I've never used anything but my brain for setting amps for the past eight+ years. The only failure that I have had was my first set of subs hooked up by a shop with an oscope. After that I learned how to do it myself and use my head.

statements like that are plain ignorant so only dumb pepole use an  o-scope?

Did I say dumb anywhere? I was told by the shop where I could turn the volume and I listened, I was confident nothing would happen and it did. Is that the scopes fault? No it is my fault. I like how you say that I made an ignorant comment and then you put words in my mouth.

yes but thats too late by the time u can hear clipping thru a sub . all im saying is ive never seen anyone be able to detect exactly were the h.u. maximum clean signal is at then properly gain match the amps. have i seen pepole get close yes have i seen pepole set them @ a safe zone yes . the point im getting at is no possible way for the human ear to set gains like the o-scope can .

 

no dissrespect if you  can do all that by ear then u friend are the first .

yes but thats too late by the time u can hear clipping thru a sub . all im saying is ive never seen anyone be able to detect exactly were the h.u. maximum clean signal is at then properly gain match the amps. have i seen pepole get close yes have i seen pepole set them @ a safe zone yes . the point im getting at is no possible way for the human ear to set gains like the o-scope can .

 

no dissrespect if you  can do all that by ear then u friend are the first .

You are missing the point, a scope can do this for a tone but once you play ANYTHING else it is not accurately set for that content. Nothing is exact, a scope, a dd1, or the ear, but if you can learn to detect stress in your equipment you're set.

 

I've never used anything but my brain for setting amps for the past eight+ years. The only failure that I have had was my first set of subs hooked up by a shop with an oscope. After that I learned how to do it myself and use my head.

statements like that are plain ignorant so only dumb pepole use an  o-scope?

Did I say dumb anywhere? I was told by the shop where I could turn the volume and I listened, I was confident nothing would happen and it did. Is that the scopes fault? No it is my fault. I like how you say that I made an ignorant comment and then you put words in my mouth.

the way it came out sounded like thats wha u were saying . if you re read ur post it can be interprted as one with a brain does not need a scope .

 

 

I've never used anything but my brain for setting amps for the past eight+ years. The only failure that I have had was my first set of subs hooked up by a shop with an oscope. After that I learned how to do it myself and use my head.

statements like that are plain ignorant so only dumb pepole use an  o-scope?

Did I say dumb anywhere? I was told by the shop where I could turn the volume and I listened, I was confident nothing would happen and it did. Is that the scopes fault? No it is my fault. I like how you say that I made an ignorant comment and then you put words in my mouth.

the way it came out sounded like thats wha u were saying . if you re read ur post it can be interprted as one with a brain does not need a scope .

If it read that way then that isn't how I intended it to. I'm just trying to say that you can never set a gain at "x" point, with the deck set at "y", and have it be a safe, and maximum level for everything that you play. Some content could require a higher setting, and some lower.

yes but thats too late by the time u can hear clipping thru a sub . all im saying is ive never seen anyone be able to detect exactly were the h.u. maximum clean signal is at then properly gain match the amps. have i seen pepole get close yes have i seen pepole set them @ a safe zone yes . the point im getting at is no possible way for the human ear to set gains like the o-scope can .

 

no dissrespect if you  can do all that by ear then u friend are the first .

You are missing the point, a scope can do this for a tone but once you play ANYTHING else it is not accurately set for that content. Nothing is exact, a scope, a dd1, or the ear, but if you can learn to detect stress in your equipment you're set.

 

im not talking about setting anything exact for all types of music recording or conditions . all im saying is in todays high power amps and subs by the time u detect clipping or distortion by the ear is too late . not trying to argue but in order to get the most out of the system i feel it cant be done by ear is all...

 

yes but thats too late by the time u can hear clipping thru a sub . all im saying is ive never seen anyone be able to detect exactly were the h.u. maximum clean signal is at then properly gain match the amps. have i seen pepole get close yes have i seen pepole set them @ a safe zone yes . the point im getting at is no possible way for the human ear to set gains like the o-scope can .

 

no dissrespect if you  can do all that by ear then u friend are the first .

