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Which was pretty much the point I was getting at with the last 2 sentences. I don't know that I'd call them "rated" at 12V since that's not really how they are represented in the company literature...but I certainly can't disagree with making the statement that they will provide atleast rated power at anything 12V and up (assuming that it's an accurate statement). It's really just an issue of semantics, assuming the later is accurate. How is that? That's real world numbers. It does xxxx watts on xx.x volts at x impedance, you can't really misinterpret that. Yes, you can.....and it's pretty obvious that almost everybody does. The lone virtue of being "real world numbers" does not make them particularly useful or meaningful. Let's look briefly at why. For the sake of discussion, for the moment we'll ignore the fact that it was measured on a reactive load and the associated issues, we'll ignore that we don't know the accuracy of the equipment, etc etc etc....we'll ignore all of the other issues right now and focus on just one for the moment (It makes the conversation a little easier to focus on one rather than everything). Distortion. He didn't measure it. Sure, the measurement equipment read X watts, but at what level of distortion? That makes the measurement completely useless to anyone wanting to use the amplifier for actual listening duties (and the other factors we aren't discussing right now make it useless for about anybody else). How useful is that power if it's at 10% or higher distortion? What if the amp was clipping? What if, what if, what if. You can get a lot more power out of any amplifier if you completely ignore distortion. So what does that really "prove" ? Not much, for all intents and purposes. But what do people do? "Sundown's test proves their amps are underrated !! .....proves their amps output rated power on 12V !! .... shows "real world" power !! " No, it doesn't. Rated power is measured into a specific load with a specific power supply voltage at a specific level of distortion (and really, continuous power would also need to be rated for a specific length of time. I believe CEA-2006 specifies 1 minute). If we ignore distortion, we can not compare the measured numbers to the rated power. The two are simply different measurements that can not be compared. And if we ignore distortion during the measurement, how do we know the distortion level of the signal is at an acceptable level? We don't. It's useless for determining "real world" usable power output. If those are your idea of a "real world" power measurement, then you and I must live in completely different worlds because a necessary condition for any valid, useful and meaningful power measurement in my world is an accompanying distortion measurement (among other things). And when you add in the other issues involved in that measurement "test", it makes the test essentially useless in general for determining the actual, useable power output of the amplifier. Just because it was measured in the "real world" does not mean it's an accurate or useful measurement. In fact it makes it less likely to be either of those things. Normally these "real world" measurements are neither of those things. "Real world" is generally just a synonym for "not properly conducted, therefore inaccurate and invalid". Variables aren't controlled or isolated, accuracy verifications aren't in place, procedures and conditions can't reliably be repeated....and in this case not all of the relevant information was even measured. The very last statement alone makes it useless in the "real world". The rest is just icing on the cake. I'm not saying the Sundown's aren't underrated. In fact I wouldn't surprise if they were intentionally rated lower than their actual power output. It's a great marketing tool, used since the days of "cheater amps". However, what would need to be performed to verify this is a properly conducted bench test, not a "real world clamp test" as is so often performed. That test doesn't actually prove anything other than most forum members are willing to accept information (especially from manufacturer's) at face value and not think critically about what information is actually being provided, or how to properly interpret the results.

If your ordering some, get these http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=091-1245 You'll love them

http://www.speedymetals.com/default.aspx I think you can get anything from here and it ain't too expensive...

Turning it off would be completely counter clockwise. I'd just set it around 20hz. So sealed box for 2 sa15s would be 5cubes, and you got 7.5cubes. You shouldnt have any problems just use some common sense when setting the gain.

amplifier output?? I mean if it isn't really gonna be heard or used why put power to it? conserve that energy for useful output?? I could be talking out of my ass though... lol... That's how I am thinking of it...

Reactive loads is what makes it REAL power. Resistive loads don't prove anything, you don't listen to resistors, and it's called impedance because it changes. You don't have x ohms all the time. If it's rated for 1 ohm, you may never go below 1.6 during play, that 1 ohm power isn't what you're getting. Please tell me you don't look at THD spec on an amp to compare them. There is no standard for THD measurement. Distortion could vary at a given frequency, voltage, anything. Beyond that, do you have any idea how distorted subs are to start with? I'd be willing to bet up to 10% distortion, the ear can't differentiate. Distortion will increase power on a meter, fully clipping however will show LESS power. CEA-2006 is a joke. An amp could be rated at 1000 watts @ 14.4v @ 1 ohm under that system, but in a car it will get something like 650 watts in a car. Why? Because you don't have 14.4v, you have 12.6v, and then you have impedance rise. You don't have any of the conditions the amp is rated at. Is there a distortion standard? What equipment is being used to measure that distortion? Is that equipment equally calibrated to each other? What frequency is it tested at and is it tested the same way for every amp? Is the same output level being used to check that? Are all those same standards used to get the power rating? Your same reasons for "real world" numbers not being accurate also apply to every manufacturer rating their amp, even in a "standard of measurement". Yes, real world DOES mean it's accurate and useful. In THAT vehicle with THOSE conditions it did THAT number. Will you have those exact conditions? Maybe, maybe not, but at least you get an idea of what it's capable of in a vehicle and not on a bench with a resistor. The only way a test isnt properly conducted is if you fail at basic math and can't multiply 2 numbers. Can those conditions be recreated? Sure, that same vehicle has the same conditions, if you test one against another, you have accurate results. You've used the same scenario with the same test equipment. Bottom line is anybody who is concerned with actual output probably has their aim at SPL, where distortion doesn't matter. Power is power, it does it or it doesn't, and an SPL meter doesn't discriminate. If 1 amp does more power than another amp, odds are, SPL went up. The testing you want will never be done, because every manufacturer would have to use the same test equipment, calibrated before every use, under standards that would only be adhered to by honest people.

Fs won't play that big a part in the sub bass game either Its amazing when people only look at two specs of a subwoofer and automatically assume one thing or another. I like the 1w/1m though. No BS rating FTW.