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You might want to step your game up and go for the 100.4. Then you can set your crossovers without an active crossover and save you money in the long run. Not to mention you would be able to get adequate wattage to the mids =)

SO SORRY IN ADVANCE FOR THE THREADJACK... I have absolutely no idea. Seriously, I don't. Back between 12/22/2007 and 6/15/2008, SSA was vying to become HAT's sole on-line retailer. We communicated back and forth several times about terms of this agreement, including a stocking opening order, pricing, and etc. The SSA admin stated "we want to be the #1 Hybrid Internet dealer as we are with a number of other non-mainstream brands...in addition, as we try to expand our competition team, Hybrid would be the mid and tweet of choice..." On 6/15/2008, I replied with the revised 2008 internet dealer terms and got no further response. In regards to becoming a dealer, there has been no communication since then (as far as I can tell with my Outlook files). Late in 2008, there was some sort of a falling out with a few of the Team SSA guys (competitors). These guys came over to Team Hybrids. I sent a PM expressing my concern to the admins of this site, and the hope for a continued relationship. I wrote: “Sorry to hear about the team SSA guys disbanding...it wasn't my intent to "steal" competitors away.” The admin responded that they were all cool with HAT, but were just upset with these three guys only (as noted in a bit of sarcasm). I'm not much for soap operas, and assumed that things were fine between HAT and SSA. Concurrently in this same time frame, we had an official Hybrid Audio Technologies forum here to answer questions about the product. The bulletin board went live on 01/25/2008. One day in March 2009 the forum was gone. On 03/22/2009, I sent an e-mail to the administration why the board was gone (expecting to hear that there was a hack, or a BB malfunction). The same day, the SSA admin replied “I will get back to you shortly on this, I have just been slammed this weekend just don't want you to think I am ignoring you.” Weeks passed. I queried again, and again. No reply, and no new future correspondence. It became clear that the forum had been deleted. To this day, I still have no idea why. Fast forward a few months to mid-2009. Apparently one of these competitors that left SSA did something completely dumbass (not at my guidance and without my knowledge) and signed back up here and began answering HAT questions. Not cool. It was clear we weren't welcomed here anymore, and in fact, the three competitors that left SSA and joined Team Hybrids were all BANNED from this site. Pretty clear statement if you ask me. It was childish to come back here and sign back up. But it was also childish to BAN them in the first place for doing nothing more than changing competition teams (well, that's my opinion anyway). Now, within the past week, I have gotten three complaints from customers from this site, indicating that there's a fair bit of bad-mouthing going on from SSA administration and one key member. If we couldn't come to an agreement on the terms of SSA becoming an internet retailer, and the amicable move of three competitors away from SSA to Team Hybrids, then I am sorry. I will grant you that the move by one former Team SSA member to sign back up and answer questions was undoubtedly STUPID (I just found out about this last week, when I was discussing the recent trend on this forum – he apologized to me for apparently being the catalyst for the recent childish behavior on this forum). Nonetheless, the onus of the problem falls squarely within the confines of this forum. As someone suggested, I don’t send people to this forum to defend HAT products. I don’t need to, and don’t desire to. Don't give yourselves too much credit. This fella dkh came on his own free-will and was one of the three that alerted me to the turn-coat bashing of HAT products here. You must agree that this has been handled POORLY from the get-go. Not telling me why the forum was deleted was in very bad taste, and now the product bashing...I don't know what to think. Sixteen months ago, HAT was the brand of choice for SSA, and you guys were falling over yourselves to represent it, and now suddenly it isn't as good as $30.00/pair midranges? Seriously? Since the unexplained demise of the relationship with SSA, and the deletion of my forum, have you seen me bash the SSA product? No. Have I not recommended it? No. Do I say stupid things like “the SSA sub is not as good as the Parts Express subwoofer for $30?” You know its better, and I know its better. What's gong on here is in VERY POOR TASTE. I implore you to leave this post in tact, and not delete it or modify it, and not ban me, because it’s all the God’s-honest truth. If you have an axe to grind, BE A MAN and talk to me about it personally. I can be reached at 770.888.8200. I'll await your phone call. Scott Just as a clarification. I am the member that the three people complained about. Never once did I say your products were bad or even bad mouth them, just their value and that in the price range you ask for your drivers I would buy something else. Amusingly no one ever asked if I even liked them, they just got made when I stated that the OP of the threads in question should use their budget differently. I'd also like to clarify that I am not privy to the exchange that occurred between SSA and the members that moved to Team Hybrid and personally don't care to be. It wasn't between me and while I am still here that doesn't mean I automatically take sides. This is really funny that you come on and post as again it was some misinformed noobs pushing your product in an application where it doesn't really fit. That I have an issue with and always will. A quick read of the topics will make this readily obvious to you. It will also show you that the people that were promoting them have very little background and knowledge but are good at regurgitating pieces of conversations that they have read, but obviously not understood. Your reaction is perhaps logical considering the source, but I will tell you for sure that you, your company, nor your products had anything to do with the reaction. It would have been the same had they said they were going to use some Accuton mids, Seas Lotus midbasses and AirCirc tweets. If their whole budget is consumed by the drivers, they are unable to do real installation themselves, and leave no budget for integrating those drivers it would be stupid to buy them. Instead then, yes a $30 driver in a great installation would be a better choice. Hell one of the three members that joined you (and the one who did the install) will be glad to really outline that and I know you'd agree as well. Nice of you to come on and plop your phone number down, but it was unnecessary in this case. No beef with your drivers at all, just weren't right for the application. P.S. I quoted your post to doubly prove that no one will remove it, that sort of thing doesn't happen here. If it did, I'd leave. Overmoderation can stay at ICIX and DIYMA.