You are missing the point, a scope can do this for a tone but once you play ANYTHING else it is not accurately set for that content. Nothing is exact, a scope, a dd1, or the ear, but if you can learn to detect stress in your equipment you're set.

 

im not talking about setting anything exact for all types of music recording or conditions . all im saying is in todays high power amps and subs by the time u detect clipping or distortion by the ear is too late . not trying to argue but in order to get the most out of the system i feel it cant be done by ear is all...

 

 

 

You don't blow a driver the instant you hear clipping, in fact, most drivers will be able to handle clipping with no issue.  If you're setting your gain, and you detect clipping, turn it down.  Simple as that.  You're buying in to all the BS that sells this "tool" in the first place.  If you feel the need to waste your money on said "tool" for piece of mind, by all means do it. 

omg dd1 can go 2 hell~~~

 

 

 

 

 

I've never used anything but my brain for setting amps for the past eight+ years. The only failure that I have had was my first set of subs hooked up by a shop with an oscope. After that I learned how to do it myself and use my head.

statements like that are plain ignorant so only dumb pepole use an  o-scope?

Did I say dumb anywhere? I was told by the shop where I could turn the volume and I listened, I was confident nothing would happen and it did. Is that the scopes fault? No it is my fault. I like how you say that I made an ignorant comment and then you put words in my mouth.

the way it came out sounded like thats wha u were saying . if you re read ur post it can be interprted as one with a brain does not need a scope .

If it read that way then that isn't how I intended it to. I'm just trying to say that you can never set a gain at "x" point, with the deck set at "y", and have it be a safe, and maximum level for everything that you play. Some content could require a higher setting, and some lower.

yes sir i agree on that and i never meant that u can do that . what i menat is for years i was told that on h.u. one should never go past the 3/4 mark and that has been proven wrong some higher end units dont clip unless somebody is boosting the hell out of it .  all im saying is in order to get the most out of any system you need some sort of tool. yes tools only go so far a common sense and a good ear is needed

 

 

yes but thats too late by the time u can hear clipping thru a sub . all im saying is ive never seen anyone be able to detect exactly were the h.u. maximum clean signal is at then properly gain match the amps. have i seen pepole get close yes have i seen pepole set them @ a safe zone yes . the point im getting at is no possible way for the human ear to set gains like the o-scope can .

 

no dissrespect if you  can do all that by ear then u friend are the first .

You are missing the point, a scope can do this for a tone but once you play ANYTHING else it is not accurately set for that content. Nothing is exact, a scope, a dd1, or the ear, but if you can learn to detect stress in your equipment you're set.

 

im not talking about setting anything exact for all types of music recording or conditions . all im saying is in todays high power amps and subs by the time u detect clipping or distortion by the ear is too late . not trying to argue but in order to get the most out of the system i feel it cant be done by ear is all...

 

 

You don't blow a driver the instant you hear clipping, in fact, most drivers will be able to handle clipping with no issue.  If you're setting your gain, and you detect clipping, turn it down.  Simple as that.  You're buying in to all the BS that sells this "tool" in the first place.  If you feel the need to waste your money on said "tool" for piece of mind, by all means do it. 

 

i was not refering to the dd-1 . and really if you guys can get the most from your systems by ear more props i however beleave that is not the case for most and i will leave it @ that

agreed lol

sure when clipping to the point that the subs are stinking is easy to detect but itrs not that easy when u have 7k amp and soft to moderate clip ... my local shop made the same claim so i tested their ability and the gains were off and according to them the h.u. was not to be used past 3/4 and infact the h.u. has no clip and the gain was off

A couple points. Yes I read the rest of the thread first, but this post highlights the misconception you are having.

First, ignore whatever that shop told you. They no jack.

Second, if you want to detect a "moderate clip" to use your wording then please tell us why. I guarantee the DD-1 will still NOT be the tool to do so. I am also pretty sure that once you think about it you will realize how absurd it is to even want to, but perhaps you have a reason we haven't thought of and we'd love to hear it.

After you express that then share with us how you will detect it on other songs that aren't recorded at the same level of the song you were just listening to that had the "moderate clip". Then perhaps contemplate the answer to the why I had you answer above.

