altoncustomtech

I'll have to find the information again but the answer to Question #2 is the EBP, Efficiency Bandwidth Product. It's a figure using a few of the theile/small params that can tell you if it's best suited for sealed or ported. On Question #1 there are formula's available to help make those calculations and determine the box size. However, a decent program like WinISD or BassBox Pro can get you 3/4 of the way in the direction you need to go. Another idea is to check to see if the manufacturer has any information available. There's still no substitute for trial and error either. Just because some program says it's good doesn't mean it will be. You'll have to build it, listen to it and see if it yields the results you're after, and if its not then rebuild. Formulas, websites and software can get you close and sometimes well within the area of respectable results, but a little tweaking and playing can get almost always get it better. It wouldn't hurt get you a copy of Vance Dickason's "Loudspeaker Cook Book" either. It goes through the theories and processes and gives examples and such. Very good source to learn from.

HOLY CRAP! The magnet boot for the X8?

^^ This. If you're wanting to wrap the box in carpet or vinyl, this is about the only good way to get the result you want. I have seen some intricate work done with 3/16" Balsa (I think, some soft easy to cut hobby wood) that had the edges rounded by sanding then glued on followed by some bondo work and painted. Looked really really good when it was completed but also took A LOT of work to do right. Stencil's will be the easiest to do, but no matter which way you choose to do it you'll want to take your time so it looks good. Be sure to post pics too!!

Happy Birthday dude!

I agree, see if you can find a buddy, or a friend of a friend perhaps, who has a car trailer and is trustworthy. It will be much cheaper than hiring some company to do it.

Who told you the Q is a better alternative and why did they say that? The Q and BL were designed and intended for different applications, however they're not a night and day difference from one to the other. Drop both into enclosures that are optimally designed and built for each and you're not going to notice a drastic difference in the overall sound between the two, but you will notice the BL getting louder for each click of the volume. Generally anytime someone asks which to get, we suggest the BL. The reason being is that there's been too many users out there who bought the Q's and weren't satisfied with the output. As it says on Fi's website the BL is covering the gap between the Q and BTL. It still sounds great, but with the ability to exceed the Q's in output. You should get the BL and be sure to build the proper enclosure for it. You won't be disappointed.

Exactly. The SPL level the 18's can create will be very difficult for ANY component set to keep up with. As Aaron said, it's all about balance. You set the amp for the components then set your subs to be level with them, not the other way around. Also, just because it's a 3-way set DOESN'T by any means make it louder than anything else. The point of it being 3-way is to help with response. Gives more of the frequencies played to drivers DESIGNED to play those frequencies.

You could try this page HERE.

WOW! C'mon guys, hell of a deal here!! They're just fine ran passive, I believe Impious is still running his set passive after 4-5 months of use. They're rated at 120wrms. I dunno if they could keep up with 2 18" XCON's, doubtful IMO, that seems like ALOT of bass to keep up with.

Thanks for the replies guys. The subs are crossed at 70hz, the components at 100hz. Snappy drum sound was probably not the best way to leave the description. It's the fundamental that goes with the drum that the subs play when I first heard it. Now, at any point in time if it's turned up loud enough I can hear it whether it's a drum beat or a deep bass line. Yeah it's definitely not a noise from the driver. As mentioned when the van is completely open there's no noise to be heard but sweet music. I have nearly as much phasing testing as a person would ever want to in attempts to find a solution to another problem. The phenomenon was evident no matter the phasing of the subs or speakers. Alright, gotta admit this I cannot absolutely rule out. While I've not been able to localize it to any particular panel, trim, etc. in the structure of the van that doesn't mean it's not the problem. Reason being that by the time it's loud enough to hear the distortion type sound everything is already so energized it's hard to localize much of anything, lol. I wish there was some way to get a recording of it. It straight up sounds like distortion, but goes completely away as soon as the van is opened up. There's no distortion on the scope, and as best I can tell it's not any of the body/trim panels. The entire rear of the van has one layer of deadener on it, with two in trouble spots and CCF as well. There's a very good possibility it could be a panel or structural support somewhere but I've not been able to locate any problems anywhere yet. I've definitely gotten more rattles and things loose with them but when I hear and find them I take care of 'em so I dunno for sure.

Happy Birthday!! BIG Thank You from me for all you've done to help educate myself and the masses, hope your birthday is a great one!!