The xcon is a very muscial subwoofer and it handles a great amount of wattage, ive heard them myself I'd definitely go that route if youre looking for a loud, but well sounding, daily driver.

So i was reopening this thread to try to learn a little more about my "goals" and to see if you guys can help me out a little bit. as the thread previously discussed I am looking into getting a new sub setup after i finish my current project of Sound dampening, Front speakers, and head unit. realistically probably a month from now. I started this thread with the idea that i like "Sound Quality" While after learning more and more I have found that this (might) not be true. now Id like to see if you guys can help me out a little. My current setup is two Pioneer Premier 10's sealed in about .7 box "each chamber" Im not positive on the model number but they are the ones that are 350w rms. I am running 300w rms to them from a premier amp. after having this setup for about two years now I am ready to move on. I listen to all types of music from country, rock, alternative, rap, and r&b, even a lil techno at times, I have no desire in hitting 150 db or anything like that, I just want a sub that is great at playing music. Whatever i do decide to go with it must be in less than 2.0 cuft. because the box will be going under my back seat, and even 2.0 is pushing it, i would probably be losing some foot space at that. and since it will be going under my back seat the box design will be very "non square" the box will have to rise up in the middle with the two bigger chambers on each side "so im thinking it might be better to go with two subs, one on each side rather than getting one sub that needs 2cuft of space. "because from my previous understanding you want the box to be somewhat uniform in size." correct me if im wrong. not to mention mounting depth on a larger driver might become an issue. my buddy has a FI BL 15 in his saturn running off a alpine 1000 watt amp in a 4cuft box at 32htz "ruffly" And I think it sounds amazing when listening to rap. it hits lows great, and you can really feal it. but when listening to rock i feel like its missing something, it sound good, but not quite as "tight" as i like. I almost prefer my premiers although they have extremely less output, they seem to sound better. my question is... is there somewhere inbetween?? iv heard other people say that you cant have both SQ and SPL.. but is this true?? I dont Desire a SQ system that can break SPL records. I really dont want either. I just want to turn my stereo on, Turn to some rock and have a great listening environment, then turn my stereo on the next day, turn some rap on and feel some bass. this seems very Simplistic but yet impossible at the same time.... any thoughts?? The ideas I currently have are 2 FIQ 10's ported 2 FIQ 12's sealed 1 FI BL 12 ported 2 FI BL 10's Ported 2 Mach 5 IXL 10's ported "because they require very little space" but i haven't heard much about these? should this even be a option i should consider? Im lookin to be using somewhere between 1000-2000 watts.. im tryin to keep the electrical system as low cost as possible.. trying to keep it at my Optima yellow top, big three, and im assuming a after market alternator will be necessary either way.. and obviously running two subs would be a more expensive route and generally more power would be needed. but tens would be easier to fit and since my box will be awkwardly shaped would it be better to go with two subs? it would make each chamber more "uniform" It feels like this is a somewhat long and rambling post, but any help in a direction would be greatly appreciated. I am obviously not near as experienced as all of you, and from my understanding I have different goals.. I hear you guys talk about being crazy loud at tones that arn't found in music?? or things that you wont experience in a song? like that whole blurping thing or whatever haha id like to walk by a car 30 yards away and experience something that would completely damage my hearing for the rest of my life but i dont want it in my car, haha Im just some 20 year old kid that want my buddy's to jump in my truck and say hey, that sounds pretty good. any ideas on what i should do? or what my desires are?