DD-1 is absolutely useless. Terrible if you want to compete and absolutely useless for something you just listen to music on. Pretty much means it isn't good for anything that I can think of. Did I miss something?

i was not refering to the dd-1 . and really if you guys can get the most from your systems by ear more props i however beleave that is not the case for most and i will leave it @ that

Ok, this post wasn't up when I responded.

And yes, absofuckinglutely you can get more from your system by not using the DD-1. If you search on this forum you will see where Steve Mead himself states that. It was his defense of it. Flat out state it isn't at all useful for competition since you will be leaving dB's on the table. Sort of the opposite of the goal of competing...

i was not refering to the dd-1 . and really if you guys can get the most from your systems by ear more props i however beleave that is not the case for most and i will leave it @ that

Ok, this post wasn't up when I responded.

And yes, absopuckinglutely you can get more from your system by not using the DD-1. If you search on this forum you will see where Steve Mead himself states that. It was his defense of it. Flat out state it isn't at all useful for competition since you will be leaving dB's on the table. Sort of the opposite of the goal of competing...

im not defending the dd-1 thats not my product and steves job . what i was getting at is the fact pepole can tune a system better by ear than a scope

sure when clipping to the point that the subs are stinking is easy to detect but itrs not that easy when u have 7k amp and soft to moderate clip ... my local shop made the same claim so i tested their ability and the gains were off and according to them the h.u. was not to be used past 3/4 and infact the h.u. has no clip and the gain was off

A couple points. Yes I read the rest of the thread first, but this post highlights the misconception you are having.

First, ignore whatever that shop told you. They no jack.

Second, if you want to detect a "moderate clip" to use your wording then please tell us why. I guarantee the DD-1 will still NOT be the tool to do so. I am also pretty sure that once you think about it you will realize how absurd it is to even want to, but perhaps you have a reason we haven't thought of and we'd love to hear it.

After you express that then share with us how you will detect it on other songs that aren't recorded at the same level of the song you were just listening to that had the "moderate clip". Then perhaps contemplate the answer to the why I had you answer above.

DD-1 is absolutely useless. Terrible if you want to compete and absolutely useless for something you just listen to music on. Pretty much means it isn't good for anything that I can think of. Did I miss something?

i will use this example my digital designs amp has a clip indicator on the remote and with my naked ear i cant tell soft clip nor moderate clip but full blown i can hear see and smell .  yes i know im a noob for using a remote and clip

Edited June 11, 201312 yr by caloriu

im not defending the dd-1 thats not my product and steves job . what i was getting at is the fact pepole can tune a system better by ear than a scope

Yes, of course the ear is better than the scope or the dd-1

sure when clipping to the point that the subs are stinking is easy to detect but itrs not that easy when u have 7k amp and soft to moderate clip ... my local shop made the same claim so i tested their ability and the gains were off and according to them the h.u. was not to be used past 3/4 and infact the h.u. has no clip and the gain was off

A couple points. Yes I read the rest of the thread first, but this post highlights the misconception you are having.

First, ignore whatever that shop told you. They no jack.

Second, if you want to detect a "moderate clip" to use your wording then please tell us why. I guarantee the DD-1 will still NOT be the tool to do so. I am also pretty sure that once you think about it you will realize how absurd it is to even want to, but perhaps you have a reason we haven't thought of and we'd love to hear it.

After you express that then share with us how you will detect it on other songs that aren't recorded at the same level of the song you were just listening to that had the "moderate clip". Then perhaps contemplate the answer to the why I had you answer above.

DD-1 is absolutely useless. Terrible if you want to compete and absolutely useless for something you just listen to music on. Pretty much means it isn't good for anything that I can think of. Did I miss something?

i will use this example my digital designs amp has a clip indicator on the remote and with my naked ear i cant tell soft clip nor moderate clip but full blown i can hear see and smell .  yes i know im a noob for using a remote and clip

Clip indicator doesn't work either.

Again, instead of trying to worry so much about determining clipping why don't you tell us why you care.

clipping creates heat that ultimately leads to blown coils (on subs) clipping combined with low volatge blows amps . you cant seem to get passed the dd-1 so im not defending the product never did . im bebating the part where the human ear can get the most out of the system. i had 2 subs on 14k and i was clipping and i never realized it untill i jammed for a few songs and then could smell it .

