Just looking for an opinion here. I have not used either, but I have a rep that is trying to sell me a W7 for 400 and I've been looking at the XCON, but of course the rep is saying that the W7 is by far better than the XCON. He's stated that he has been a JL rep for the last 7 years and he has yet to hear a sub sound as clean and heart pounding as the W7. With no preference towards spl or sq, what do you guys think the better buy would be, or just give me something for arguments sake. He says that the W7 is a better built product and the research invested into the W7 makes it the better choice. I know some of what he says is true, and I'm getting dealer cost here for the W7, If I wasn't my guess would be the XCON would be the better buy. Maybe some examples of why either would be a better choice for SQ or SPL. I know everyone has their preference, and its all in the install, etc... Does anyone have any experience with both?

Maybe I just like finding ways to get reps to shut up. I think either way I will get the XCON, because I don't like buying mainstream stuff. So, this is just really more for arguments sake, and something I can feed back to the rep. Maybe give him something to think about.

Apples to Wombats.

They both are solid, solid, solid woofers. If you are getting them for dealer cost.. It's a flip of the coin, The JL has a slight cone area advantage, but the Xcon has a power handling advantage.

Lots of time has been put into the Xcons..

Just looking for an opinion here. I have not used either, but I have a rep that is trying to sell me a W7 for 400 and I've been looking at the XCON, but of course the rep is saying that the W7 is by far better than the XCON. He's stated that he has been a JL rep for the last 7 years and he has yet to hear a sub sound as clean and heart pounding as the W7. With no preference towards spl or sq, what do you guys think the better buy would be, or just give me something for arguments sake. He says that the W7 is a better built product and the research invested into the W7 makes it the better choice. I know some of what he says is true, and I'm getting dealer cost here for the W7, If I wasn't my guess would be the XCON would be the better buy. Maybe some examples of why either would be a better choice for SQ or SPL. I know everyone has their preference, and its all in the install, etc... Does anyone have any experience with both?

Maybe I just like finding ways to get reps to shut up. I think either way I will get the XCON, because I don't like buying mainstream stuff. So, this is just really more for arguments sake, and something I can feed back to the rep. Maybe give him something to think about.

just speaking from my personal experience, I Loved my 12" W7 was running a JL 1000/1 in the H.O. factory ported box and it sounded great,my best score was 141.7db in a trunk car. I got everything at a stupid good deal on craigslist. be careful of what u buy, check everything out first but there are alot of W7's for way cheaper out there. As for the Xcon's im sure they are great subs, seen some nice excursion video's of the Xcon !! wherever you can get the better deal on is how i would decide, you cant loose either way there.just recently sold my 12" w7 and h.o. box and 1000/1 amp for $600.00 on craigs list, plenty of good deals out there just do as much research as you can before you make a big investment.

My connection went out in the middle of a reply. Anyway, I will not lie, the W7 is an excellent driver and I will do my best to keep my bias out of this topic as I have experience with both. But I find it very interesting the JL rep seems to know the DNA/lineage of the Xcon even though I would bet he has never even seen one in person and would venture to guess he has no idea how well they are built. Curious if JL can claim zero warranty failures on the W7? (yes I know there are a crap load more out there, but still would be interesting). Mark and I did not just slap some parts together and hope for the best, we are working with one of the best engineering teams period for a reason.

One thing to think about is amount you are paying for a name in each product.

Just looking for an opinion here. I have not used either, but I have a rep that is trying to sell me a W7 for 400 and I've been looking at the XCON, but of course the rep is saying that the W7 is by far better than the XCON. He's stated that he has been a JL rep for the last 7 years and he has yet to hear a sub sound as clean and heart pounding as the W7. With no preference towards spl or sq, what do you guys think the better buy would be, or just give me something for arguments sake. He says that the W7 is a better built product and the research invested into the W7 makes it the better choice. I know some of what he says is true, and I'm getting dealer cost here for the W7, If I wasn't my guess would be the XCON would be the better buy. Maybe some examples of why either would be a better choice for SQ or SPL. I know everyone has their preference, and its all in the install, etc... Does anyone have any experience with both?

