Its funny that if I wanted to I could get the same measuring equipment that zenon uses for just over 10k including two 400 amp power supplies directly from the same company they got theirs from. my point was he uses several fluke and ue meters all which are 1% tolerance by manufacture stipulations. and incase you don't know both ue and fluke are the same company both of which are owned by matco tools.

Im not here to argue but as I stated before I believe tfade is just getting an idea of the power and has never claimed itt was or is an exact measurement  of the output of the amplifier. His testing methods are consistant and he has plenty of amperage and voltage to back up any amp. I believe everyone is forgetint the fact that he has stated many times its not exact and is meant for just an idea of power.

Its funny that if I wanted to I could get the same measuring equipment that zenon uses for just over 10k including two 400 amp power supplies directly from the same company they got theirs from. my point was he uses several fluke and ue meters all which are 1% tolerance by manufacture stipulations. and incase you don't know both ue and fluke are the same company both of which are owned by matco tools.

Im not here to argue but as I stated before I believe tfade is just getting an idea of the power and has never claimed itt was or is an exact measurement  of the output of the amplifier. His testing methods are consistant and he has plenty of amperage and voltage to back up any amp. I believe everyone is forgetint the fact that he has stated many times its not exact and is meant for just an idea of power.

Wow. I hope you have no influence on the design of any of your products.

Citing the meter is laughable as that is the easily calibrated portion of the test. Measuring voltage is rather simple.

im glad you like to misconceive everything that is written and argue so much. its a perfect example of being closed minded. there is more than one way to skin a cat. seems as you would rather be condescending upon people than anything else. thanks again for proving my point for me. I hope you are not the hero for anyone on this forum as it would simply be self condescending upon themselves.

lol 

im glad you like to misconceive everything that is written and argue so much. its a perfect example of being closed minded. there is more than one way to skin a cat. seems as you would rather be condescending upon people than anything else. thanks again for proving my point for me. I hope you are not the hero for anyone on this forum as it would simply be self condescending upon themselves.

Pot meet kettle.

The amusing part is an argument occurs when people discuss different views and when your view ignores science and fact it is pretty funny to keep commenting.

And yes, I must be closed minded. I discredited a clamp test. Only fucking morons would say that a clamp test doesn't measure power...Perhaps you can open my mind. Why not share why it is a valid test instead of spouting it is because X did it and X knows his shit. Understanding is the key to opening a mind and if there is something that the forum should be open to why not share? You sure haven't so far.

First off show me where I said it was a valid test or that I agreed with it. I only pointed out the fact that you spout off why its invalid with no science of why and what to use to make it valid. I am glad you continue on with this as it shows you can not read as well as well as interpret what has been posted. I am sorry that you want to try and make people look bad but by doing so just like in this case you just continue to give this forum a bad name. Its a perfect example of why others talk so bad about this forum even after its owned by 2 guys that work their asses off to keep great customer service for their customers. Its a shame....lol....

But the tech team said it's not accurate so it must not be

But the tech team said it's not accurate so it must not be

 

Exactly. If you challenge them, then you're %100 wrong. 

 

 

 

 

This whole thread is dancing in circles. The tools used to do these tests are published. It's not like they're hiding... If you're so worried about certain things, go fucking look them up. Also, it wasn't just a "clamp test" But lets only focus on one aspect of this whole damn thing. God forbid we open our eyes wider

 

 

This shit reminds me about the argument over linear vs progressive spiders. Shit was completely ridiculous. You guys focus on one little aspect.

A lot your guy's responses remind me of soup sandwiches. 

 

 

Yeap, I have no idea what's going on. I'm completely clueless. By no means have I been bashing or soiling Nick or IA's rep. I have no reason to that. Maybe you guys forget what they've done for me. I haven't. No one has answered my questions yet but I knew that would happen. It's always a dick measuring contest. Who can be the better sarcastic prick! Soup sandwich. 

Going through I don't think they meant you were bashing the company/nick but others. I don't see how they're being sarcastic. Impious, tirefryr and shizzzon were trying to explain. M5 was the only one being sarcastic and was only doing it because tenacious is annoying and ignorant.

I don't understand why you guys don't listen to these guys...

 

 

Zero tact and constantly talking in circles rather than being direct. Discredits whatever they see fit without truly explaining why everyone else should discredit. They act as though they're %100 right, but fail to fully disclose why they are correct and someone else is incorrect. They scream tolerances and calibrations yet never give any real numbers. They never ask what the given tools  tolerances are and if they have been calibrated or when the last time they were calibrated. Just because you have technical training behind you and some real world exercise, doesn't mean you have the right to discredit everyone else. It's easy to sit behind a computer and seem all so intelligent. There's a common factor of why a lot of people don't like this forum.  

