Sundown Technical

We had too many sticky posts... so this thread will simply link to the power testing threads all in one post: ONLY CURRENT MODELS WILL BE LINKED. UPDATED SAZ-1000D and new SAZ-2000D threads coming soon. * SAZ-3500D Power Testing * SAZ-1500D Power Testing * SAE-1000D Power Testing (SAZ-1000D numbers are withing a few %) UPDATED 7-20-09

Originally posted over on SMD to answer a question - but I figured some folks over here may enjoy it as well : I need Bl/Bl Curve Explained - SMD Forum You will typically need a Klippel or DUMAX to measure the BL curve. You can assumme, though, that most overhung (long coils) at quite parabolic in nature... most under-hung have a flat spot in the center and then become parabolic. There are ways around this... Alpine flattens it out nicely in the new Type-R with some clever pole machine work: They machined in a bell shape inside the pole that flattens out the BL curve in the center -- here is an image from their patent: ---------- Some other examples below. First we have…

Got them all together... they are measured after ~5 minutes of break-in time. You will see the CMS loosen up another 33% after some serious play time which will both reduce the FS and Qts figures of the drivers. These are the latest versions with shorting rings (hence lower Le figures). Otherwise identical to prior SA models in T/S specs. Some Re variance is shown based on coil temperature from break-in period. D2 is closer to 4.0 in series and D4 7.0 in series at room temperature. ----- 10" D2 Re: 4.29 ohms Fs: 35.4 Hz VAS: 10.13 L Qes: 0.52 Qms: 5.41 Qts: 0.48 Le: 3.41 mH BL: 20.40 NA Mms: 230 g Cms: 87.8 uM/N Sens: 81.0 dB 1w/1m 10" D4 Re:7.08 ohms Fs: 36.6 Hz VAS: 10.…

REGULAR VOLTAGE TESTING: Made a separate topic for regular voltage testing. Hopefully I can get more in-depth testing with a stronger electrical system soon. ----------- COMMENT 7-20-09 : These are results with OLD meters... do not compare directly to new testing. Will update this with new equipment. Pyramid 50 Amp Power Supply 8 AWG from supply to batteries Kinetik 2400 Battery Duralast 1000 CA Battery 2 AWG between batteries 4 AWG from batteries to amp Fluke AC current / voltage meter Sears DMM Measurements: 65.8 volts 49.2 Amps 1.33 ohm calculated rise from 0.6 ohm DCR ** 3237 Watts 14.4 volts rest dropping to 10.75 volts ** - Rise was higher than when I tested the 15…

Have had a few people ask for a comparison and I happened to get one in for trade -- so here it is. Not sure if this is factory or from the repair but the AQ also uses Fairchild output parts vs. IRF parts: * SAZ-3500D is a bit longer and wider * SAZ-3500D has 20 caps in PS section vs. 16 in the AQ * Another view of the power supplies in comparison * Output sections : Output inductors are equal, SAZ-3500D uses 16 outputs vs. 12 in the AQ * SAZ-3500D Transformers compared to a dollar bill * AQ-3500D Transformers compared to a dollar bill

After getting several e-mails and calls about Sensitivity of subwoofers and seeing quite a bit of forum action regarding sensitivity I've decided to post this up... Sensitivity does not = Efficiency on a subwoofer on LOW bass. This is regarding industry standard sensitivity measured at 1khz -- this is where the spec is measure on 99.9% of speakers in the world. Hoffman's Iron Law dictates that out of sensitivity, small box size, and low-end extension you can pick two and the other suffers. In car audio, especially, you want small box and good low-end so sensitivity will typically be lower than a home audio woofer -- where you can use a large box and then have both high se…

People ask me this alot... the short answer is that they make the speaker better. The long answer can be shown on some graphs. This graph shows inductance over excursion for a basic motor design. The center is at rest, left is rear stroke, and right is forward stroke. Why is the graph shaped this way ? Have you ever looked at inductors for a crossover ? You can get a high value in a small package with an iron core. So... what is a speaker motor ? A partially iron core inductor! As the coil moves back it gets more iron in the core! So the inductance rises. As it moves forward it gets more air in the core so it drops. Pretty cool, huh ? Now... the field can be absorbed by …

1) My amps work fine un-strapped but go into protection when strapped and/or my amps are stuck in protection. - 3/8/07 I have had three customers with this complaint. All three of them replaced their RCA cables to remedy the problem. Some model Stinger and Memphis RCA cables will NOT work with the SAZ-1500D, *especially* for the jumper RCA from master to slave based on the feedback I have received. Be advised... this should be the FIRST thing you check if your strapped pair is going into protection. It will usually be the slave going into protection if this is the case... but not always. ------------------------------ 2) I want to strap my amp at the lowest possible load,…

