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Getting sort of off topic.....but no, running a 2-way active front stage + subwoofer is a 3-way active system. A 3-way active front stage + subwoofer is a 4-way active system. Majority of people are already running their substage "active" by using the amplifier's or headunit's onboard crossover as the filter.

Honestly speaking, I don't give a shit if anyone around me can hear my system or not, why should I care? It's called respect. Obviously you have none. People like you are bad for the hobby.

That's exactly why it shouldn't be used. Well by that logic neither should loud. What's loud to me may not be loud to you. Can you answer me this please, why does it bother you so much how somebody chooses to describe their system, be it loud, sq, spl or "SQL"? If SQ was so cut and dry, there would be no need to have multiple judges at SQ shows, but obviously what sounds good to one guy doesn't sound good to the next. I think there are more things to lose sleep over compared to whether or not somebody is using the SUBJECTIVE term "SQL" properly. Keyword: SUBJECTIVE Stop being thick. The problem is VERY simple. Poster A says, I need a sub and some components I want an SQL system. This gives us NO information to help him as his definition is different than what everyone else would define it as. You can apply this to SQ as well. And even though SPL is NOT subjective it gets screwed up in usage as well. Someone wants a loud setup and says, I want an SPL setup but I won't compete. Obviously to maximize your output you are going to end up with a one note wonder tuned to an area that will suck for music. 99.9% of people who ask for that on a forum don't want it. If a full description of what a poster wants is included then the terms could be used, but since they never add anything of value to a thread we look down upon them being in a thread.

Man, i run an Icon 15 and I love it in a 3.5 cu ft ported box. It sound clear, accurate, and is loud, really loud. It is the first time I feel that I can listen to jazz in my car, not only rap. The Xcon is in the same spot, but is really LOUDER ! I have one on his way : I'm waiting on UPS!!! The Xcon seems to define exactly what you need : punchiness and accuracy !!! You can play it in sealed or ported boxes (don't need to tune so low : 32hz should be good). Go to the ssa section on this forum, you'll find some reviews. Good luck!

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/store/categories/Batteries-%26-Electrical/XS-Power/ right there!

No problem! I thought the Yellow tops were only rated at ~55AH? unless it's a larger sized battery. But for the most part i've only seen the yellow tops around here that are 55AH, look into some Deka Intimidator 9A31 (100 ah)for $187.81 or the XS Power batteries (D2700) 103AH for $299.00. Shizzzon explained to me that the Deka's have a lower float value than the Xs batteries.

I know right? They have a ton of good informational videos. I've learned a lot from them surprisingly. They water it down to a normal persons thought process without leaving out key information.

If i remember right, every ~1,000 watts an additional 70 amps is pulled. that should help!

There's no such thing as a "sound quality" amplifier. THD is a pretty unimportant spec to look at. Any amp worth owning (meaning anything but extreme low end junk) will be capable of operating at a level of distortion that is inaudible with music. Most amps on the market have their power rated at a THD level of equal to or less than 1%, which means there will not be an audible difference between them distortion wise. Many people mistakenly believe that THD is a "lower sounds better" spec, but the truth is that once distortion gets down to a certain level (2% or less) you won't be able to hear a difference with music. So you can ignore it. Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR) is the same way. Any amp worth owning will have a sufficient enough SNR to be audibly indistinguishable. SNR can only even be used as a point of comparison if you know the testing conditions of the measurement. If one amp had SNR rated at 1w of power output, and another amp rated at 100w of power output, then the "rated" SNR of the amplifiers are NOT directly comparable. But regardless, it's a relatively unimportant spec and can generally be ignored. Damping Factor is another spec that can be ignored. Many people incorrectly believe that DF is a "higher is better" spec. The truth however is that once an amplifier has sufficient damping as to not audibly affect the sound, going any higher will not yield any benefit. A damping factor of around 20 is sufficient enough to not cause an audible difference. Just about any amp on the market will have sufficient damping as to not audibly affect the sound. Damping factor thread is here: http://www.soundsolu..._1entry537161 Class A/B does not sound any better than Class D. Class A doesn't sound any better than Class A/B or D. You can not attribute any particular sound characteristics to the "class" of the amplifier, and no one has ever been able to conclusively demonstrate that the "class" of the amplifier affects the sound. What should you look for in an amplifier? Look for an amp that offers the most power output within your budget, has the features you need, the build quality you desire, aesthetics you prefer, fits your space requirements and has a warranty & customer service you can live with. It's that simple.

