altoncustomtech

Duh, don't know why I didn't think of it sooner. I'm 100% on board with the passive radiator suggestion. Basically all the benefits of a ported enclosure with no port at all.

I love that analogy, lol. However, 1cuft is not overly large for a 10 sealed, and on the low end of the recommended scale by Kicker for the CVR's. The DCON's optimal sealed enclosure size .9cuft and Kicker recommends from .8cuft to 3cuft. WinISD verifies the CVR likes the larger 3cuft for a Q of .7 and a good smooth response. The Sundown E10 is another story though, as Sundown recommends .5cuft, but the response doesn't vary a great deal in WinISD from .5cuft to 1cuft to 2cuft. The problem for any of them in the larger sealed enclosures is the XMAX and it does run out of XMAX pretty fast in an enclosure larger than .5cuft. The DCON doesn't run out of steam until a little under 32hz, and the Kicker runs out of steam WAY before the other two. I don't know if ISD just doesn't like the math (Kicker doesn't post any of the important T/S parameters) or if it's really that limited. I'm not sure how accurate the ISD excursion plots are either, so that all needs taken with a grain of salt. It does give an idea of how things look and from what I see the Kickers are running out of steam at ~61hz, the DCON runs out of steam at ~30hz and the E10 at ~45hz in 1cuft enclosures. The E10 can get to about 25hz in .5cuft before reaching it's XMAX limits. All those are taken with 400watts as the signal power, that changes with less power applied of course. I do agree, there's plenty of 12's out there that would be at home in 1 cuft sealed enclosures. If the boxes are wide enough to support the cutout for a 12" sub it's a direction that the OP could go and actually get some gain in output.

I would definitely use some sort of bracing, no matter the orientation. Some 1.5" dowel rods or 2x2's will do great for bracing and not use up enough internal space to affect tuning any noticeable amount. For example, three 2x2 braces, two at 21 inches long to brace top to bottom, one at 19.75 to brace front to back on one side of the sub only take up .142cuft of internal space. Dowel rods would be a little less than that. With 7cuft of space that .142 just won't make any noticeable difference.

Here's what it could look like with a the port with two 90's turning back inside the enclosure. Keep in mind these are really quick and simple drawings. I don't readily have all the dimension info for the aeroports handy, nor do I know for certain the bend radius of any 4" elbows that will fit the aeroport tubes. The purpose is just to show that it may not completely impossible to achieve what you're wanting to do. You will have to do extra measurements and such to be certain.

I took all the info you posted and drew up a quick rendering of what it was you're trying to do. You're right, the port will interfere with the sub, as you should be able to see in the drawing. Now, I put two sub cutouts on it so you could see each end of the port and it's relationship to the cutout. You should be able to put two 90 degree bends together and turn the port 180 back on itself inside the enclosure and fit the length you need to get your 33hz tune AND clear the sub. I'm drawing that up right now. Here's a quick drawing of your current scenario.

Probably not much. Is there any stuffing/polyfill in the boxes now? You might try going that route and seeing how it helps. Generally to increase bottom end response in a sealed enclosure you need a larger sealed enclosure. The trade off will be a bit of a dip in the upper end response, but car audio is all about compromises. The polyfill can help, get some pillow stuffing from Wally World and start with about 1/2 pound in each and see how it sounds. I wouldn't go more than 1 pound in each though.

I agree. There's just not going to be a real noticeable difference in output just changing the subs out, period. Without changing something else you're just going to piss money away. Do not opt for the Skar and there's so many reasons why you shouldn't, just do a quick search. If you're dead set on blowing some cash on new subs the Sundown E10's wouldn't be a bad way to spend it, nor would a pair of DCON 10's. It will be a waste of money though as we've tried to tell you "YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HEAR ANY REAL DIFFERENCE!" If you don't believe us, model the subs in WinISD all in the same 1.2cuft enclosures with the same power applied and you'll see our point.

Yes, it is an 11 1/8" cutout. Which will make it a tad tight, then just sand to trim it down to fit nice and tight.

AMEN brotha! Lol, very very informative. I think you did an amazing job spelling out every step, explaining it in enough detail to get the step across without making it too lengthy, and covered everything from beginning to end. Amazing job dude.

Finally got this thread to load again, lol. Yeah I'd be glad to help you out. Post up the max dims you can work with and other information like the orientation you prefer (sub up, port back, etc), double baffle yes/no, things of that sort and we'll get after it. You're going to love the XCON's, I'm sure of it. I've not had a chance to listen to mine yet, but I've yet to hear a bad word about them.

Definitely not an HD. From all the pictures I've looked at on a few generations of their subs it's either a DX or an XD series. Really hard to tell the difference without a better look at the motor or a look at the cone. One thing is absolutely certain, no matter which series it is a pair of them is sure as hell not worth $400. I've found several stores online that they start at <$100 and found the DX for as low as $60. $400 is a ripoff artists dream come true.

From the pictures I found online it looks to be a DX series. Every series above that seems to have cast aluminum frames on them, that one looks like stamped steel. Like you said, it could be an older version or something, but all the pictures I can find the DX is the only series that has that frame so far.