Will be updating this as we move along building one of each. Each one will be relatively fresh with ~5 minutes of break-in time playing low frequencies on our bench 1500D. Amount of break-in between coil configurations isn't necessarily identical -- check CMS, a lower number indicates the suspension is still tighter. Stock 3 Hard Spider Suspension on each model with "daily" stock coils. Measured with Woofer Tester II unit ---------- 10" D2: RE: 3.92 ohms Fs: 50.9 Hz Qes: 0.51 Qms: 12.72 Qts: 0.49 Le: 7.06 mH Vas: 5.9 L BL: 25.89 NA Cms: 35.75 uM/N Mms: 272 grams Sens: 83.72 dB ---------- 10" D1: RE: 1.98 ohms Fs: 51.19 Hz Qes: 0.60 Qms: 13.06 Qts: 0.57 Le: 3.22 mH Vas: 5.…

Finally got it done -- something I've wanted to do for quite some time now. Our published X-Max is dead on by both BL and CMS definitions -- we publish 19mm one-way travel. Inductive performance is above average as well. Our published T/S specs are also very well close to the Klippel data -- the one we sent in was just a tad less broken in than the unit published on our site so the Klippel FS was a few Hz higher but as you can tell if you know about the effects of break-in it will settle right in to exactly what we say Those that don't look at Klippel often may note the BL curve is slightly to one side -- this is not unusual in production tolerance. The shift represent…

Realized that I don't have them on the site or anywhere easy to find at the moment -- so here we go : D2 Model : RE: 3.28 ohms (series) FS: 41.6 Hz Qes: 0.513 Qms: 6.606 Qts: 0.476 Le: 2.778 mH Vas: 3.285 L BL: 17.138 N/A Cms: 83.341 um/N Mms: 175.654 g Sens: 78.476 dB @ 1w/1m BL^2/RE: 89.5 D4 Model : RE: 6.08 ohms Fs: 44.66 Hz Qes: 0.594 Qms: 6.337 Qts: 0.545 Le: 4.26 mH VAS: 4.44 L BL: 21.20 N/A Cms: 80.8 uM/N Mms: 157 g Sens: 80.06 @ 1w/1m BL^2/RE: 73.92

The first generation Z v.2 use a 4-layer aluminum coil -- specs listed below. Newer Z v.2 use copper coils -- specs posted here : http://www.caraudioclassifieds.org/forum/showthread.php?t=50823 D1 specs will be very similar -- D2 specs can be used to design the enclosures no problem. ---------- 10" D2: RE: 3.88 ohms Fs: 51.69 Hz Qes: 0.474 Qms: 7.04 Qts: 0.444 Le: 2.53 mH Vas: 7.31 L BL: 24.01 NA Cms: 43.77 um/N Mms: 216.53 g Sens: 85.12 dB 1w/1m ---------- 12" D2: RE: 3.72 ohms Fs: 37.54 Hz Qes: 0.409 Qms: 6.82 Qts: 0.386 Le: 2.8 mH Vas: 23.95 L BL: 24.07 NA Cms: 66.43 uM/N Mms: 270.43 g Sens: 86.74 dB 1w/1m ---------- 15" D2: RE: 3.8 ohms Fs: 36.83 Hz Qes: 0.376 Qms: 3.…

Will be updating this as we move along building one of each. The copper coil is STANDARD on all new Z v.2 woofers -- it replaces the old 4-layer aluminum coil. Each one will be relatively fresh with ~5 minutes of break-in time playing low frequencies on our bench 1500D. Stock 2 Spider Suspension on each model with the standard 4-layer round wire biflair copper coils. Measured with Woofer Tester II unit ---------- 10" D2: RE: 3.93 ohms Fs: 44.8 Hz Qes: 0.37 Qms: 8.59 Qts: 0.35 Le: 3.65 mH Vas: 8.58 L BL: 27.14 NA Cms: 51.36 uM/N Mms: 245 g Sens: 85.04 dB ---------- 10" D1: RE: 2.29 ohms Fs: 44.95 Hz Qes: 0.33 Qms: 7.39 Qts: 0.31 Le: 2.57 mH Vas: 7.61 L BL: 23.19 NA Cms: 45…

We did some comparative testing between all the Sundown Audio SAZ series amplifiers today. The saz-1000d, saz-1500d, saz-2000d, and the saz-3000d. Guts of the new saz-1000d. This thing is a lil powerhouse. All testing was done in my '93 Explorer Sport on a single stock Sundown NightShade 15". The weather was very cold today down in the 30s. My peak frquency was off cause of the cold and overall I was down 0.8db with all amps but this test was only for comparison purposes anyways just to show the difference on the TL from one to the other. Up first the lil saz-1000d. It's so cute! Then the saz-1500d. 1.5db gain in a direct swap. Next is the saz-2000d. A…

