are Dumax and/or Klippel measurement reports available for the Zcon series? Particularly interested in the 12".

I don't think anyone uses Klippel or Dumax any more. I think everything is FEA.

I knew Dumax isn't that popular anymore, but I don't see how Klippel would be phased out seeing as how finite element analysis is primarily used to design the motor structures. I've never seen a driver "tested" using FEA to plot actual BL/Cms/Le vs position distortion graphs which is why I asked. Of course I could be wrong.

Edited January 10, 201213 yr by Oscar

I could be wrong too, just haven't seen either used in quite some time.

The one Kippel we had access to is now in the hands of Image Dynamics. I love their products, but I am not comfortable sending our products directly to another brand, especially with out Eric Stevens there anymore, for them to test. There is some very expensive machining work done to the Icon/Xcon/Zcon and we want to keep as much protected as we can.

Keep in mind, these machines are very expensive and few and far between.

I see. Do you have any distortion graphs at all that you could present?

Why do you want all this information?

I see. Do you have any distortion graphs at all that you could present?

This is more relevant to the signal being fed to the woofer. It's essentially useless just as the distortion rating for amplifiers.

The one Kippel we had access to is now in the hands of Image Dynamics. I love their products, but I am not comfortable sending our products directly to another brand, especially with out Eric Stevens there anymore, for them to test. There is some very expensive machining work done to the Icon/Xcon/Zcon and we want to keep as much protected as we can.

Keep in mind, these machines are very expensive and few and far between.

The DIYMA Klippel? ID hasn't had that for a while.

But there are also alternatives like Red Rock Acoustics.....though it's presumably very expensive & I would doubt you would really see much (read: any) return on that investment.

My guess would be that Erin (bikinpunk.....the current possessor of the DIYMA Klippel) would test it for you if you sent him one. Issue there is a novice behind the controls potentially skewing results. Nothing against Erin, he's energetic about the Klippel, improving himself and the results on a daily basis and seems to really be the first one since npdang to actually care about benefiting the community with it again. But still a novice.

Why not? What's wrong with comparing speakers on a scientific level? With as many supersubs as there are now a days, it would be nice to see distortion graphs the way that pro-audio companies publicly put on their websites, such as JBL. It's not like asking for proprietary information like internal motor dimensions/gap heights/angles, winding characteristics/etc.

I see. Do you have any distortion graphs at all that you could present?

This is more relevant to the signal being fed to the woofer. It's essentially useless just as the distortion rating for amplifiers.

With all due respect, I disagree. IMHO, speaker companies haven't been focusing on reducing the distortion-producing components just to make their results irrelevant. Yes I listen with my ears too, but with a degree in math and physics I have to say that my brain is already hardwired to thrive on numbers/data to make sense of things. Like it or not, it is how I am.

Edited January 11, 201213 yr by Oscar

I tend to also want to see published data. But I think it is a mute point with a majority of car audio, as most don't publish this, so you don't have references to compare.

This isn't discounting the fact that many manufacturers, many on this site, strive to produce low-distortion, cutting edge products. They are just keeping overhead down at this point at the cost of data to people like me and you...

The one Kippel we had access to is now in the hands of Image Dynamics. I love their products, but I am not comfortable sending our products directly to another brand, especially with out Eric Stevens there anymore, for them to test. There is some very expensive machining work done to the Icon/Xcon/Zcon and we want to keep as much protected as we can.

Keep in mind, these machines are very expensive and few and far between.

The DIYMA Klippel? ID hasn't had that for a while.

But there are also alternatives like Red Rock Acoustics.....though it's presumably very expensive & I would doubt you would really see much (read: any) return on that investment.

My guess would be that Erin (bikinpunk.....the current possessor of the DIYMA Klippel) would test it for you if you sent him one. Issue there is a novice behind the controls potentially skewing results. Nothing against Erin, he's energetic about the Klippel, improving himself and the results on a daily basis and seems to really be the first one since npdang to actually care about benefiting the community with it again. But still a novice.

Yeah, last I heard ID had it, but if it moved on then I am out of date. Quentin sent me a PM about Red Rock, so I will look into them but the Zcon is not really the driver of choice from us that people seem to really care about parameters. When minivanman had it, I was ready to ship him everything, but with the BS other companies were putting on him (from what I gathered, tweaking spec results to their liking), he backed out on doing anymore work with it.

When we get for bore into home audio, I will pay much closer attention to it.

Why not? What's wrong with comparing speakers on a scientific level? With as many supersubs as there are now a days, it would be nice to see distortion graphs the way that pro-audio companies publicly put on their websites, such as JBL. It's not like asking for proprietary information like internal motor dimensions/gap heights/angles, winding characteristics/etc.

I see. Do you have any distortion graphs at all that you could present?

This is more relevant to the signal being fed to the woofer. It's essentially useless just as the distortion rating for amplifiers.

With all due respect, I disagree. IMHO, speaker companies haven't been focusing on reducing the distortion-producing components just to make their results irrelevant. Yes I listen with my ears too, but with a degree in math and physics I have to say that my brain is already hardwired to thrive on numbers/data to make sense of things. Like it or not, it is how I am.

As someone with a physics background, I fully understand the clamoring need for the finite data to work with. That tangible bit of info that you can work with to map ahead of time what you want to do with in your set parameters.

If there is growing demand for more parameters, we will talk with Red Rock Acoustics.

If there is growing demand for more parameters, we will talk with Red Rock Acoustics.

Sounds good. I'm almost positive that I will still pick up a 12" Zcon. After having owned a 12" RE XXX (and been out of car audio for a while), I've scoured for a new "megatron" of ""SQL"" subwoofers that can meet/exceed theoverall performance of the XXX. I have quite a few other subs that I could/do use that I absolutely love for different reasons (JBL WGTi's, OS Cerwin-Vega Strokers), but there something massively appealing about owning a true all-around supersub. After looking at the parameters for the Zcon, it definitely fits the bill.

The gentleman who designed the pre 2005 XXX designed the ZCON.

The gentleman who designed the pre 2005 XXX designed the ZCON.

Are you telling me that Jesus used to work for RE Audio?

The gentleman who designed the pre 2005 XXX designed the ZCON.

Are you telling me that Jesus used to work for RE Audio?

05 XXX motor still a benchmark I use....