I will let you know about them shortly Is that so? My issue is dealing with serious space limitations in the civic for daily scooting, and the Sundowns/ZED's and my old Orions are just to big, and so the old RF's were going to come out of retirement. Hence the reason I was bugging you about a small old RF, but if I could find decent power in the footprint of a 125a2 or 100a2 until the new ZED's come out, that would be sweet. I ordered the 4 channel Tuesday, so I should get it next week. That means what ever it is taking the place of has to push something out of the hallowed closet.