Maybe I just like finding ways to get reps to shut up. I think either way I will get the XCON, because I don't like buying mainstream stuff. So, this is just really more for arguments sake, and something I can feed back to the rep. Maybe give him something to think about.

Heres my opinion: Jl audio is mass produced and although the research is there there speakers are JUST AHHHH AHHH AHHH no SQ at all. but on a good note you only need 1000rms to make them MOVE! my brother in law had two 13.5 W7 in a dakota with the matching Jl audio 1000.1 V2 to each speaker and it POUNDED no doubt about that but I had 1 18" BTL in a jimmy and a hifonics amp and was POUNDING just as hard as him. Underground companys(not mainstream) are in this for what it is the LOVE of the sport or hobby/ I would suggest the XCON because the money is going to be put to a better use like supporting a company that is trying to GROW and make a way better PRODUCT then mainstream for a fraction of there price! Mark is a great guy and the XCON is a great product. I hear 1 12" XCON in a trunk and I would of voted that it was 2 for sure..... It was CLEAR pounding bass as well. You could feel as well as hear every note POUND! so from one who has heard and felt both I VOTE XCON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Apples to Wombats.

They both are solid, solid, solid woofers. If you are getting them for dealer cost.. It's a flip of the coin, The JL has a slight cone area advantage, but the Xcon has a power handling advantage.

Lots of time has been put into the Xcons..

I have owned a 13w7 previously and I was not impressed especially for the price. I also hate how they have 1.5ohm coils. I built 3 different boxes for the thing and at times the bass seemed muddy with every box. Currently I own (2) 12" Xcons and I love them. I can say you will not be disappointed if you purchase the Xcon as I believe it is the far superior choice between the two.

Both are great subs and that is a nice price on that W7.

Like Julian said, W7 has cone advantage and Xcon has the power handling advantage. Both sound damn good.

I am a SSA homer, so I vote xcon. lol

Both are great speakers. I have owned 4 13w7s on 4 1000/1v2s and it sounded pretty good and got decently loud. I have never heard an Xcon, but I have heard Icons and I actually liked them better than the w7s. I'm sure I'd like the Xcon better than the I con as well.

Another thing to think about if you go with the w7. If you do ever blow it and need a recone, be prepared to pay about as much as you're paying for the sub itself now.

Another thing to think about if you go with the w7. If you do ever blow it and need a recone, be prepared to pay about as much as you're paying for the sub itself now.

Good point ^.

Also a good point about the odd ball coils by S.DeYoung.

XCON

You will not be disappointed, they are really badass subs!

My brother has a W7 in a sealed enclosure and I was not impressed at all. Once i built a properly built ported enclosure it shined real well. BUT due to the W7 being a 3 ohm subwoofer it puts alot of strain on his Alpine amp. For that reason I would choose the Xcon all day over it. You are pretty much limited to purchasing a JL amp to run it

EDIT: SAW PREVIOUS POST^

Heres my opinion: Jl audio is mass produced and although the research is there there speakers are JUST AHHHH AHHH AHHH no SQ at all.

Really, you couldn't be more wrong. The W7 was basically the first low distortion, high linearity, high output driver in the market. The entire purpose of it's design was to improve BL linearity and reduce distortion while also improving output capabilities by increasing cone area and maintaining a high Xmax (which aside from shear output, the benefits of high displacement capabilities are also a benefit from a "sound quality" perspective as well). Really, it's pretty telling that the design is nearly a decade old now and it's still in the top tier of high performance offerings on the market.

You might say "Nonsense! I've heard the subs in my brother's Dakota and it didn't sound good at all!".....and that very well might be the case. But that's not a fault of the driver. Chances are, it was probably a fault of the installation, enclosure, tuning and/or setup and settings. Which makes your listening experience rather meaningless as a point of comparison. Of course it's possible (but unlikely) that the setup, installation and tuning was perfect in your brothers setup. It's also possible (and more likely), that you simply don't enjoy the sound of a lower distortion, linear driver. Your subjective definition of "good sound" might simply be different than what the W7 offers. But that's a difference in subjective preference, not a difference or deficit in "sound quality". But again, since this is based completely on subjective opinion, it's rather meaningless as a point of comparison.