Maybe you should go and seek some education and then you might understand just how much money, time, equipment, etc... goes into testing, measuring, certifying etc. Right now it seems that all these guys are "talking circles rather then being direct" but you clearly do not understand this subject.  Once you go out and find the necessary knowledge, then you will realize how right these few guys are.  Until then, argue on and have fun!! 

 

 

 

I more than understand this subject. This shit is simple, yet you tech team dick riders and "tech team" want to make this complicated. Maybe you should take some laxative and the rest of the tech team to get rid of the bull shit you guys are full of. I swear you guys could ruin a wet dream because one of her nails was .05mm too long.  

 

 

 

Yeap, I have no idea what's going on. I'm completely clueless. By no means have I been bashing or soiling Nick or IA's rep. I have no reason to that. Maybe you guys forget what they've done for me. I haven't. No one has answered my questions yet but I knew that would happen. It's always a dick measuring contest. Who can be the better sarcastic prick! Soup sandwich. 

Going through I don't think they meant you were bashing the company/nick but others. I don't see how they're being sarcastic. Impious, tirefryr and shizzzon were trying to explain. M5 was the only one being sarcastic and was only doing it because tenacious is annoying and ignorant.

I don't understand why you guys don't listen to these guys...

 

 

Zero tact and constantly talking in circles rather than being direct. Discredits whatever they see fit without truly explaining why everyone else should discredit. They act as though they're %100 right, but fail to fully disclose why they are correct and someone else is incorrect. They scream tolerances and calibrations yet never give any real numbers. They never ask what the given tools  tolerances are and if they have been calibrated or when the last time they were calibrated. Just because you have technical training behind you and some real world exercise, doesn't mean you have the right to discredit everyone else. It's easy to sit behind a computer and seem all so intelligent. There's a common factor of why a lot of people don't like this forum.  

Maybe you should go and seek some education and then you might understand just how much money, time, equipment, etc... goes into testing, measuring, certifying etc. Right now it seems that all these guys are "talking circles rather then being direct" but you clearly do not understand this subject.  Once you go out and find the necessary knowledge, then you will realize how right these few guys are.  Until then, argue on and have fun!! 

 

 

 

I more than understand this subject. This shit is simple, yet you tech team dick riders and "tech team" want to make this complicated. Maybe you should take some laxative and the rest of the tech team to get rid of the bull shit you guys are full of. I swear you guys could ruin a wet dream because one of her nails was .05mm too long.  

 

 

You understand the subject? How about you present your credentials? Perhaps you can share with the forum how to properly conduct amplifier testing? 

 

Thats right, you can't even begin to describe how to conduct any scientific testing, can you? 

Keep your childish comments to yourself. this thread was really informative until you guys got your little feelings hurt. 

But the tech team said it's not accurate so it must not be

 

Exactly. If you challenge them, then you're %100 wrong. 

 

 

 

 

This whole thread is dancing in circles. The tools used to do these tests are published. It's not like they're hiding... If you're so worried about certain things, go fucking look them up. Also, it wasn't just a "clamp test" But lets only focus on one aspect of this whole damn thing. God forbid we open our eyes wider

 

 

This shit reminds me about the argument over linear vs progressive spiders. Shit was completely ridiculous. You guys focus on one little aspect.

 

the burden of proof is always on those who made the claim. in this case the person who conducted the testing. he is responsible for providing accurate information. in simple terms, the results of his clamp test are invalid because they are not complete results (and any conclusions or comparisons he makes are not only false but misleading). this should be very easy to understand. 

Edited January 5, 201411 yr by lithium

 

 

 

Yeap, I have no idea what's going on. I'm completely clueless. By no means have I been bashing or soiling Nick or IA's rep. I have no reason to that. Maybe you guys forget what they've done for me. I haven't. No one has answered my questions yet but I knew that would happen. It's always a dick measuring contest. Who can be the better sarcastic prick! Soup sandwich. 

Going through I don't think they meant you were bashing the company/nick but others. I don't see how they're being sarcastic. Impious, tirefryr and shizzzon were trying to explain. M5 was the only one being sarcastic and was only doing it because tenacious is annoying and ignorant.

I don't understand why you guys don't listen to these guys...

 

 

Zero tact and constantly talking in circles rather than being direct. Discredits whatever they see fit without truly explaining why everyone else should discredit. They act as though they're %100 right, but fail to fully disclose why they are correct and someone else is incorrect. They scream tolerances and calibrations yet never give any real numbers. They never ask what the given tools  tolerances are and if they have been calibrated or when the last time they were calibrated. Just because you have technical training behind you and some real world exercise, doesn't mean you have the right to discredit everyone else. It's easy to sit behind a computer and seem all so intelligent. There's a common factor of why a lot of people don't like this forum.  