Edited June 11, 201312 yr by caloriu

What do you mean by most and for what circumstance?

If the circumstance is for driving around listening to music, then absolutely by far the ear is best.

clipping creates heat that ultimately leads to blown coils (on subs) clipping combined with low volatge blows amps . you cant seem to get passed the dd-1 so im not defending the product never did . im bebating the part where the hum,an ear can get the most out of the system.

Clipping will only hurt the driver if the driver can not thermally handle it.  This of course will happen over time.  I believe Shizzon mentioned this a couple pages back.  No issues with blowing your amplifier.  Your low voltage will hurt it more than anything, and any good amplifier will have protection and shut off before a low voltage situation does any harm. 

clipping creates heat that ultimately leads to blown coils (on subs) clipping combined with low volatge blows amps . you cant seem to get passed the dd-1 so im not defending the product never did . im bebating the part where the hum,an ear can get the most out of the system.

Clipping will only hurt the driver if the driver can not thermally handle it.  This of course will happen over time.  I believe Shizzon mentioned this a couple pages back.  No issues with blowing your amplifier.  Your low voltage will hurt it more than anything, and any good amplifier will have protection and shut off before a low voltage situation does any harm. 

agreed it takes time and i never siad it would happen right away simply replying to why clippping its important to me . to me if your clipping the amp it creates heat ,efficency drop combine that to low imp and voltage drop and the amp blows before it shuts off.

agreed it takes time and i never siad it would happen right away simply replying to why clippping its important to me

What amount of clipping is important to you?

I removed your efficiency comments as they don't make sense and until we conquer the reasons why you are so interested in clipping it is pointless to discuss anything else.

You aren't hearing clipping. That is impossible. You are hearing the driver being driven past its mechanical limits in its environment due to the extra power being sent to it.

On most all testing devices it is impossible to test class d amplifiers due to slew rate limiting caused by the switching process. For the price I highly doubt the DD1 or any other hobbyist's s ope will be able to either.

clipping creates heat that ultimately leads to blown coils (on subs) clipping combined with low volatge blows amps . you cant seem to get passed the dd-1 so im not defending the product never did . im bebating the part where the human ear can get the most out of the system. i had 2 subs on 14k and i was clipping and i never realized it untill i jammed for a few songs and then could smell it .

The problem is you are giving yourself a false sense of correctness by setting the gain with some instrument.  Everything is a guess...from the accuracy of the equipment (and seeing clipping in the waveform on a lower end 'scope usually used isn't as precise as the internet would lead you to believe), to the "proper" level setting (test tone recording level), to the actual power output of the amplifier as conditions change, to the proper level matching between the system and thermal/mechanical abilities of the drivers in your install, to personal preference, to the varying source material....from start to finish it's based on nothing but assumptions and guesswork.  It's a fundamentally inaccurate process no matter which tool you put behind the amplifier.  And by using that tool you are fooling yourself into thinking it's "right".  The best results, all things considered, are going to come from the user listening and making a determination on appropriate gain setting.  No tool is going to get it right, so why even bother?  So you can trick yourself into thinking it's "right" when it's not ?

 

Ok, so you set the gain by ear and thought it was fine until things got smelly.  So, what the hell is the big deal with backing off of it a little bit?  Still stinky?  Back off a bit more until things are good.  You had 14K on a pair of drivers....yeah, things will get stinky.  So what if you undershoot power by 20% of it's capabilities?  You aren't going to hear a difference, and if you are worried about results on a meter than no tool is going to help you there anyways.  If you can't hear the clipping, it doesn't matter audibly.  If you have it set so high that you're damaging things then you let it go way too long and were really fucking far off.....learning experience that no tool was likely going to save you from anyways since you wouldn't have understood the inaccuracies and limitations involved in the use of that tool.   

 

I've never used anything other than my ears to set a gain, and I've blown 1 pair of subs almost 15 years ago.  That's out of setting up and tinkering with probably a hundred stereos for myself and friends.  It really isn't as hard to figure out as people fear.

I don't listen to 40hz test tones, hence why it is pointless for music.