You're missing so much on the low end with tuning that high. You're right on the cone area, but I think we can find you a happy medium for two 12's. Two 10's would work really good in that space but you'd lose a fair amount of cone area doing so. As I mentioned before something like the Q's can fit in that much space. They may be a little peakier in the smaller size (still at the Fi's recommended minimum though) and a little light on port area but they would probably still sound much better than the Opti's as the enclosure tuning I figured for was 32hz. You're also not mentioning probably the best fit for what you're doing, the SSD. They'll handle the amps thermally, especially with the cooling option, have the same basic enclosure size recommendations as the Q does, and they can be bought several dollars cheaper than the Q, almost approaching the SA12 in price. Two of the SSD's could fit in that enclosure size restrictions with 3.6cuft NET volume and 54sqin of port area tuned to 32hz. I like the SSD's for your application the best.

I currently have two lanzar opti 1232D in my car so Idk why u think two 12s wont fit And my max height dimension are 14", why would u say get a 15? lol At this point you've not mentioned the configuration of the enclosure you would be using, the 15 would work in that enclosure in a sub up, port forward/rear configuration. You may have two twelves in that size enclosure now, and that size may be optimal for the Opti's but it won't be optimal for the Fi Q's or ICON's. They can be shoehorned into an enclosure that size but the response will be peakier and the port will be a good deal smaller than it should be. The SA's are more suited to that size enclosure according to Sundown's specifications. The real question is why are you wanting to upgrade? What about the Lanzars isn't making you happy? The majority of the time the biggest reason a person isn't happy with a sub isn't because of the sub itself but because the enclosure isn't right for the sub. What are the specifications on the enclosure the Opti's are in?

I agree with Bassink, you really need some extra room for a pair of 12's to fit comfortably with enough space for an acceptable size port and sub displacements as well. That being said, you've got a great space there for a single 15 of which the ICON or XCON would do very well. You don't need to feed an XCON RMS power to get it loud either. Now if the amps were strapable you could even throw a 15" ZCON in the lineup with no problems, but they don't appear to be strapable.

The XCON's will perform just fine on ~1600 watts each. I would keep to the enclosure recommendations of 5 to 5.5cuft NET with somewhere in the 120sqin or more of port area. I can help you draw something up too if needed.

It's simple, but effective, and MUCH cheaper and easier than building an enclosure just to find out it won't go in the car.

Oh that's not intended to be used, unless he wants it sub up/port back. I wouldn't think that's ideal either, but there's people who do it. I was just showing him a quick drawing so he could get an idea of what he was thinking about, what it could look like and to show it's easy enough to toss some ideas out there in 3D which makes it easy to see how different configurations work. The subs could just as easily be on the front of the enclosure if that's what he want to do. The easiest way to find how just how big you can go is to make a cardboard mach-up of the enclosure you plan to use and see if it can pass through the opening. By using the cardboard you can see exactly how big you can fit before running into issues with sliding it in.

The miniDSP does EQ also, so no need for another device. You do need a computer for tuning (setting XO points, slopes, EQ, T/A, etc). With a laptop you can sit in the driver seat, and adjust everything on the fly. I could not find any info on the miniDSP site on anything other than crossover and EQ controls. I wasn't aware they could do T/A as well. Nice price for such a powerful little box, lol. Reading > me. They just call it output delay. LOL

It's looking really good so far. That red will really look good against the black.

Very kewl, simple and effective. Nice to see a good way of doing that. I've not yet had to do any fabrication of the sort which would require matching angles like that, but it sure looks like another good tool to have in the belt so to speak. Thanks for posting this up!

I think it's interesting just how completely random it seems to be. For example, I was on here about two hours ago and was using the "View new content" link without any issues. Just tried it again and poop, no worky, with the same machine and browser, nothing has changed. Also earlier I got the error when trying to go to the 4" VC heavy hitters page from the "View new content" page. Went back to the site index and had no problems going to the first page or the third page, but couldn't go to the second page. Random isn't a good enough description for how it happens. I have no training or knowledge about web pages, design, etc. but considering the little annoyance is still plaguing the site it must really be a bear to track down. I feel for you guys, I can't imagine how many emails and PM's you're probably getting on it.

The first thing I did when I received the errors on this site was to clear the cache and cookes. Not helped one bit. It's funny I can copy/paste the link into another browser on the same machine and it work once, then it may not work on any browser later.

Kewl vid, very cute girl!

There's not any "Rule of thumb" or ratio for enclosure size and tuning. WinISD is also not the best program to use for designing enclosures for the car audio environment. It's not too bad for getting an idea of what the response might be like for a given driver in a given enclosure, but sometimes it's just way wrong and it has no idea what the response will be once it's in the car. I would never go just on what it says but when it comes to the box specs posted by SSA you can bet that the recommended enclosure sizes are correct and ideal for the sub and 3cuft is right at the top of the recommended range. 32hz or 34hz you're probably not going to be able to hear a real noticeable difference between the two. What's the max dimensions you have to work with? I can help you design and draw something up if you want.