Maybe you should go and seek some education and then you might understand just how much money, time, equipment, etc... goes into testing, measuring, certifying etc. Right now it seems that all these guys are "talking circles rather then being direct" but you clearly do not understand this subject.  Once you go out and find the necessary knowledge, then you will realize how right these few guys are.  Until then, argue on and have fun!! 

 

 

 

I more than understand this subject. This shit is simple, yet you tech team dick riders and "tech team" want to make this complicated. Maybe you should take some laxative and the rest of the tech team to get rid of the bull shit you guys are full of. I swear you guys could ruin a wet dream because one of her nails was .05mm too long.  

Yet, every post you make shows how little you do understand and your inability to comprehend.   If you understood what was happening and comprehended what has actually been discussed and challenged here, you would never have posted.  You keep stating people are typing in circles, yet the ones whom keep complaining about it are in fact the ones doing it.  Everything has been explained to you;  you just won't allow yourself to understand it as you would have to admit to yourself that you don't really know as much as you think you do.  Don't get upset, this happens to us all.   How about taking a step back, and just thinking, these guys ARE right and why they are.  

 

The simple fact is, the man who did the "testing" and posted this information is simply a hobbyist.  His results can not be relied on, yet many people whom don't understand this WILL rely on his "testing" simply because they don't know any better.  As long as there are uncontrollable variables, the "testing" is pointless.  If ANY of us conducted this "testing" in a similar matter, the "tests" would also be invalid.   If these "tests" were being conducted by a lab, by a professional, all testing parameters would have laid out, explained, and discussed in length before any testing had begun.  Than and only then could the results be relied upon and only after many amplifiers had been tested not just one or ten.

Another fact, man who did the testing came on here and didn't say squat. Tells a story now doesn't it. If he now decides to post, may his first post just share the uncertainty in his measurement.

Here is my analogy again, but now with graphics.

You need to measure length. Here is your tool.

If you report that what you measure is 3 63/128" of an inch we will laugh at you. If you report 3 63/128" +/-1/4" it would be nearly acceptable although a rather strange way to report.

And the sad part is, the actual claim is off WAY further than my analogy. Do the math once and you will understand. If you can't do the math, you don't understand the measurement obviously which really gives your posts credibility.

 

 

 

 

Yeap, I have no idea what's going on. I'm completely clueless. By no means have I been bashing or soiling Nick or IA's rep. I have no reason to that. Maybe you guys forget what they've done for me. I haven't. No one has answered my questions yet but I knew that would happen. It's always a dick measuring contest. Who can be the better sarcastic prick! Soup sandwich. 

Going through I don't think they meant you were bashing the company/nick but others. I don't see how they're being sarcastic. Impious, tirefryr and shizzzon were trying to explain. M5 was the only one being sarcastic and was only doing it because tenacious is annoying and ignorant.

I don't understand why you guys don't listen to these guys...

 

 

Zero tact and constantly talking in circles rather than being direct. Discredits whatever they see fit without truly explaining why everyone else should discredit. They act as though they're %100 right, but fail to fully disclose why they are correct and someone else is incorrect. They scream tolerances and calibrations yet never give any real numbers. They never ask what the given tools  tolerances are and if they have been calibrated or when the last time they were calibrated. Just because you have technical training behind you and some real world exercise, doesn't mean you have the right to discredit everyone else. It's easy to sit behind a computer and seem all so intelligent. There's a common factor of why a lot of people don't like this forum.  

Maybe you should go and seek some education and then you might understand just how much money, time, equipment, etc... goes into testing, measuring, certifying etc. Right now it seems that all these guys are "talking circles rather then being direct" but you clearly do not understand this subject.  Once you go out and find the necessary knowledge, then you will realize how right these few guys are.  Until then, argue on and have fun!! 

 

 

 

I more than understand this subject. This shit is simple, yet you tech team dick riders and "tech team" want to make this complicated. Maybe you should take some laxative and the rest of the tech team to get rid of the bull shit you guys are full of. I swear you guys could ruin a wet dream because one of her nails was .05mm too long.  

Yet, every post you make shows how little you do understand and your inability to comprehend.   If you understood what was happening and comprehended what has actually been discussed and challenged here, you would never have posted.  You keep stating people are typing in circles, yet the ones whom keep complaining about it are in fact the ones doing it.  Everything has been explained to you;  you just won't allow yourself to understand it as you would have to admit to yourself that you don't really know as much as you think you do.  Don't get upset, this happens to us all.   How about taking a step back, and just thinking, these guys ARE right and why they are.  

