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ibanender, this is for you, courtesy of penguin4x4:

Are you going to show him up? lol I plan to make the man tap out. If not watch his face cringe. =P Never herd of BTLs and his idea of an spl sub is a W7 hes in for a rude awakening.

It will go up a little bit..because it has to. But it is still on par with the course considering people are paying around 200 bucks for a Chinese produced 12 that is far less of a sub.

Patience guys. Scott is doing some great things building these subs with the materials and vendors he is using. It is nice to see people seeking out ways to keep thing on US soil.

We got 3 weeks behind guys because of our magnet vendor..and trying to play catch up.. Relax..you are in good hands.

awesome man!! if you were a Mormon I'd be one of your wives Lance!!!

I am sure I will have 5' +/- of 0ga from weldingsupply.com after I finish up. I would donate for your project, just let me know where to send it.

The 13W7 is my third most favorite driver. If I had room for one, I'd buy another. It does everything extremely well.

Glad we agree Measuring a W7 in my car is irrelevant. I don't need to measure it in my car unless I want to know how it responds in my particular vehicle in that particular enclosure on my power with my system settings. None of this defines the objective qualities of the W7 itself. "On paper in a lab" is the only meaningful way to objectively measure and evaluate a driver. I know you understand this (or atleast I think you do, I suppose I could be wrong). Despite our disagreements, I don't take you for a dummy. I'm less than impressed by your debating skills, but I know you're not stupid. This however is another one of your sidetracking techniques because you can't directly rebut my comments. You aren't going to be able to find anything indicating the W7 is an objectively poor driver, because it's not. It's a well designed driver. It's performance attributes, pricing or perceived value might not fit your, or someone else's, personal performance preference or goals. But that doesn't make the W7 a bad driver, just not the driver for every situation. With that, I'm done with this conversation. I've clearly explained my points, and the conversation will quickly either head no where or become circular. Both of which are a waste of time.

It's cool that you want to support local business. But when those businesses are taking money from you, lying to you, and doing poor quality jobs. I will not pay more money for them. Why would i pay MORE for LESS, that doesn't make sense. I am here in the Tempe, Arizona scene and here we have pretty sleezy guys. I have been to two of the "top" names in car stereo. Audio express and Sounds good to me. My first experience at Audio express was when i was 16 and had my Honda Accord freshly bought and i was hungry for a system. Not knowing what to get i walked into Audio Express with my dad and 500 dollars on my card from working at Harkins Theaters that summer. I was pretty excited when i walked in to hear bass and saw that the listening room was right there. I listened to the different woofers but before i had left with my dad to get to audio express i had been looking online and had been thinking about either getting Alpine type R's or Rockford P3's, 12 inch ones. The prices straight from Rockford were expensive so i thought by going to a local audio store i could get them for less. After a while we were approched by a guy who worked at Audio Express and we talked for a few moments. Me and my dad started talking to him about what i wanted and what i had in mind. I told him that i wanted to be loud with my bass and maybe rattle some windows. He explained to me that with my budget there was no way that i would be able to get 2 P3's and a high end enough of an amp to get it. Dissapointed and a bit shocked i looked over on one of the shelves and saw a 1000 watt kenwood amp on sale. I asked him if i got that, wouldn't it push 2 Rockford P3's. He told me that the amp would only be able to push 1 P3 and that i could try to push 2 P3's but in the end i would just blow them out. He then explained to me that there was managers special going on and that for only $500 (humm.) that i could get 2 12 inch kenwood's and a 1000 kenwood amp. I told him i would talk to my dad about it. In talking to my dad he explained that maybe i should wait and see if i could get a better deal somewhere else. I tried to ask the guy from Audio Express if i could come back later that week or have sometime to think about it. He told me that the sale was ending in 2 more days. So i ended up buying it. About a year later (2 months ago) my friend had my first amp that i bought from him. I bought warranty on my amp and subs. The amp had not been able to turn on for some reason, and after looking at it I knew that it was something wrong with the actual, not fuses. I tried to get it replaced and he told me that because they don't sell that model anymore, they wouldn't give me a new replacement amp, but that i could get my warranty money back but only half ($10). They also installed my remote start and viper alarm system, i have taken it in 5 times and each time it just breaks again. There is way more to all of this but seeing my story, as long as it is, i think i won't type up anymore because i know you guys don't like to read... lol. Long story short, Local business just try to rip people off and pretend that they are the only solution. Screw that, lets go online. EDIT: P.S. I looked online awhile back and saw i could buy (and ended up buying them for a friend) those subs for 50 each and the amp for 100 dollars. Hum, so i spent 350 more then i needed to. Awesome.

Honestly, if you don't know what your talking about please don't post stuff that isn't true. Seeing as i just was talking to some people about this cable and wanted to see how it is used and see what other opinions are about it. When you post false information, people tend to believe or double think about what you posted. I will now look more about it online but for people who aren't smart enough to double check sources, you just threw them on the wrong path. From what i have heard and read, Welding wire is just as good as any car audio wires. When you weld you are using a continuous electrical current through the wire. And to say that when you weld you don't continuously use power is ridiculous. The only thing that i can think of that maybe you got that idea off of is that on some welders it talks about if you use the welder for 5 minutes you need to let it cool for 55 minutes. I have seen that before but i think that pertains more to the welder and the way it needs to cool. Not the wire

So right now you are "selling" vaporware? So you didn't get an idea for a product, you got an idea for a price point then had someone else design a product (that you didn't understand) to fit that price point. At present, said product doesn't actually exist. Your marketing plan so far consists of promoting a product that doesn't actually exist and that you don't actually understand, making apparently outrageous claims about it's performance then deleting those comments, and finding reasons to trash competing products such as the picture of RaaMat you posted earlier? That's pretty tactless and demonstrates terrible business ethic. It also helps if you type in English. Your grammar and spelling is atrocious for an individual promoting a product and business. Sounds like a solid plan you have going there.