Fi BL ftw! Reputation alone makes Fi a better choice, plus the design, engineering and hand built to order options make it hands down the better choice.

no, port area is port area. You can use 25sqin of port per cube instead of 16 for daily if u want too.. it's just not necessary. Since the meter can read changes in pressure down to 0.01db, it's necessary. For those who compete a lot, we can distinguish changes with our own ears by about 2db, that's a huge difference. Since larger ports may increase spl, it may not do it enough for our ears to notice a difference so it's not used for daily use.

Bad news...I got pulled over and recieved a 100 dollar citation without any warning there goes that AK 47 I wanted....

Yeah that is what my car audio adviser told me. I think I am going to lower the gains asap because I don't want to do anything stupid to my baby lol. I only have stock alt and batt right now, and I have had this setup for about 3 months now and I can start to see the effect it is having on my electrical system. My voltage meter doesnt go back up as fast as it use to after a low note, and my car starts to almost shut off at stop lights. But what you are saying is that, once I complete my upgrade on my electrical system, I will be able to apply 4600w daily to it? it just depends. the bigger the box is the lower the power handling is. put 4600 to it and see if it takes it. if not back off the gains. "if not"- is that after it blows? haha lol See thats what worries me. I don't want to put 4600watts to it, and than it blows. I really wish Fi or anybody could tell me what is the BTL max? Honestly you just need to get the words "peak" and "max" out of your brain. You have been listening to too much marketing drivel. Plus if you think about it, amplifiers would have peak ratings also. If you look at many of them, they'll say 1000 watts RMS, 2000 peak. So there you go, match up your RMS and your peak ratings of the amp and subs if that's what will get you through the day. But just so you know, peak ratings on amplifiers mean as little as peak ratings on subs. The best thing to do once you get your sub is to just not worry about absolute power handling numbers and figure out a gain setting that the sub will be happy at. If you turn it up and hear the sub stressing or bottoming out, lower the gain. If you smell burning, lower the gain. If you hear the sub not getting any louder or beginning to sound flat as you turn up the volume, lower it. Your ears are your best tools, sharpen them.

X eleventy billion on the SAE1200 v2. Seems like an awesome amp compared to your other 2 choices since AQ basically = Hifonics.

Welcome .... I would advise reading the two links below. It will help you get your answers and will let us help you as well. Also the search function here is a great resource learn to use it.