Underground companys(not mainstream) are in this for what it is the LOVE of the sport or hobby/

I would find it hard to believe someone could spend the time, thought and expense to design a driver like the W7 with all of it's unique and innovative features without being in love with audio. It pushed the envelope of performance and innovation a decade ago, and is still holding it's own a decade later.

Also, keep in mind JL Audio got it's start as a mail order speaker business. They were essentially the equivalent of today's "underground" (internet) brands. They just happened to do it extremely well and as a result have grown and experienced a lot of success over time.

I would suggest the XCON because the money is going to be put to a better use like supporting a company that is trying to GROW

That really doesn't make any sense. Every business is trying to grow ?

and make a way better PRODUCT then mainstream

I would say JL took that idea to a new level when they designed and released the W7.

BUT due to the W7 being a 3 ohm subwoofer it puts alot of strain on his Alpine amp........ You are pretty much limited to purchasing a JL amp to run it

Don't see why it would be a problem......it will work perfectly fine on any amp rated stable down to 2ohm. And really, the DCR isn't that odd-ball. DCR on a 12W7 is 2.47ohm. Compare that to a Fi, who's "dual 2ohm" subwoofers have a DCR of 1.4ohm/coil which when wired in series for a "nominal 4ohm load" would be a DCR of 2.8ohm.

So the DCR of the "3ohm" W7 is .33ohm lower than the DCR of Fi's drivers wired to "4ohm".

BUT due to the W7 being a 3 ohm subwoofer it puts alot of strain on his Alpine amp........ You are pretty much limited to purchasing a JL amp to run it

Don't see why it would be a problem......it will work perfectly fine on any amp rated stable down to 2ohm. And really, the DCR isn't that odd-ball. DCR on a 12W7 is 2.47ohm. Compare that to a Fi, who's "dual 2ohm" subwoofers have a DCR of 1.4ohm/coil which when wired in series for a "nominal 4ohm load" would be a DCR of 2.8ohm.

So the DCR of the "3ohm" W7 is .33ohm lower than the DCR of Fi's drivers wired to "4ohm".

I dont know whether or not its how the Alpine amps run but it get rather warm quickly compared to other brands.

Heres my opinion: Jl audio is mass produced and although the research is there there speakers are JUST AHHHH AHHH AHHH no SQ at all.

Really, you couldn't be more wrong. The W7 was basically the first low distortion, high linearity, high output driver in the market. The entire purpose of it's design was to improve BL linearity and reduce distortion while also improving output capabilities by increasing cone area and maintaining a high Xmax (which aside from shear output, the benefits of high displacement capabilities are also a benefit from a "sound quality" perspective as well). Really, it's pretty telling that the design is nearly a decade old now and it's still in the top tier of high performance offerings on the market.

You might say "Nonsense! I've heard the subs in my brother's Dakota and it didn't sound good at all!".....and that very well might be the case. But that's not a fault of the driver. Chances are, it was probably a fault of the installation, enclosure, tuning and/or setup and settings. Which makes your listening experience rather meaningless as a point of comparison. Of course it's possible (but unlikely) that the setup, installation and tuning was perfect in your brothers setup. It's also possible (and more likely), that you simply don't enjoy the sound of a lower distortion, linear driver. Your subjective definition of "good sound" might simply be different than what the W7 offers. But that's a difference in subjective preference, not a difference or deficit in "sound quality". But again, since this is based completely on subjective opinion, it's rather meaningless as a point of comparison.

Underground companys(not mainstream) are in this for what it is the LOVE of the sport or hobby/

I would find it hard to believe someone could spend the time, thought and expense to design a driver like the W7 with all of it's unique and innovative features without being in love with audio. It pushed the envelope of performance and innovation a decade ago, and is still holding it's own a decade later.

Also, keep in mind JL Audio got it's start as a mail order speaker business. They were essentially the equivalent of today's "underground" (internet) brands. They just happened to do it extremely well and as a result have grown and experienced a lot of success over time.