 

The simple fact is, the man who did the "testing" and posted this information is simply a hobbyist.  His results can not be relied on, yet many people whom don't understand this WILL rely on his "testing" simply because they don't know any better.  As long as there are uncontrollable variables, the "testing" is pointless.  If ANY of us conducted this "testing" in a similar matter, the "tests" would also be invalid.   If these "tests" were being conducted by a lab, by a professional, all testing parameters would have laid out, explained, and discussed in length before any testing had begun.  Than and only then could the results be relied upon and only after many amplifiers had been tested not just one or ten.

 

What you idiots don't understand, is I understand what you guys are saying. It's not I'm trying to understand swahili. I've not claimed I know everything, I've not claimed you guys are wrong, I've not claimed Taylor is %100 right. Most of the information requested is readily available. Even if you're testing in a lab, there can still be unforeseen variables. Slight change in humidity, maybe the temperature dropped two degrees. First test netted you 9,620 watts, then all of a sudden your next test nets 9,800. This test wasn't to be accurate down to a millionth.  Just because it didn't go directly over second base, doesn't mean it's a foul ball or of the park. CEA testing is about as useless as tits on a hog. 

lol. This thread makes me think back to my engineering measurement lab papers.

 

It's been a while since I've read audio forum drama. I'm glad I could get a laugh.

I hate that other forum..

What you idiots don't understand, is I understand what you guys are saying. It's not I'm trying to understand swahili. I've not claimed I know everything, I've not claimed you guys are wrong, I've not claimed Taylor is 0 right. Most of the information requested is readily available. Even if you're testing in a lab, there can still be unforeseen variables. Slight change in humidity, maybe the temperature dropped two degrees. First test netted you 9,620 watts, then all of a sudden your next test nets 9,800. This test wasn't to be accurate down to a millionth.  Just because it didn't go directly over second base, doesn't mean it's a foul ball or of the park. CEA testing is about as useless as tits on a hog.

Umm, obviously you don't. This is what started the thread and what we are discussing.

Clamp test are meaningless.....

Followed by this.

It wasn't just a "clamp test" There was a "clamp test" done. Taylor has a new scope on the way and will retest. There's very few people whom I would trust in the car audio world, but Taylor is one of them. I've seen his amp test setup. It's not a red neck garage. Hopefully the retest will reveal  some better results. The NS-1 didn't do so well either, but it's also designed as a high voltage amp.

And on top of it, if you did you wouldn't have posted about the temperature. No shit sherlock that is part of the UNCERTAINTY that hasn't been shared. Open your mind for once and think instead of reciting some garbage you misinterpreted. Metrology is very scientific and VERY easy to understand. I don't quite see why this is confusing to those attempting to make this an argument.

Here we go talking about misinterpretation...lol...so now we all know that you can misread or misinterpret or just not understand what you read as was so shown last night. It takes a real man to admit his faults and a real coward to hide from his faults. Where do you lay?

AD-1 would solve this bs.

I sense butthurt

I sense butthurt

I sense you starting to get into the troll realm considering you already said you had no reason to post on this thread anymore...

I see all of this as pointless bickering at this point, the point has been proven for all parties.

I sense butthurt

I sense you starting to get into the troll realm considering you already said you had no reason to post on this thread anymore...

I see all of this as pointless bickering at this point, the point has been proven for all parties.

The point is, this test is neither pinpoint accurate or inaccurate to the point of being invalid. It was performed to give a general idea of amplifier power. And it does just that. Everyone can dance around that fact all that they want, but it's still true.

I sense butthurt

I sense you starting to get into the troll realm considering you already said you had no reason to post on this thread anymore...

I see all of this as pointless bickering at this point, the point has been proven for all parties.

The point is, this test is neither pinpoint accurate or inaccurate to the point of being invalid. It was performed to give a general idea of amplifier power. And it does just that. Everyone can dance around that fact all that they want, but it's still true.

It's not true, now matter how many times you type it.

And that clearly is not how people are interpreting the results consider the number of people using this test as "proof" the amp is "over rated", and then apparently using this single test to question the integrity of the entire brand.

Blind leading the blind.

You are getting very close!  

 

Now the only part is to understand that you cannot negatively comment on the amp's proposed poor performance from the test because it's currently impossible to tell that from the test.  Especially since it was retested at 14.6v, with uncertainty, and jumped to over 10,000w.

 

Point is.. like u said, to give a general idea.

 

And the funny thing is, many people think, tought or believe the uncertainty tested result from test 1 is so far off from rated power that it's impossible to prove it's proper rating.

 

Nope.. 

I hope everyone has learned not to trust these tests as facts especially from the drama of this particular product.