on the positive tinsel leads.

 

 

I sure wish you could show me something relevant to this discussion somewhere.. 

 

When i lookup induction heating, i just get information about coils, not straight shot wiring.

The tinsel lead is hooked to a coil homie..you have a rearword / back traveling EMF shooting back up the wire of the coil from the magnet being 'switched' and the cone moving back up..

 

Then the amplifier gates on the fets are telling it to go back down..when it's trying to go back up, and heat starts building up in the leads when the gates are switching at X frequency of the mosfets in the output stage.

 

This is a combination of the EMF trying to go out of the coil, through the tinsel leads, and back into the amplifier...and the amplifier trying to tell everything to go back the other way.

 

It crashes in the tinsel leads and that is where the stress point is, from movement, to heat, to high frequency noise, to EMF.

 

There's a whole host of issues all popping up at the exact same spot and if it all lines up the same way it glows and explodes.

 

 

You see an ice cube here, the coil around the ice cube is the exact same thing as the coil that is inside of the motor of the speaker..there's no difference there.