Leaderboard

Essentially, A nice analogy to this is a grain elevator. Imagine that a bunch of grain is moving along a conveyor belt and it comes to a grain elevator that moves it up 9 feet. This gives it more (gravitational) potential energy - it has further that it could fall. Then it comes to another 9 foot elevator and another. At the end it's all 27 feet up. The flow of grain up the elevators would be just the same as for one elevator, but it would go higher., just as batteries in series can't supply more current than ones in parallel, but they do supply more voltage. But if the grain went up 3 elevators placed in parallel then after the 3 elevators, all of the grain would only have gone up 9 feet. Of course, the 3 elevators in parallel could carry more grain, just as batteries in parallel can supply more current. But the height it was carried to would be just the same as for one elevator, just like the voltage of batteries in parallel.

New comers to the forum are required to post their GF's boobies.

Just wall off.... and tune low... Fck the numbers man.. That shit will be intense regardless.!!!

If I am so sad, why don't you air the truth about why the new owners even have to deal with your "oops" tiles. As for the thought to me, I could give a shit less. I just feel bad for the guys you ripped off selling your business away to. Flat out unconscionable. Only thing predictable here is you will lie, cheat and do whatever to make a buck, but obviously you already know that and now will run away. You don't have the balls to truly have this discussion, but instead want to just flop by and call names out and pretend you are above the messes you make. If you do, come on, prove me wrong. That is all I've ever asked for but you've never once even come close to obliging the request because you know you'll just get exposed. LOL you seriously make me laugh. Pathetic. My balls are in place and big enough to both have the convo, and admit when I am wrong. The later of which happens, but not in this situation. The truth you say? The truth is that I had 4k lbs of foil in my posession and together the owners and I came to an agreement where I would produce the product and they would sell it. The contract I have with the Second Skin people is just that. An contract. Writen up by lawyers, reviewed, modified and agreed to by both parties. Nothing is shady, nothing is unusual and both parties profit from the relationship. One more than the other. Again, all you have is hate and anger that you use to color me as a you see fit. No proof and no tact. Just throwing shit on the wall and hoping it sticks. None of it ever has. Instead, all that is left is your pile of crap left over for the forum to read and the admin to pick up. Childish behavior from a troll that somehow became a moderator. For the Sake of Second Skin, I am going to avoid replying to your posts. If you need clarification on our arrangement, perhaps you should ask them. I for one am done dealing with you. ANT

If Ray ever wants an unbiased review of the 8's on this forum, my car is always open

Incorrect. Time alignment should be used so that all the drivers are producing sound that is coming to your ear at the same time. Regardless of how many drivers he has producing whatever frequency, placement can be corrected with alignment and phase filters.

He who must not be named. You mean Sucks My Dick?

How would that help? If the speakers are located at the same locations in the vehicle (i.e. doors), and you measured to a point in the center of the vehicle.....the speakers would measure equidistant You would have to measure the differences at the listening position. Then again, I've never set time alignment with measurements.....I've always set it by ear. Because your head moves. You can't account for how you sit or if you're leaning to the left or the right. You also can't account for passengers being in the way of the waves. Better to just pick a common open spot in the space and aim for that. As close to your natural spot as possible of course. You can do timing by ear, or measuring, the only real way to get it right though is with mic and computer that can measure down to the .001 ms. If your head moves, why do you care about .001ms?? I'd never T/A a car to do it, but always for a purpose. Being I only build a system for me then I'd exclusively use it to make things sound better in MY seating position. Other people may have different prerogatives on what they want their vehicle to do, but it makes absolutely no sense to T/A to a center point in a vehicle. Hell, it sure looks like in his case by default that is pretty much already done anyways as his drivers ARE equidistant from the center. If he were to do what you suggest, then he should just pick a center point of the mids and tweets and only adjust the difference between them to the center for one set not both the mid and tweet, but there will be no sonic gain from doing that. Fixed and another reason why "to the center of the vehicle" makes no sense.

You do know in some circumstances off axis isn't the best choice. (depends on the driver, and the kind of sound the listener wants to have.)

I can't believe you can't believe this. REALLY simple to look at the t/s and figure out what is going to happen. One quick question for you that should clear this up. How do you think they do it at concerts? If you've NEVER heard a vehicle that can then you should find someone who actually knows how to do an install and listen to their system. Now you are getting somewhere, however that is going to mean changing ALL of your front stage...unless of course you give us more of an insight as to what "decent staging" is to you. My definition says there is not way in hell with your doors as they are you are even getting close. No electronics can solve that many issues. Height has NOTHING to do with the amount of midbass. Two completely different things there. The only advantage of raising your mids up are to raise your stage. I agree on the bold, but this is a car with a ton of compromises. Need is subjective, but it will help when applied correctly. And that is an asinine statement. On axis, off axis and aiming are all very install and driver dependent. Knowing nothing about either means you cannot comment. Of course you are running poor car audio drivers that are compromised to perform (or at least they should be if not, ouch) off axis. Don't draw your conclusions from what you have...