Alright, I've been trying to figure this out since I finished the new install. The Q's and Sundown amps sound amazing, they really do. I've never had anything that sounds like they do, so deep, so accurate and SO forceful, they're really quite amazing. However, I noticed a strange phenomenon right after installation that I kind of chocked up to the fact they were still very tight. After several months of playing it got worse instead of better, and at the car show last November I discovered something interesting about the phenomenon and have been studying and working on the how and why of it since. Problem is, I can't find any good information on it. So at this point, you're probably wondering what the hell I'm talking about. This phenomenon I'm referring to is as best I can describe it, some sort of acoustical distortion. When I first installed the Q's and Sundowns I noticed that on certain songs it would sound like there was distortion when the bass would "hit". I'm not talking songs like "a milli" or "top back" or some other bass heavy song either, I'm talkin' songs like the Eagles "Hotel California" and "Take It Easy". In particular it was the hard, snappy drums that I noticed first. I IMMEDIATELY got my o'scope back out and double checked everything and verified the gains were set correctly. No distortion at all according to the o'scope and it's wonderful software . Confident everything was alright and assuming it was just my ears needing to adjust to the sheer force and output of the new setup I continued to monitor the situation especially since it seemed I was the only one who could hear it. I noticed as time went on that I would hear the distortion anytime the music was turned up loud until the car show in November. At that car show I was playing the system wide open, for all it had pretty much the whole time I was there and it sounded absolutely beautiful. No distortion, no nothing which REALLY caught my attention! After the show I went home and played around with it and discovered that the ONLY time I hear it is when the van is closed up. I can still hear it if something like just the front windows are down, or one door is open, but if I open the van completely up its gone. So I've been trying to figure out exactly what the distortion is called and most importantly WHY I'm hearing it AND HOW can I remediate it if that's even possible. Which brings me to posting this topic. I know someone will know what's going on and I'm sure it's WAY simpler than I've made it as I explained it here. Most of the research I've done into distortion has been 97% electrical distortion with very little good information on anything having to do with distortion related to acoustics which is where I am sure my problems lies. That or I'm not looking for the right terms. Thank you for the help guys, I'm looking forward to the lesson on this one.

to the forum!

Something HAS to be wired wrong, plain and simple. If I want them to my Q's can run right over the top of my components anytime at volumes low enough that you can barely even notice them moving, and if I had the BL's it would be even more of an issue. The sub will get plenty loud, don't worry about that, but you really really really need to check all your wiring cuz something just isn't right.

Are you sure you have the voice coils wired correctly? If you have one out of phase from the other it will barely make a sound at all. It sounds like that is the problem to me, you really should triple check to be sure. Just my .02

Yep, I officially change my stance from #2 to #4.... I'd buy several #4's right away if that's the design you guys go with... probably 2 black and 2 white if you offered both colors...

I like this one myself.

Good luck with the set, I'm also looking forward to the test results and the time when you go for regular (non-shallow) components as well.

lol... I love the crazy shit you're always doin' too... I feel sorry for that van though, lol... keep it up dude, and good luck with the problems! 23hz at 149db has got to be REAL nasty BTW, poor van....

Being a former Hifonics owner and user I can say that they're fine if you're on a tight budget. They don't quite get to rated power in my experience, but they do get very close. However, I would recommend saving a little longer and buying something else, if you have the patience. Lots of people have luck with AQ amps, they're not too pricey. Sundown's not a bad way to go of course, but there's so many other brands out there that are great as well, the list can be VERY long. I see lots of people recommend Audiopipe amps and they seem to have good luck with them. The pricing is very similar in watt per dollar as Hifonics as well.

Awesome, glad to see I'm not the only one with that impression of them. Either of you had a chance to play them yet?

Gotta say, he's been excellent to deal with. First off he noticed I was looking for a SAX-100.2 and offered in a PM to sell me the one he had. Sent me pictures, explained it was a DB-r refurb and even showed pictures of it powered up since he hadn't even hooked it up since he got it. He kept me informed of every step from beginning to end. For example, he didn't have a PP account yet. He told me so, asked a question or two about it, and let me know as he went through setting it up where he was at in the process. Then when he had the amp ready to ship, I payed him and he kept me informed on every step he took getting it out. Point is, I couldn't have asked for a better transaction. He worked the process very quickly, shipped it quickly, and the amp came to me exactly as he had described it and the pictures showed it. If he has anything else to sell that I'm in the market for, I'll definitely be going to him to get it and for everyone else, don't be afraid to buy from him.

to the forum! Good choice on amp as well.

I agree with everyone above. If you're looking to get more output get another BL like the one you have, get another 1500 and strap them. Just make absolutely sure if you go that route that you have the electrical to support 3k+ of power. Just my .02

I dunno, seems to me 8 twelve's would have to get fairly loud... I'm not an SPL comp guy tho, so lol... just kiddin'.... good job on the score dude, next time get at least a crappy pic with ur cellphone to keep the haters happy.... At any rate, I gotta join the harassment as well....