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when i had all 6 of my amps in, i kept the gains maxed out and just used a PAC Audio gain controller to control all of them. Now.. u can set the LPF by ear but the subsonic is gonna be tricky... Try this- Can u put the box in ur back seat area? If u can, set the subsonic then. Subs will unload quicker when they are out in the open, even in a box, vs being sealed up in a trunk so u cant just lay them out in the driveway and do it... You'd be setting the subsonic too high.

There's nothing really wrong with them, but they're just a capacitor. It will give you a -6db slope at the frequency. Don't buy those "name brand" bass blockers. Way overpriced. Just go to partsexpress and buy a large capacitor the size you want for the frequency you want at the impedance of your speakers. If it were me, I'd get an amp for them and use the highpass feature on the amp. However, I understand price constraints. I'd say something like 100 hz for the 6.5s and 6x9s is fine, and 150 hz for the 4s is fine.

The class won't make a difference, what do your grounds look like?

DCONs would be a great choice, they are budget minded and will hit with the big boys, while sounding great doing it!

after bumbling through my build... i can truly appreciate your craftsmanship nice approach for sure.... are you entering under a club or on your own? (slamology) definetly would like us to be parked next to each other at the show.... repping SSA for sure! chop

Agreed on DCON's over CVR's, the DCON's sound better in my opinion.

Here's a short little video for ya... The mic on the camera sucks but these puppies are hurling!!! I need to vacuum the truck bad you can see dust flying out from the pressure...LOL I'll have another one up that's a little longer tomorrow morning.

Just need to do a bit of sanding and put the top on Andrew

Get a crossover, or run active.

I agree with CrazyKenKid on the $ towards an amp. I like spending $ towards a solution not $ around a problem. Good Luck!!

Thanks for letting us play with your enclosure Andrew

Cool, thanks for further explaining to me in a decent manner. I know what you mean by manipulating vids, I remember seeing a whole lot of head to head tests comparing the orion hcca versus other super woofers. The only thing I learned from it was that the hcca has a beefier coil than most other woofers, that is if the ads were actually truthful, which I kind of doubt since it was a biased assessment. The ads made it out like the hcca couldn't be stopped, wouldn't be stopped. Here's one if them... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyA-SpwwqKU

From what I can tell the former stayed attached to the spider, and the cone stayed attached to the former as well. Another thing to consider is that the 13W7 has dual 1.5ohm coils. If they had wired the coils in parallel, that's a nominal .75ohm. Using basic ohms law, P = V^2/R, that would be 120^2/.75 or 19,200 watts of power to the 13w7. If someone takes a D2 sub and wires the coils in series, that's only 3600w to the driver. If someone takes a D4 driver with coils wired in series, that's only 1800w to the driver. Just because it's a wall socket doesn't mean two different drivers are seeing the same power....which leads me back the internet allowing ignorance to spread throughout the masses by uninformed users not considering all of the necessary information before drawing conclusions. MTX used to have a marketing campaign when they released the 9500 series based on this exact principle.....they showed a Solo X, W7 and 9500 being driven to failure while displaying the voltage each driver was receiving.....ofcourse the Solo X and W7 failed at lower voltages than the 9500.....but they never told you what they had each driver wired to impedance wise, which made it impossible to know which driver was actually receiving the most power. Regardless, I think I've already stated on numerous times that the W7 wasn't intended to handle insane levels of power. If that is your desired application then yes, chose another subwoofer. Yes, there are subwoofers that handle more power than the W7. It doesn't make them better; just the same it doesn't make subwoofers that can't handle as much power as the W7 worse. The W7 is capable of more than the necessary amount of power it needs in order to perform at it's maximum in it's intended application. That's all any driver needs. Eh, isn't that exactly what I said? It appears I used the word "application" atleast 3 times, and the bolded sentence explicit says the only time T/S parameters can have a "superior/inferior" inference is in regards to a specific application. For any given application, yes there are. That's exactly what the T/S parameters tell you.....how the driver will perform in a given application.