I am going to go through and drop the SAZ-1000D, SAE-1200D, SAZ-1500D, SAZ-2000D, SAZ-3000D, and SAZ-3500D in the Jeep and do a power clamp test so we have a rough and UNIFORM comparison between the amps in the same setup. Test Frequency - 50 Hz Test Load - 4x SA-12s all in parallel for 0.4375 DCR (1/2 nominal) Test Electrical - 6x Stinger SPV-70 + 225-Amp Alternator (vehicle only at idle) Amp gain set to 1/2 - Head Unit Sub Control 10/10 - Head Unit Volume 50/50 Setting gain to half on each amp is, of course, not an exact match... but for the sake of roughly comparing the amps I think it serves the purpose. --------------- SAZ-1000D: POWER : 1040 Watts AMP VOLTAGE (mea…

I had Brandon measure these -- so any input let me know before we get the round of site updates completed. Cut-Out / Depth / Outside Diameter SA Series 15 - 14 1/8" -- 7 1/2" -- 15 5/8" 12 - 11 1/8" -- 6 1/2" -- 12 5/8" 10 - 9 1/4" -- 6" -- 10 1/2" 8 (12-spoke) -- 7 3/8" -- 5 1/2" -- 8 1/2" 8 (4 leg) -- 7 1/4" NS v.2 Series 18 - 16 3/4" -- 11 1/4" -- 18 3/8" 15 - 14 1/8" -- 10 1/4" -- 15 5/8" 12 - 11 1/8" -- 9 7/8" -- 12 5/8" 10 - 9 1/4" -- 8 1/4" -- 10 3/4" Z v.2 Series 18 - 16 3/4" -- 10 3/8" -- 18 3/8" 15 - 14 1/8" -- 8 7/8" -- 15 5/8" 12 - 11 1/8" -- 7 3/4" -- 12 5/8" 10 - 9 1/4" -- 7 3/8" -- 10 3/4" E8 v.2 Series 8 - 7 1/4" -- 4 9/16" -- 8 1/4" * Terminals may stick …

SAE-600d - Is it a 4 or 8 gauge power input? I am reducing the system in my daily driver now that I have a project vehicle. So I don't need all of that heavy 1/0 gauge in my little jetta. I will keep the big 3, but want to reduce the main line running to the back of the car. Going to use a 600d to power a single SD2-12D2 in a birch box to save a bit of weight, and lift the ass of my car a hair. The SA-10s will move to a Blazer, until I can get 4 SA-12s or 15s.

I've searched around for the gain information for sundown but I haven't been able to find it. I just received a SAX-1200D and I'm unsure about some of the gains. Is there a thread that goes in depth about Sundowns gains? I'm unsure how I should set them I wont get my sub for another week though so I cant trial and error. Can someone lead me in the right direction? Pictures help out a lot! Thanks, Trevor

I recently received another 3000D for my setup... but it was damaged by ups. I am definitely not going to run this amp period until it is fixed, but I was wondering what the parts listed do and what the effects are if the amps are ran without these parts. Db-r said that the amp can play at low to moderate levels without side effects.... Just wondering what would happen. One of the main rail caps are missing along with one of the blue rectangular ones being half broken off.

I cannot find anything for the box requirements for any of the woofers, it'd be nice if you could post all of them up Thanks!

THIS IS FOR WOOFERS WITH THE PLASTIC CENTERING CAP ** If you do not have the centering cap use Amazing Goop for the dust cap ** Seems people have ALOT of problems putting caps on their re-cones so this is how it is done : Buy two of these containers of Loctite FIVE MINUTE epoxy w/ mixing tubes at Lowes (DO NOT USE ONE MINUTE): ---------- First Step : http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/how-to/Nightshade_Dust_Cap/CIMG2514.MOV Put epoxy around the edges of the disc as shown - make sure to get a good bit in the little holes so it is filled in. ---------- Second Step: Wait about 5 minutes for the first step to dry. http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/how-to/Nightshade_Dust_Cap/CIM…

this is a really crazy question but is it possible to get re-cones for the new sa-8 v2 in diffrenet colors? i have had a few people ask me this and i told them i would have to ask. thanks,

I'm aware that each SAZ-3500 might have a slight difference in power but.. Generally, what would the output be at 1ohm while at 13.5v? I'm also interested in knowing the same information with the current SAZ-4500D.

I want to know the mount depth for these subwoofers. Not listed on the website.

Was wondering if the remote gain cable for my 3500 is the same as other remote cables? Reason I ask is my cable for me crossfire vr4000d is still under my carpet in the middle of my car and instead of running the one that came with the 3500 I could just use the old cable? Ends look the same as to the wire color in them and placement .