Height has NOTHING to do with the amount of midbass. Two completely different things there. The only advantage of raising your mids up are to raise your stage. I thought that this (bringing the stage up) was the reason why the thread was here ... I NEVER said having the 6.5s as high as possible in the doors has ANYTHING to do with the amount of midbass thats in that vehicle ... I said that it helps to enhance the stage by bringing the drivers closer to the tweeters for a better seemless stage ... BIG DIFFERENCE here ... But having 2 6.5s in each door should be ALOT of midbass, don't you think ?? and if needed extra, referr back to the post you quoted me on ... You shouldn't make assumptions as yours seem to regular be wrong. This thread was about time alignment. Read Drew's original post here: And you definitely stated dual 6.5's high will enhance your stage. Read your own post. And no, I don't particular think that 2 6.5's will be monster midbass in particular with how they are currently mounted and what he has chosen for drivers. Using that as a generic recommendation is terrible.

And that is an asinine statement. On axis, off axis and aiming are all very install and driver dependent. Knowing nothing about either means you cannot comment. Of course you are running poor car audio drivers that are compromised to perform (or at least they should be if not, ouch) off axis. Don't draw your conclusions from what you have... At what point in this entire thread, let alone this post, did I say ANYTHING about my vehicle ??? Drew is running RD drivers. This has NOTHING to do with anything that is in my vehicle ... At what point in this thread did I reccomend ANY product, let alone the drivers that I run, to Drew in this thread ??? I apologise to SSA and Drew (bassahaulic) for ranting on this, But M5///, you were way out of line here ... Randall, my response was rebutting your comment to recommending OFF AXIS which is generally a terrible idea without knowledge. You referenced your tastes which infer your vehicle. I also know that you have "car audio" drivers in your vehicle which SHOULD be designed differently than home audio causing you to lean that way. A rudimentary understanding of speakers would help you here. And where do you see that I said that you recommended any drivers? Only one out of line is the one giving TERRIBLE advice of recommending putting things always off axis. Perhaps before getting defensive you should actually read what you typed.

In keeping this on topic to the thread, simply I wouldn't bother with T/A until I changed out the drivers completely. Wow, imagine that ANOTHER subjective commentary. Stop with the effing nonsense. Are you so little of a man you have to walk around and point out what compliments people give you? It thoroughly amuses me and not in a pleasant way. Keep subscribing to your golden ear and snake oil theories, fine with me. Not sure what this has to do with T/A since you've stated before you aren't using it as well....

In keeping this on topic to the thread, simply I wouldn't bother with T/A until I changed out the drivers completely. So what you are saying here is that Drew has shitty components and needs to be replaced, And the most dedicated moderator in SSA refuses to give advice on a proper install with what the op has to work with ??? I never said that. Please read for once without emotion. The thread was about T/A, you asked what I would do in his shoes, I simply answered that I wouldn't bother with T/A. Why are you so fricking bitter?

In keeping this on topic to the thread, simply I wouldn't bother with T/A until I changed out the drivers completely. So what you are saying here is that Drew has shitty components and needs to be replaced, And the most dedicated moderator in SSA refuses to give advice on a proper install with what the op has to work with ??? I never said that. Please read for once without emotion. The thread was about T/A, you asked what I would do in his shoes, I simply answered that I wouldn't bother with T/A. Why are you so fricking bitter? I was only trying to help out the op and things were going great, and instead of discussing the differences like Impious did. you acused me of not knowing what I was doing. I just gave suggestions, thats all. If I was wrong on anything, lets discuss it so maybe we all can learn something in stead of pointing out the stuff we don't know ... When are you going to learn that misinforming someone of something is NOT helping. If you'd just drop it when someone clarifies what you say is wrong instead of getting defensive this wouldn't be a problem. And you know I am more than willing to help Drew, but again I don't have the full picture of what he is willing to do and his needs. I asked a while ago and have gotten no response... Now you are getting somewhere, however that is going to mean changing ALL of your front stage...unless of course you give us more of an insight as to what "decent staging" is to you. My definition says there is not way in hell with your doors as they are you are even getting close. No electronics can solve that many issues.

And that is an asinine statement. On axis, off axis and aiming are all very install and driver dependent. Knowing nothing about either means you cannot comment. Of course you are running poor car audio drivers that are compromised to perform (or at least they should be if not, ouch) off axis. Don't draw your conclusions from what you have... See the difference here ... If someone done this to you, how would you feel ?? Same subject ... and this was given only a suggestion ... btw, you have never heard MY (in my vehicle, not the brand) drivers, why would you make such a bold statement in this thread ??? I get sick of your nonsense. I don't care about YOUR vehicle nor YOUR ears. Subjective nonsense is stupid as is a carte blanche recommendation of installing things on axis. That is similar to saying all subs should be used sealed for SQ. Just flat out wrong. Stop re-acting emotionally and keep it on topic. Drew said it best, no need to get upset and go off a wall. If you want to rebut fine, but stop reacting emotionally.