Please bare in mind that clamp tests are not a very reliable or accurate test method, and not a method that should be used to compare one amplifiers performance to another for daily use applications or to determine the "actual" performance of any single amplifier. If I recall correctly RF claims their amplifiers will still make rated power down to around 12.5V, I believe this is part of the reason why the "birthsheets" show higher power output than rated (birthsheets are @ 14.4V). RF amplifiers are CEA-2006 compliant so they must state power is "rated" at 14.4V, but that doesn't mean they can't design the amplifier to still provide rated power at lower voltage levels. I didnt say anything about this test as being used as the holy grail, he asked what they do around 12 volts and I just posted a link for him to look at. I didnt want to say they do this so I posted what the owner of the company posted as a guide or reference to what their capabilities can be thats all; instead of me answering a question I have no facts on so I gave the OP facts. I understand. I posted my comments so others reading the thread, including the OP, didn't base decisions upon the information contained in the linked thread as the method used is inaccurate and unreliable and it has as of yet to be pointed out. Going forward, when linking to relatively unreliable or inaccurate data in response to a specific question asking for actual data it would be helpful to everyone if you included a short comment in your post indicating the inaccuracy of the provided information. In actuality, the linked thread doesn't answer the OP's question at all, and a clamp test doesn't represent "facts". It's data, unreliable data...that's all.

Please bare in mind that clamp tests are not a very reliable or accurate test method, and not a method that should be used to compare one amplifiers performance to another for daily use applications or to determine the "actual" performance of any single amplifier. If I recall correctly RF claims their amplifiers will still make rated power down to around 12.5V, I believe this is part of the reason why the "birthsheets" show higher power output than rated (birthsheets are @ 14.4V). RF amplifiers are CEA-2006 compliant so they must state power is "rated" at 14.4V, but that doesn't mean they can't design the amplifier to still provide rated power at lower voltage levels.

Sundown is the way to go! Even though AQ has reputable products and good customer service. Sundown is just a better designed product!

Keep in mind part of "sound quality" is accurate reproduction of the material, which includes sound level. It can require a good bit of output to properly reproduce an organ or piano, and having sufficient output capabilities to handle dynamic peaks that occur in well recorded source material is also required. For example, it takes a fair amount of displacement to accurately reproduce the 18hz organ in Planet Kryptonite. "Sound quality" and "loud" go hand in hand as an inability to reproduce the material at realistic levels would be a failure to achieve the initial goal of sound quality. Too many people (not necessarily you, just in general) equate "sound quality" with "quiet". That said, there is a large difference between designing a system with sufficient capabilities to reproduce the source material at realistic levels, and the typical use of the term SQL which is all too often supposed to mean "Hey guys I'd like to be able to hit 145db on music without it sounding like total crap"....which has no semblance of sound quality, hence the problem with the term "Sound Quality Loud".

I very much doubt the Crapfonics shares something with the 400.1. Post some pics to back that up. I'm curious. The price of the components does not determine the voltage rail. It's vise-versa. You have a high voltage rail (which is obtained from the power supply transformers), you need expensive components to work with the higher voltage. And it is not going to determine if you need a very stout electrical system or not. You need power to make power. It can have a 30v rail voltage or a 60v rail voltage, if it makes 600w it uses the same current. On the refurb amp question.... considering the work db-r has done, I would trust him.

no you can NOT get a 1ohm load! please view the link below and book mark it for future reference! and enjoy your holidays! http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/woofer_configurations.asp?Q=2&I=22

if you really dont want to help give me a suggestion then why even bother replying to me The bad thing about it is I gave you the best suggestion, you will get more results from looking through the old threads like this then waiting on people to reply to you.

Please include the method used for setting the gains. I'd also run some test tones and see where the "popping" occurs.

if you really dont want to help give me a suggestion then why even bother replying to me man i get what you are saying %100. maybe you did ask ask question that has been asked and asked over and over, that doesn't require some one to reply to you being a prick.... there is not a rule that says these guys has to reply to every post made. i have read all 80something pages and i didn't reply to %95 of them. if i read something i dont agree with or think is dumd guess what...... i didn't reply! so if you are reading this and dont like it go to the next thread . dont waste your time typing and my time reading!!!! i have heard you say a couple of times what you are looking for and to me it is as simple of a question you can get...... you are looking for suggestions for some good speakers..... like TREO engineering, infinity, mb quart, focal ect, ect, without breaking the bank.. best bang for your buck.

