Impious

Blasphemy!

The Eclipse 34230 (2-channel) wasn't bridgeable and wasn't 2ohm stereo stable That makes #2 for you Anyways, to answer the original question yes you can run 2ohm per channel on the front 2 channels and 4ohm per channel on the rear 2 channels. Since you assume that isn't the series that I was thinking of...what series was I thinking of? I'd be surprised if you know. Thinking back there were several others but they were never common. I really don't know off hand. The only reason I assumed that wasn't the amp you were talking about was because that was a single model not a series, and you said series If I had to guess, I would say it was something manufactured by Blade. They seemed to do some things back in the day that were less than common.

Believe it or not, a lot of Michael Jackson's songs have pretty solid bass.

The Eclipse 34230 (2-channel) wasn't bridgeable and wasn't 2ohm stereo stable That makes #2 for you Anyways, to answer the original question yes you can run 2ohm per channel on the front 2 channels and 4ohm per channel on the rear 2 channels.

None of us are. Doesn't stop us from trying

Rest voltage isn't what is important. How your electrical system performs under load however is important, which you didn't test. Anything we tell you is going to be a guess. It depends on how your electrical will handle the load of the amplifier, your listening habits, your music selection, other accessories in the automobile, etc. I run a "2000 watt" system (of all class A/B amplifiers) on a stock alt & single HC1800 battery with virtually no voltage drop, but that's because I'm not actually using anywhere near the actual rated power of my amplifiers. Really the only thing you can do is hook up the system and see how it handles it. If you do have voltage problems, then you can come ask for advice on the most effective method of resolving the specific issues you are having.

The most immediate benefit would be not placing their own employment status in jeopardy solely to save yours. Additionally, it's a slap in the face to every employee who shows up every day and does follow the policies to allow someone in blatant violation of policy to continue doing such. You don't think every other employee there would like to use their job to make more money for themselves by siphoning out customers for their own profit? Sure, they all would. But they don't. Why should you be able to walk in everyday and disrespect every single one of your coworkers? Why should they allow you to do it once they discover it? So theft is okay as long as it's from a big enough pool no one will notice? That's basically your argument, and it holds zero water. Stealing cash from the cash drawer and stealing business from your employer are exactly the same thing. Would you have walked up the cash drawer, grabbed a handful and walked out simply because BB is "large enough not to care"? No, probably not primarily because there would be a higher risk of getting caught. But your argument by default requires that you would if it wasn't for the higher risk. Look at the larger picture. BB has thousands of employees. What if 1000 employees each stole $1000 worth of income through lost business and other "petty" crimes from them each year? That's $1,000,000 of lost revenue to the company. You are not an individual, you are an organization of thousands of people.

I'm probably going to come off as an arrogant asshole in this post, but so be it. IMO "snitch" and "narc" are a junior high words. The equivalent of children calling people tattletales. To me, it's a sign of immaturity. At some point in life you will outgrow the mentality that reporting behavior that violates certain rules, codes of conduct, etc is not necessarily a negative action. People are responsible for their own actions. If you are performing actions that cause negative repercussions, you have no one to blame but yourself regardless of how those actions were discovered. Certainly there are circumstances where someone is being overly "nitpicky" and create a nuisance rather than doing anything constructive, but that's not what those terms are used to imply. Those terms have a negative connotation against someone who is actually doing the right thing by advising the proper levels of authority of misdoings. Victim? No. The only thing you are a "victim" of is your own actions of willingly and knowingly violating your companies policies. You have no one to blame but yourself. Calling yourself a "victim" attempts to place the blame on someone else. You do realize companies have policies in place for a reason, correct? There are a wide multitude of reasons, ranging from codes of conduct to legal issues. In many cases, if a coworker is aware of certain policy violations but fails to report those actions, they can also be held accountable. Why should someone else put themselves in jeopardy so that you can continue doing something that you both know is wrong and will have repercussions? There can be legal repercussions as well. When this lady that works for me was in high school, she was aware that people at her employer were taking money from the cash drawer but never told anyone. The employer finally caught on and the police investigated. She had charges brought against her as an accessory to the crime since she knew they were doing it but did not report it, even though she never personally took a dime. People need to learn to deal with the consequences of their own actions, rather than blaming others for their own wrong doings and trying to claim to be a "victim" of anything other than their own bad judgment.

These types of responses and NOT acceptable on this forum. If you follow the recommended posting guidelines and act respectfully your visits here will be very pleasant. Continue with this level of maturity and attitude, and your stay here will be very brief. This thread is closed due to the general lack of usefulness. If you want to receive meaningful responses to your thread, ask intelligent questions ("which will be louder" is not one) that follow the posting guidelines and refrain from this type of behavior. Being new to car audio doesn't excuse you from following the rules. The search function is also your friend.