Convenient so when you sell them to buy something that actually fits your needs you won't lose money

Steve Meade and Jonathon Price know nothing about staging, that's for sure. Your confusing "knowledgeable" with "YouTube Whore"

Not without a significant amount of processing......more processing than most processors are capable of. And even then, with the spacing of the mids just in that picture (I don't know what the rest of the setup looks like, if there is anything else) there are going to be some serious limitations and disadvantages to that setup if one were trying to do anything other than get loud with it. This is the truck cableguy was talking about staging well. ROFL. That is absurd and won't work for shit. Breaks about every basic rule in speaker building. Plus what sort of pansy builds an exposed panel for crappy crossovers, those don't have ANY components in them worth showing off. Complete crap.

If you read the thread, that is nearly exactly what we are recommending. You got a little lost in the details though. -no real midbass will play to 2500Hz, my favorite bang for the buck driver has a hard time hitting 300Hz which means you are compromising a bit in the driver. Nonetheless there are choices. -For systems with output as the goal, having the subs play higher is no big deal and beneficial as they are more efficient by default than anything else you can use based on cone area -ANY decent horn can play WAY below 2300Hz, some down under 1kHz even -Overlapping can be a terrible idea much more often than a good one. And no it will do the opposite from being "warmer or smoother" -RTA's really shouldn't be used EXCEPT for to find anomalies, definitely not for setting up your system. You should set it up for yourself and not for some computer -EQ in general should not be to satisfy your "wants" but to remove the anomalies. Your "wants" should be solved in your installation. -Flat sounds like ass, always -You should generically speaking never use an eq to "move up from there" but to pull things down. EQ's are for making cuts, not boost. -I would say several weeks, not hours or days. The recommendation of using a midbass or better yet a dynamically capable midrange and a horn is the ONLY solution for getting loud, maintaining a stage, and still sounding good. Multiple drivers playing high frequencies is always a bad idea and a hell of a compromise in the wrong direction. quoted You know I said the truck would stage... but I NEVER said WELL ... wtf bro ?? I would NEVER put that system in competition. So far I've read is adding horns under the dash ... nothing about driver positioning ... how is this going to help your stage ?? What do you mean by stage but not very well, that makes absolutely no sense...unless you have a seriously jacked definition of stage. The horns will help significantly for a multitude of reason. A L/R point source will ALWAYS be easier to make cohesive than multiple point sources, the horns even under the dash will be as high if not higher than the tweets in the current door, and they can actually be aimed. Basically nearly every aspect of staging will be improved over what he has currently. again, best of luck with your system bro ... Thanks, Randal .......... And again, your suggestion won't have the dynamic capability that the OP wants. One normal tweet on each side will NOT "keep up" with his subs at all. Rudimentary understanding of sensitivity and power ratings will tell you that. He will definitely still need processing AND your off axis recommendation is not good either. We already went over this though. It won't.

If I am so sad, why don't you air the truth about why the new owners even have to deal with your "oops" tiles. As for the thought to me, I could give a shit less. I just feel bad for the guys you ripped off selling your business away to. Flat out unconscionable. Only thing predictable here is you will lie, cheat and do whatever to make a buck, but obviously you already know that and now will run away. You don't have the balls to truly have this discussion, but instead want to just flop by and call names out and pretend you are above the messes you make. If you do, come on, prove me wrong. That is all I've ever asked for but you've never once even come close to obliging the request because you know you'll just get exposed.

I had a long reply typed out but an internal server error prevented that from happening, so, in short... We are just as in the dark as you are in this, talking to Denso is like trying to have a conversation with a porcupine, you can talk all you want, but you aint gonna get anything out of him.. We have 4 pallets inbound that were supposed to be here on the 13th, following past protocol if they aren't here now, then they will be here by Nov 13th which means at some point in the next 3 weeks they will be here. I don't like it any more than you do, but that's just how the big OEM's work. The million dollars we spend with them is like you trying to buy a single penny candy when all the other customers are buying Ferrari's, it's nothing to them when their big customers spend multi-billions of dollars. They will fill our order within a set time frame, when it suits them. Unfortunately, it's just how it works sometimes. Normally, they run like clockwork but this is the first big shipment of this part number from them to us and obviously it's taken them a bit longer to fill.. Just be glad your not waiting for product we have coming from Europe, we made that order Jan 10th, still dont have a confirmed shipping date, and have not had a single phone call or email returned since June.. Trust me, I feel your pain!