Fair enough. The 12W7 has an Xmax of 29mm. But Xmax by itself is irrelevant, since we are concerned with the total amount of air capable of being displaced linearly.....otherwise known as Vd. Due to the design of the 12W7's cone and surround it has 542cm^2 of cone area compared to 480cm^2 on the Xcon. So the 12W7 has a total Vd of 1.57L, whereas the Xcon as a Vd of 1.49L. Displacement advantage: 12W7 A driver only needs to have enough power handling to achieve it's intended level of performance in it's intended application. Just because a driver wasn't intended for the application you desire is not a problem with the driver.....it's simply the wrong driver for the application. The Xcon wasn't designed to excel in sealed enclosures. Do I hold this against the Xcon, or simply decide instead to chose the proper driver for the application? The point being there are different applications, and no driver is going to excel at all of them. You are choosing to place significance on power handling for your own personal reasons.....not everybody does, nor should they. So while higher power handling may be a "plus" for your desired applications, it is irrelevant to most others. Last, simply looking at rated power isn't really a valid means by which to even compare power handling capabilities. While the 12W7 may not be "rated" to handle the same amount of power and it may void the warranty, it's design may allow it to do so. So really, the entire topic is moot without more information about the actual ability of both drivers to actually sustain certain levels of power.......other than the fact that running a 12W7 @ 1750w will void your warranty. Herein lies the problem.....you CAN NOT have two drivers with identical parameters other than sensitivity. It's not physically possible. So your hypothetical scenario is completely irrelevant as you can not "choose" an identical driver with higher sensitivity. If you really want to know why sensitivity is NOT a "higher is better" type of specification, here is an article in the tech center that will help you understand the trade-offs associated with increasing sensitivity; Subwoofer Sensitivity - SSA Car Audio Forum Exactly. That's not evidence of anything other than your own personal opinion, which is irrelevant to the discussion of the performance of a driver. Even then, we could question the validity of the experiences which you used to form your opinion. The performance of a driver is impacted more by the system, enclosure and environment than the actual driver itself. If your experiences with the W7 were heavily influenced by those factors (i.e. listening to a W7 in someone's vehicle, in a showroom, etc) then you honestly do not have enough experience with the W7 in order to form a valid conclusion and comparison of it's performance to any other driver. So, have you ever compared the W7 to a Xcon in identical environments and identical alignments and identical systems in order to form a valid comparison of the two drivers subjective performance relative to each other? If the answer is no, then "your opinion" is quite simply irrelevant and your experiences are inconclusive. That says nothing negative about you personally, it's simply a matter of fact. All opinions are not equal, and all opinions are not valid. Despite popular belief, an opinion can indeed be wrong.....or atleast, be based on faulty information. T/S parameters are not a "superior/inferior" type of parameter. They simply describe the low frequency performance of a driver, which assists the user in determining which driver best suits their application or what application would be most appropriate for a certain driver. The only relevance T/S parameters have in a "superior/inferior" inference is with respect to a given application. Look at the video closer. They don't have the ring on the surround, which means the surround is not attached to the basket. It appears when they applied power the coil rocked as a result, which hit the gap and began to bounce around thereafter. That video doesn't show anything other than a broken driver doesn't function properly. THIS is a prime example of the problem with the internet. People "see" something without fully analyzing the situation or circumstances and then use this misinformation to draw conclusions.