Pretty sweet looking motor. Any prospect of moving a similar style of motor into a non-SPL oriented driver?

So why would you use a DMM instead knowing that each amp clips at different levels? Ignoring issues is a surefire way to blow things up. A minor variation in clipping levels isn't going to be enough to matter. If there is a dramatic difference in clipping points, then there are some QC issues that need worked out in the amplifiers. Oscope isn't necessarily a clipping-avoider anyways. Sure, with a 0db test tone clipping will be avoided. But the anemic average power output resulting from using a 0db test tone to set the gain isn't going to satisfy a lot of people and not optimize the use of power from the amplifier. That's why there are so many complaints about a loss of output when someone follows the DMM gain setting tutorials. A less conservative gain setting is going to allow a higher average power output but with some minor clipping of the transient peaks. A small amount of clipping at the transient peaks isn't going to damage anything unless you are already way overpowering the drivers. My advice would be to just set one of the amps by ear, then measure the voltage and set the other to match. Anybody with properly functioning ears and a little experience should be capable of satisfactorily setting a gain by ear. The DMM/Oscope method is a good recommendation to help someone completely lost find a decent starting point. Beyond that about the only time I'd worry about a DMM is to level match multiple amplifiers.

Like I said, it can work in certain shops. But with the way some of the members in here were blaspheming some shops for not carrying the brand, I think it's important to realize 1) there are disadvantages and 2) the simple fact that it's simply not going to fit every shop's business model or customer base. As thecartel has pointed out, his bread-n-butter is the $500 system market. Does that suck? Sure it does. I'm sure every shop wishes they could sell the product they wanted rather than what the customer demanded. If someone is open-minded and walking into the shop looking at a $2k system then yes, that may a decent selling opportunity depending on the financial condition of the shop to afford to carry some extra inventory in the hopes of selling it to a customer. But upselling a customer from a $500 system to a $700 amplifier is no small feat regardless of your salesmanship abilities. Having buy in inventory sit around waiting for the prime customers to walk in the door, that's tied up capital that may have better utilization for the shop. My point is simply that it's not a one-size-fits-all situation, and I didn't see many others making that point. Just a lot of complaining about shop X not carrying brand Y without thinking of reasons why that may be the case.

And then the customer turns around and walks out the door, and you just lost a sale. It's easy to say "you could just" when it's not your money, paycheck and business on the line. Badmouthing another product to try to sell your own is a pretty terrible sales tactic, and one that's sure to drive the customer straight out of the door. Just the same as the people on here get offended when the shops bad mouth Sundown, a customer is definitely going to get offended when you bad mouth a product they own or like in order to push Sundown. If a customer walks in the door with $500 for a couple subs and an amp, if you can't meet their needs they are going to go somewhere that can. If a customer walks in looking for a specific product, if you can't mee their needs, they are going to go somewhere that can. Pushing Sundown on everyone who walks through the door is going to put a smaller shop out of business pretty quickly. A lot of people already have a pretty good idea of what they want before they walk through the door. If you can't meet their request, they're going to go elsewhere. A business owners goal is to make money. The way to make money is to offer products the customers desire, not to only sell them products you like. That's the route to failure. I'm not saying that no shop should carry Sundown or other smaller companies. Certainly it can work well for certain shops. But it is not going to be the right fit for every shop's business model, making it sound like it should be simply means you don't understand business.

Yes, deaden the whole door. You want to seal any holes in the metal door panel so that the "backwave" from the speaker is completely separated from the "frontwave" of the speakers. No, we weren't talking about those cheap foam baffles. Also, have you tried reversing the polarity on one of the mids? Just because the positive wire is connected to the positive terminal, it does not mean the sound reaching your ears is in phase.