They have the same board as the American Bass VFL 400 but the VFL uses cheaper parts so the rail voltage it lower. The Hifonics can run at .5 ohm all day with a nice fat supplemental battery and chubby Big 3 without running and upgraded alternator. However, you are inclined to run a pair of them. This may require more than the above mentioned current upgrades, seeing as how you will have the potentional current draw of 500A( 250 each amp) you should look at a larger alt as well as larger batteries. You will not be wasting your hard earned dollars on these amps. The newer boards do not get as hot as the 08 series and have up-graded the boards to such a degree, the 08s and the 10s do not share the same heatsinks. Futhermore, the amplifiers efficiency has been increased to such a degree, you can run the newer model of an amplifier of the same specs, (1608 vs 1610) and see the fuse size decrease but the output remain the same. Apply this to the 2610...

Do you think he really needs to tune that low? From what I have been told and seen myself, the HDC3s tuned around 36-38Hz still dig the lows.

187 Series 10 Sealed .5 cubes - 1.0 cubes Ported 1.4 cubes - 2 cubes, 15 - 20 Inches of Port, 28-35 Hz 187 Series 12 Sealed 1.0 cubes - 1.4 cubes Ported 2 cubes - 2.5 cubes, 20 - 30 Inches of Port, 28-35 Hz 187 Series 15 Sealed 1.4 cubes - 2.0 cubes Ported 2.5 cubes - 3.5 cubes, 30 - 45 Inches of Port, 28-35 Hz Lethal Injection Series 10 Sealed .6 cubes - 1.0 cubes Ported .9 cubes - 1.5 cubes, 12 - 25 Inches of Port, 28-35 Hz Average: 1.25 cubes, 18 inches, 28-35 Hz Lethal Injection Series 12 Sealed .8 cubes - 1.4 cubes Ported 1.75 cubes - 2.5 cubes, 25 - 40 Inches of Port, 28-35 Hz Average: 2.00 cubes, 30 inches, 28-35 Hz Lethal Injection Series 15 Sealed 1.5 cubes - 2.0 cubes Ported 3.0 cubes - 4 cubes, 40 - 60 Inches of Port, 28-35 Hz Average: 3.5 cubes, 50 inches, 28-35 Hz Death Row Series 12 Sealed Not Recommended Ported 1.8 cubes - 2.5 cubes, 20 - 48 Inches of Port, 32-37 Hz Average: 2.20 cubes, 32 inches, 32-37 Hz Death Row Series 15 Sealed Not Recommended Ported 2.75 cubes - 4.0 cubes, 36 - 64 Inches of Port, 32-37 Hz Average: 3.25 cubes, 50 inches, 32-37 Hz Death Row Series 18 Sealed Not Recommended Ported 5.0 cubes - 8.0 cubes, 60 - 120 Inches of Port, 32-37 Hz Average: 6.5 cubes, 90 inches, 32-37 Hz Death Penalty Series 12 Sealed Not Recommended Ported 1.8 cubes - 3.0 cubes, 20 - 48 Inches of Port, 32-37 Hz Average: 2.5 cubes, 35 inches, 32-37 Hz Death Penalty Series 15 Sealed Not Recommended Ported 3.0 cubes - 5.0 cubes, 36 - 80 Inches of Port, 32-37 Hz Average: 4.0 cubes, 55 inches, 32-37 Hz Death Penalty Series 18 Sealed Not Recommended Ported 5.0 cubes - 7.5 cubes, 60 - 120 Inches of Port, 32-37 Hz Average: 6.5 cubes, 90 inches, 32-37 Hz Death Penalty Series 21 Sealed Not Recommended Ported 7.5 cubes - 10.0 cubes, 90 - 160 Inches of Port, 32-37 Hz Average: 8.5 cubes, 120 inches, 32-37 Hz Warden Series 12 Sealed Not Recommended Ported 1.8 cubes - 3.0 cubes, 20 - 48 Inches of Port, 32-37 Hz Average: 2.5 cubes, 35 inches, 32-37 Hz Warden Series 15 Sealed Not Recommended Ported 3.0 cubes - 5.0 cubes, 36 - 80 Inches of Port, 32-37 Hz Average: 4.0 cubes, 55 inches, 32-37 Hz Warden Series 18 Sealed Not Recommended Ported 5.0 cubes - 7.5 cubes, 60 - 120 Inches of Port, 32-37 Hz Average: 6.5 cubes, 90 inches, 32-37 Hz Warden Series 21 Sealed Not Recommended Ported 7.5 cubes - 10.0 cubes, 90 - 160 Inches of Port, 32-37 Hz Average: 8.5 cubes, 120 inches, 32-37 Hz

Well its not as stupid as using the term "nooblets" which makes just as much since as mashing acronyms like ""SQL"".