With the w7 comparison I was thinking it'd only be fair for a 12w7 to be compared to the 12 xcon. Anyway, The 12w7 has 28mm xmax and the xcon has 31. How is higher power handling not a better spec? In a daily driver music setup I understand power handling capability is not everything, but If I had the choice I would prefer for a sub that has the potential to handle more power. Who knows, I might want to use it for other applications one day. A sub with more power handling capability would have versatility then. So higher power handling potential would always be a plus, unless it potentially sacrificed other aspects of the woofers performance. Sensitivity, lets say there are two subs that have the exact same parameters. Except one of them has higher sensitivity than the other. Which would you buy? Can you explain to me why you wouldn't buy the more efficient driver? Anyway, the sensitivity on the 12's I was bringing up are all almost the same, so I was wrong for bringing that up. In the SQ department, I said the Xcon imo has better SQ. What I stated was a truthful OPINION. The key words were "in my opinion" I have nothing against JL, I wouldn't run W7s unless they were given to me. It makes more sense to spend almost the same money and run two w6's instead. Anyway, here's some parameters of the xcon, 12w7 and the 2005 XXX 12. You know more than I do about audio so maybe you can enlighten me to which sub is superior on paper and why..... 2005 XXX Fs 27hz Re 1.9 DVC Qms 4.52 Qes 0.44 Qts 0.4 Sd cm2 480 Vas 56.5 Xmax 1 way 32mm BL 17.1 SPL 1W/1m 85.9 RMS 1600 W Max 2500 W Xcon 2" SSA XCON D2 Re 3.7 Ohms (1.85 per coil wired in series) Fs 32.4 Hz Qms 5.24 Qes .39 Qts .37 Mms 222 Vas 35 l Sd 480 cm^2 BL 20.65 SPL 86.7 1 W/1m Xmax 31mm RMS 1750 12w7 Free Air Resonance (Fs): 27.2 Hz Electrical “Q” (Qes): 0.514 Mechanical “Q” (Qms): 7.807 Total Speaker “Q” (Qts): 0.482 Equivalent Compliance (Vas): 2.33 cu. ft. / 66.0 liters One-Way, Linear Excursion (Xmax)*: 1.15 in. / 29 mm Reference Efficiency (no): 0.249% Efficiency (1W/1m)**: 86.2 dB SPL Effective Piston Area (Sd): 84 sq. in. / 0.0542 sq. m. DC Resistance (Re): 2.47 ohm Nominal Impedance (Znom): 3 ohm Thermal Power Handling (Pt): 1000W Driver Displacement: 0.14 cu. ft. / 4.0 liters Net Weight: 45 lbs. / 20.4 kg I guess the W7 is an Ungodly driver, I was wrong they can take a light socket like a champ. You are completely right that it set the standard. The fact it is almost a 10 year old design and you can make a valid argument about it's superiority versus today's drivers is a testament in itself.

That they don't deserve? The W7 is worthy of every educated compliment thrown it's way. It set the standard for low distortion high output drivers. The W7 never claimed to be a SPL sub. That was never it's intended application. To use that against the W7 is a little like complaining that you can't take a Corvette rock climbing. It was intended to be a high output low distortion subwoofer for use in accurate music reproduction. Not a single tone fart cannon. Though IIRC Nate Munson said he put a W7 in car and only lost around 1db compared to the DD 9510 he had in there at the time. Arguable. What measurements do you have to support that the Avalanche and Tumult are far and away superior performers to the W7 in distortion and other "sound quality" parameters? Make it look retarded? No. Not happening. Sorry. How is it superior in every way? I hope your list gets better than this; Irrelevant....and actually higher sensitivity can be detrimental for a subwoofer. Sensitivity isn't a "higher is better" spec....and if you think it is, you have some learning to do. Irrelevant again. Having a higher rated power handling again isn't a "higher is better" spec.......and if you think it is, you have some more learning to do. The W7 has sufficient power handling for it's intended application, that is all that matters. If you want to go rock climbing, don't buy a Corvette. A little more relevant. But IIRC the Xcon is rated at 31mm Xmax, correct? 13W7 is rated @ 32mm Xmax and was Dumax'd at 33-34mm.. They are close enough that I wouldn't say excursion is in either driver's favor. Subjective, which makes it only relevant to you and no one else. Another person may think the W7 sounds better than your Xcon. Indeed it is. You finally got one right! Congrats!

Kerfs in, flush mount in. Just needs top, paint and carpet. Andrew

and its only going to get worst.. thanks to the whole immigration reform LOL a lot of businesses cant afford buying product in american to sell in america so they outsource there products to other countries due to having to pay high wages and benefits to full citizen americans..

This type of thing should never be covered by the manufacturer. You should have removed the plastic cover from the back of the motor, this may have really been a big part of your problem....... I would just plan on sending in the driver for a recone, and paying for it.