You just proved their point for them. If the shop hasn't heard of Sundown, how many of their customer base has? Ideally a business will carry what products their customers demand. If five guys a year walk in and ask why they don't carry some relatively small brand that's right down the road, and five hundred people walk in the door asking for MTX/Kicker/Etc, what do you think is going to give the shop the most sales? You could try to make the argument that if they carried Sundown they could offer it and possible sell it to some of those other 500 customers....but then all you're doing is making the salespersons job more difficult. Admittedly some will be "converted" to the different brand, but the majority probably won't be willing to take a chance on the unknown and potentially think the salesman is blowing smoke, reducing their credibility and potentially losing what otherwise would have been a sale. And there are disadvantages to taking the chance and stocking the product....they have the inventory carrying costs which ties up capital that could be spent elsewhere (since inventory will potentially move slowly for an unfamiliar brand), you have the time in product training, you have the time in updating the computer systems, you have the difficulty of trying to sell unfamiliar product A over familiar product B to the customers, etc. It's not "free" to the shop to pick up a new brand, especially one that will potentially have poor sales due to limited brand awareness. It's great you've been in business for 4 years and continue to grow. But frankly in the grand scheme of things, you're still pretty small. Most of the major brands that are carried by these shops likely sell more nationally in a couple weeks than Sundown does in a year. Is that a knock on Sundown? No, it's just a fact. Brand awareness is a pretty important factor, and those brands have much greater awareness in the masses. And I would probably have to take off my shoes to count the number of smaller car audio companies I've watched fail over the years. How long was Adire, for example, in business? At least 4 years I'm sure, and they toppled. Sundown is not immune. My point isn't to look like I'm bashing Sundown, but rather point out that it's a little ridiculous to chastise a shop for not carrying Sundown or any other smaller company. The businesses have to weigh the risk/reward for doing such, and many of them at this juncture probably due not foresee enough of a payoff. EDIT: I didn't read thecartel's response before posting, but it looks like he pretty much proves my point.

Thank you for the review on them! I cant wait to hear what you hear. BTW, are you still running them? Still passive? How do they REALLY sound? LOL. Yeah, still running them and still passive. I need to grab some more connectors to wire them up active as it's just a matter of switching some wires, but I've been busy and haven't gotten around to it. It's pretty low on my to do list right now How do they REALLY sound? Very good in my opinion. I'm still more than pleased with them after a month of daily listening. They are detailed and just overall very "listenable" to sum it up briefly. Are they perfect? No, of course not....no speaker is. But at just a hair over $200 now in the group buy, I don't think you'll find anything that compares in the same price range in the pre-built comp set market. I can't imagine anyone putting these speakers in a competent install and being displeased. Most of the main "problems" with my system right now are pretty much directly attributable to the installation.

I believe Zed revised the rated power figures between original conception and time of production. Zed's Manual and both third-party reviews linked to from his website all list rated power as 150w @ 4ohm, 250w @ 2ohm and 500w @ 4ohm bridged. Both tests report the Leviathan exceeding those power output ratings at 14.4V. It was originally anticipated to have ratings of 150/300/600. But none of the "official" material for the production units list those figures anymore. Which really isn't a big deal, IMO. Stephen revised the ratings as appropriate to accurately reflect actual performance for the production units, and the difference between both 250w and 300w, and 500w and 600w, is less than 1db which means the actual power difference between preproduction estimates and production unit ratings/performance is completely inaudible. I think the SSA store just needs to update the product information.

Those CF's are a great deal at these prices. If anyone was considering upgrading their speakers, now is the time to do it!

Please elaborate on the "dirty power" comment and what makes Sundown less "dirty"?

Just curious what reviews you were looking at. Got any links?

I think the banner at the top of this section needs an update. It shows a picture of the older Draconia instead of either of his newer amps

That's a no-brainer. . You hooked the power antenna lead up for the remote turn-on instead. When you switch to a source different from the tuner, it switches the antenna lead off and likewise, your amplifier. Switch the leads and you should be good. The unit should have a separate wire for amplification control. Was just getting ready to say the same thing.

I cheat and use MS Excel to calculate just about everything math related

Not half of the voltage. That is incorrect. You would multiple your "passband" voltage by .707, and that would give you the target voltage for the crossover, or the -3db point of the signal. We can verify this with Ohms Law, which I'll show down below. You could just start with an 80hz tone and leave the crossover off (assuming it has an "off" switch or the range is adjustable enough to leave the initial signal unaffected). But you wouldn't have a target voltage of 10V for the -3db point. The target voltage for the -3db point, based on a 20V starting voltage, would be 14.14V. We can verify this back with Ohms Law. For example purposes, we'll pretend load (speaker) is 4ohm. 20V^2/4ohm = 100w 14.14V^2/4ohm = 49.9w (we'll just round this up to an even 50) 10*log(100/50) = 3db So, we just verified the difference in voltage is 3db The reason the target voltage for the -3db point of the signal is .707 and not half is because the decibel difference for voltage is a 20*log function and not a 10*log function like power output differences are. 20*log(1/.707) = 3db Half voltage would instead be -6db.

Strand count doesn't really matter for anything other than flexibility. As long as it's pure copper and properly sized wire for the stated gauge, it doesn't matter, wire is wire. Lamp cord from Home Depot will work exactly the same as speaker wire from Knu provided they are both copper and both the same gauge. The gain would be minimal. If you are competing in SPL, you may see a tenth or two of a difference if you want from 14ga down to something like 8ga. Theoretically there is an inaudible but measurable difference.