FYI, real world experience and testing is only useful if the right experience and testing has been done, and you actually understand how and why the results were what they were. You, however, do not and make up your own reasons. This is the driving force behind so many of your errors...you think "experience" is the end-all of objective evaluation. That was the same argument you used in our earlier discussion about speakers, and you're using it now. The problem is you do not understand that your experience and testing is relatively meaningless if not conducted properly, and that the results are meaningless if you don't understand the physics involved and why the results turned out as they did and then incorrectly ascribe them to some arbitrary reason that you determined to be the cause. You simply don't grasp this concept. Second, not much more to say other than anyone who has ever actually researched this, from the interested hobbyist, to those in the industry, to those who conduct studies and engineer the product disagrees with you. What does that tell you? The funny part here is that those oddly shaped curved/bent surfaces are already the lowest resonance pieces of sheetmetal in the car and should be your least concern. You are also here admitting that you would rather use an inferior but easier to use method and product. That doesn't help your position any. You are still trying to separate density and mass. Density is a description of a materials mass per volume, nothing more. Give up. See above. Patently false and demonstrates just how little of this you understand. Demonstrates what I referred to above....incorrect testing and/or failure to understand and comprehend results. Your "testing" is meaningless. Yes, meaningless. And do you know what type of foam they are typically using? Open cell foam, not closed cell foam. Open cell foam works by creating a labyrinth through which the soundwaves must travel and become "trapped", for lack of a better quick explanation. This is why closed cell foam is not a good absorber. Closed cell foam will absorb some, but it's not very effective and the thin foam used (1/8 - 1/4") will only be even mildly effective at the upper most range of the audible frequency spectrum. Closed cell foam works decently as a diffuser, but not an absorber. Please, research it. "BTW I'm glad ya'll can read the "research" done by phatmatt, damplifier, and all the other companies. in the end they all use almost the same exact technology, but use different adhesives and thicknesses." Sure, they call use a "technology" called constrained layer damping. They all use different compositions for the viscoelastic layer, they each use different thickness materials for both the viscoelastic layer and the constraining layer, and each of these factors will alter the various aspect of the products performance such as vibration damping, adhesiveness, performance in temperature variations, etc. Believe it or not, CLD has applications beyond car audio and has been studied, researched and developed in outlets other than car audio marketing. "None of my above statements are false," Nearly all of them are. You're just too ignorant to realize it. "and neither of you have come up with any hard evidence to prove otherwise." All of the research is out there, you are free to look it up for yourself. But you won't, because you like to sit around thinking you know it all based on your flawed "experience" and "testing" and that all of the actual research that has been conducted on the topic is wrong because your flawed experiments are the truth to you. Don recently gave you a reference to research and read....but you won't. "you have either quoted me and simply said I was wrong, or said I was wrong and then your argument almost goes hand in hand with exactly what I had said. my ears are always open to learn new things, but so far on this entire thread, I have yet to hear anything of any value and truth that would counteract my learnings. " It's difficult to counteract your "learnings" when your "learnings" were made up by yourself and you refuse to believe your experience could be wrong or that you don't understand or comprehend what was actually occurring. When someone who has spent probably close to 5 years actually researching deadening, opened a website dedicated to testing sound deadening products, and eventually went on to develop his own line of deadening products based upon all of this research (Rudy) tells you that you're wrong.....chances are good, you're wrong.

Well, then I guess your comment was even more meaningless than I originally thought if you were talking simply about the physical size of the magnet. I guess I interpretted your comment to mean motor strength rather than physical dimensions. That's only because you haven't said much that was right Is there some magic speaker genie who I can summon to allow this? Because otherwise, chances are good I will not hear a pair anytime in the short term or reasonable long term future. Why? Because 1) I have no need for a 4" driver, so I am not going to waste (yes, waste) $300 on a pair of drivers I literally have no use for simply so I can say I've heard them and 2) I live in a geographical car audio void absent of any meaningful audio "community". If, however, you wanted to send me your L4's for a demo I would gladly give them a listen. There's much more useful information contained in a quality objective overview of a driver than there is in a subjective evaluation (especially one conducted in something as uncontrolled as one particular vehicle installation)......if you understand the numbers and what they are telling you. There is a reason every driver on the market goes through a variety and multitude of modeling and measurements before a single person listens to them. Subjective "listening" isn't that useful for driver evaluation unless you are seeking one individuals opinion of them in the particular scenario in which they were demoed. In what way are the T/S parameters amazing? I don't know if I've ever seen the word "amazing" used to describe T/S parameters before....

I'm not using the gain (bass?) knob. Just the flat-head screw driver-adjusted controls on the amp itself. All connections outside of the amp are secure. I doubt I'm inclined enough to take the amp apart and analyze the internals. Is this something that can be taken care of under warranty? The box it came in says tested 6-30-09, so obviously it was bought less than a year ago, I might be able to find the receipt somewhere in my room.

spam

alright, so i've seen this sub on youtube, did alot of research on it, and seemed like it was the best sub for me, like my username says, i'm an sq freak, i'll take sq over bass any day,but i love both so i'm getting 2 monoblocks, first let me say this sub looks amazing! & this sub is massive! its as big as the hubcaps on my car! anyways not to get off topic or anything, so i have the new JVC Bongiovi Accoustics Headunit, the thing is amazing, and has the best sound quality i've ever experienced! i am possibly getting a JL Audio 1000w monoblock amp, and a Hifonics Brutus 1600 monoblock amp, should i use just the JL to power it?, or use both amps and get a capacitor? i was also curious about the best amount of hertz for it to be tuned to for the best sq, i'm kinda new to this, so forgive me if my sub slang isnt so great-lol, should i get a ported or seal box? its a dual 1 ohm with bp power option, and did i mention i have a 1999 Izuzu Oasis van, so room isn't a problem. Thanks for looking, i hope to get some help on this, i will gladly appreciate it, thanks.