The root of all of this is the thread on another forum that I mentioned earlier. I would post a link to it, but cthedinger deleted all of his posts from it. It's fine for him to act like he has been victimized by me here, but I only became aware of the other thread because members there were outraged by the false allegation cthedinger made against me and my products and asked me to join and respond. It doesn't seem reasonable to attack and expect there to be no consequences. Unfortunately, since cthedinger chose to obliterate his contribution to that thread, the evidence is gone. It's also disingenuous to cry foul after stating that he wouldn't trust RAAMmat BXT II in his car when what he showed as his reason is pretty obviously a physically damaged sample. He never mentioned this damage in his review video leaving us to imagine where and how the damage occurred. At the same time, we're being asked to trust the superior quality of a product that's different than the prototype, doesn't seem to exist and apparently hasn't been seen by anybody, including cthedinger. Very strange development cycle, IMO. I'd suggest sending out samples of a shipping product. I know I'd be interested in seeing it. Oddly enough, I'd give an honest opinion. There are posts all over the place where I've commented favorably on competing products. Dynamat, Cascade and Second Skin all sell very good products. Cthedinger may too, but it's obviously premature for anybody to be claiming anything, one way or the other about his products. At this point all we have to evaluate are his antics

Ditching The Earthquakes Altogether And Running Two Dcons Or One Icon On A Mono Amplifier And Upgrading Your Front Stage... Just My $0.002

Audiowrap makes his deadner? Same build house. I know you know that. Not sure why you'd want to reveal that. "Build house" is an interesting choice of terms. Audiowrap is a side project for Protectowrap. Protectowrap is a roofing materials manufacturer. Audiowrap may be a good product - don't know, haven't seen it, but I have seen several other of their roofing products that other people have cynically sold as vibration dampers when they were noting of the sort. I also know that it was only a few months ago that your partner announced his product, was asked on another forum to explain how vibration dampers work and e-mailed me (under false pretenses) to ask how they work, unaware that I was watching that thread. I explained to him why his announced configuration would perform poorly. Since he re-announced the new configuration within days, I have to assume this was the extent of his testing. All of this and some of his past appearances have led me to certain conclusions, most of which I'll keep to myself, but cover everything with vibration damper as a solution for every application is a ship that sailed several years ago. "works extremely hard to portray a professional and honest image" is putting the cart before the horse. In any case, my post stands and you confirmed my assertion. I was a little bitchier than I like to be but your partner's previous behaviors have rubbed me the wrong way. Good luck with the endeavor. Dynamat is manufactured in sheets, as is Cascade VMax, Second Skin's products and several others.

When they're ready to come out. Sorry, but if I recall correctly, Fi never gives out a date. One day you go to sleep with the SSD's still in the works and one day you'll wake up to find that they're in production.

Reading comprehension. I said high displacement low distortion drivers on the mainstream market. Either way, you are sidetracking the conversation, as usual. Your first sentence proves my point. Consumers dictate appropriate pricing for the market. JL can offer the driver for sale at whatever price they want. If the W7 were overpriced, it wouldn't sell. That simple. You didn't actually argue against this point, you simply tried to make up reasons of why it is so. You can argue why it sells all day long, but that's irrelevant. It's another one of your "I can't support my argument so I'm going to take the conversation in the direction I want it to go" tactics. The fact is, it does sell. Consumers find value in the W7 at it's available pricing. That is what's relevant. If it were overpriced, it wouldn't have sold much less been on the market at it's current price point for almost a decade. I find it very hard to believe that the only people purchasing this driver for a decade are uninformed marketing driven mindless drones. Are there some? Sure. But is that the entire customer base? No. Are there valid reasons for paying extra "for a name"? Yes. Is the W7 going to be for everyone? No. Is it expensive? Yes. But that doesn't mean it's overpriced. If it were overpriced, if consumers didn't see the value in the product at it's pricing level, it wouldn't have sold much less been sustainable in the market for almost a decade. That simple. You can't argue this point. You can argue why it sells (as you tried to do), you can argue it's price vs performance compared to competitors......but those are side arguments. The simple point is, consumers wouldn't buy it if they felt it were overpriced. JL priced it appropriately for the market. If you are not a buyer at it's pricing level, that's fine. You can have valid personal reasons for not purchasing a W7. Not everyone is going to see the value in the W7 at that pricing. And that is fine. But that does not make it overpriced. Second; I never said the W7 was the best or only driver in the market. I simply said it's not hype. They have been verified for a decade now to be well performing drivers. That simple. You can't argue this point. They are objectively good drivers. I did say "one of the first", which they were. There were not many drivers in the mainstream market that offered both that level of displacement and low distortion/linear BL. But this is again a side argument to the main point, so I don't want to linger on it (though I'm sure this is what you will focus on, rather than the main point, in an effort to make yourself feel "right"). The main point is that the W7 is an objectively well performing driver. So, you can either respond with something relevant to the conversation (which doesn't seem to fit your M.O.), or don't bother responding at all. I read the first line and didn't bother reading the rest because I had a thought. You know everything, everybody else is wrong, you're right, why waste time trying to educate or at the very least make you think? In regards do the first sentence, how are you measuring distortion? 10% distortion from a sub is not only common, but accepted as "clean" by the human ear. Again, how are YOU measuring distortion? Not on paper, not a lab test, YOU in a car, measuring it.

That is all.