I would suggest the XCON because the money is going to be put to a better use like supporting a company that is trying to GROW

That really doesn't make any sense. Every business is trying to grow ?

and make a way better PRODUCT then mainstream

I would say JL took that idea to a new level when they designed and released the W7.

Wow! I really appreciate the comments and opinions. Sounds like either way I would go, would be a good choice. Anyone do a driver swap? The recommended enclosures are really close to eachother.

Thé JL IS a good driver, for sure. But, I'm on ssa so I vote XCON ! I loved my Icon and my Xcon.

The W7 is not always the best value but is always one of the top performers, surviving a decade filled with subwoofers designed to knock it off its perch. I've never used an Xcon but I'd never turn down a W7 at a price I could afford.

Just because a product is mainstream doesn't mean it is any less deserving. Buy the best product that fits your budget.

Wow! I really appreciate the comments and opinions. Sounds like either way I would go, would be a good choice. Anyone do a driver swap? The recommended enclosures are really close to eachother.

It depends on what type of enclosure you are looking to use.

The W7 is a little better suited to sealed enclosures than the Xcon, the Xcon is a little more suited to ported enclosures than the W7.

Wait, hold the phone. Where there a Neil sighting?

I have had both subs in my install and built several enclosures for each

the W7 and Xcon are two totally different subs.....

the Xcon will take way more power and hits a bit harder..

the W7 is smoother sounding and can peak at a much lower frequency than the Xcon

for abuse and hard hitting I give it to the Xcon but for SQ I would give it to the W7

..personally I use the Xcon because of the bonus power handling and impact

I remember back when JL was beginning. They were much akin to SSA. A fact that makes it even more impressive is they didn't have the internet back then to grow their business. Everything was word of mouth and the small amount of advertising in magazines. They've always had great products, always will. I would snatch a brand new driver at that price point no matter the opposition. The best thing about the W7 is it's resale value. You can buy that driver, use it for a couple years or more and sell it for the same $400 you paid for it. Simple economics wins here.

Now the beauty about SSA is the personal one-on-one support and detail. YOu can't call and talk to Manville anymore, but I can tell you he is just as enthusiastic as Aaron and Mark. The small internet brands allow us to have more of a relationship with our vendors and get some awesome technical support at drastically reduced prices. You never know; one day we could be comparing a mainstream SSA driver to a small internet brand. I can recall a short while ago a company by the name of Resonant Engineering which was a small internet manufacturer.

I personally love JL Audio, but I didn't have the heart to not give SSA my money... Lovely bunch , small and close relationships that make it more enjoyable. I can get a JL woofer for the price of a SSA but I'm hoping that I will love the SSA as much as I did JL. My woofers were 8yrs old and they only gave out because I put a stronger amp and didn't adjust SSF properly before bumping it cuz I was sooo excited..lol ... Idiot I am, but I love my Icon so far and I'd say you're golden with either company. Both are solid and well made, I'd give SSA the chance to rival the quality of JL any day..... But I'm just cool like that...

I actually prefer the w6v2 to the W7 but that is besides the point. I have worked with JL products and their company a lot and they are top notch ion every aspect. Great products, service etc. From what I've seen here on SSA, SSA does just as well but I've worked with less of their products. I did have the pleasure of helping build and install an Xcon and it was by every means a good subwoofer. Deep powerful low end that blended well with the rest of the audio system and had the ability to get damn loud for a single 12" sub.

Either way you go, I'd be willing to bet that you'll be a happy guy.

I actually prefer the w6v2 to the W7 but that is besides the point. I have worked with JL products and their company a lot and they are top notch ion every aspect. Great products, service etc. From what I've seen here on SSA, SSA does just as well but I've worked with less of their products. I did have the pleasure of helping build and install an Xcon and it was by every means a good subwoofer. Deep powerful low end that blended well with the rest of the audio system and had the ability to get damn loud for a single 12" sub.

Either way you go, I'd be willing to bet that you'll be a happy guy.

We need to fix that.