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Rep System Explanation and Guidelines. This is a newer feature to this site. It became active when we did the big software upgrade mid-2009. I did not lay out some rules as I felt this site's member base was capable of handling it like adults. The purpose is to either reward people who are taking the time out to really help the forum, in terms of topics or posts that are beneficial in information, or to give a warning to those posting negative or vastly incorrect information. It is a nice little feature that can be a positive addition to new members, especially when they are looking for something they need, and they find it right here by one of our members, so +1. It is not a popularity contest, it is not a bashing contest, and it is not there to be used as an anonymous attack against someone you don't like or someone that had to correct your incorrect statement. I have stated a couple of times in passing that if it was abused, I will need to turn it off. A few of the moderators have voiced their opinion about turning it off, even the ones who are in the top 15 list on the front page of the forum, as they feel it would be abused. Now this topic is being posted due to two members who will go unnamed at the moment, as I hope they see this as a polite heads up so I don't need to give them a warning on their account, approach them about the problem, or even be forced to go as far as having to remove their account privilege. This is a very respectful site with some of the best and most knowledgeable members in terms of car audio on the net, so please let's keep it that way and not be childish. Guidelines: Don't abuse it Don't use it to attack someone though anonymity Use it when you feel someone has really contributed to the forum in terms of a great topic or post or idea. Use it when you feel someone has grossly mislead the topic or OP in terms of the discussion. Keep it civil Use it in moderation Please abide by those guidelines or we will be forced to give temporary time-outs to those that do, or even go so far as turning off the system. It is quite simple.

Going from 1400w of Sundown power to 2000w of brand-x generic won't yield you any audible gains and will cost you reliability and support. Not worth it; what you are calling an upgrade, I'd call a downgrade.

Found this guide on another forum, and given the slew of recent threads on troubleshooting noise, thought I would post it here. One word of warning is that some HU's and/or processors nowadays have a zero bit mute, which essentially cuts off the output during low signal passages to reduce noise.....so be aware if this is a feature your unit has. Onward to the guide; How can you eliminate alternator whine in a car audio system? If you have alternator whine in a car audio system and want to get rid of it, there is only one sure-fire way to do it. David Navone and Richard Clark from Autosound 2000 in the USA developed the following step-by-step instructions. If you follow the instructions EXACTLY, you are guaranteed to trace and eliminate the noise in your car audio system. Don’t miss a step and don’t assume that something is OK without checking it. Each time you check for noise, you should do it with the engine running at 1500 to 2000 rpm and the headlights on full beam so that the alternator will be charging. The tests with the CD player connected should be done with a ‘zero bit’ track playing and the volume at maximum. Set your CD player to ‘repeat’ if it has that feature. Safety. Make sure when doing noise tests that the parking brake is on and working, and that the vehicle is in neutral or ‘park’. Perform these tests in an area with good ventilation or use an extension hose on the exhaust to route the fumes outside. Step 1. Check the Amplifiers 1a. Unplug the RCA cables from the amplifier/s and mute the signal at the input by using shorting plugs. This will isolate the amplifier from the rest of the car stereo installation. You can make shorting plugs by taking cheap male RCA plugs and soldering the centre and outer terminals together. This shorts out the input of the amplifier/s to ensure that it has zero signal. Has the noise gone? Yes. Go straight to Step 2. Reduce The System. No. Go to 1b. 1b. Disconnect the speakers from the amp and connect a pair of test speakers to it. Make sure the test speakers are not in contact with the car body. The purpose of this step is to ensure proper isolation of the speakers and the speaker leads from the car's chassis. Has the noise gone? Yes. Check speakers, speaker leads and passive crossovers for proper isolation from the car's chassis. Shift passive crossovers to a location away from power cables and the car’s body. No. Go to 1c. 1c. Isolate the amplifier from the chassis of the car. There must not be any electrical contact between the car's chassis and the amplifier, except for the grounding point. Has the noise gone? Yes. Reinstall the amplifier isolated from the chassis of the car. Make sure that the amplifier is grounded in just one point. No. Go to 1d. 1d. Supply the amplifier with an isolated power source, for example an external car battery or a 12-Volt DC power supply. Has the noise gone? Yes. Noise is entering the amplifier via the power supply, try changing the grounding point and add external power supply filtering. Consider changing the amplifier. No. The amplifier has some severe problems, is totally isolated and still noisy. Replace it or have it repaired. That is the end of Step 1. You have now either eliminated the amplifier and speakers as a problem or you have replaced a faulty amplifier. Now you can go on to Step 2. Step 2. Reduce the System. 2a. The amplifier is known to be OK. It is now time to disconnect any signal processors (equaliser, electronic crossover, etc.) and connect the signal from the output of the head unit directly into the input of the amplifier. Has the noise gone? Yes. The noise source must be either one or more of the processors or possibly the signal route. Go to Step 3. ‘Add Signal Processors’. If you didn’t have any signal processors and you are using the signal cable in its normal, installed route then the problem is solved. No. Go to 2b. 2b. Run new signal cables over a new route between the head unit and the amplifier. Has the noise gone? Yes. Permanently route the signal cables in the new route. Go to Step 3. ‘Add Signal Processors’. If you don’t have any signal processors then your problem is solved. No. Go to 2c. 2c. Isolate the case of the head unit from car's chassis. There must not be any electrical contact between the head unit and car chassis except for a single grounding point. Beware of antenna grounds and pullout cases! Has the noise gone? Yes. Reinstall the head unit isolated from the car's chassis and any other metal parts in the dash. Ground the head unit at one point. Go to Step 3. ‘Add Signal Processors’. If you don’t have any signal processors then your problem is solved. No. Go to 2d. 2d. Move the head unit ground to a quieter grounding point. Test a number of points and also try grounding the head unit to the same point as the amplifier. Has the noise gone? Yes. Reinstall the head unit using the quiet grounding point. Go to Step 3. ‘Add Signal Processors’. If you don’t have any signal processors then your problem is solved. No. Go to 2e. 2e. Move the head unit as near to the amplifier as possible. Then connect output of the head unit to the amplifier with the shortest possible RCA cables. Has the noise gone? Yes. Reinstall the head unit one step at a time. Check for noise after each step during the reinstallation. Once you have the head unit installed, noise free go to Step 3. ‘Add Signal Processors’. If you don’t have any signal processors then your problem is solved. No. Go to 2f. 2f. Supply the head unit with an isolated power source, for example an external car battery or a 12 VDC power supply. Make sure that car chassis is not in contact with the head unit. Has the noise gone? Yes. The head unit is sensitive to noise in the supply voltage. Add power supply filtering to the supply voltage for the head unit or use an isolated power supply. You may be better to change the head unit. Once you have a head unit installed noise free, go to Step 3. ‘Add Signal Processors’. If you don’t have any signal processors then your problem is solved. No. There is a serious problem with the head unit. Go to Step 4 'Check the Vehicle' and/or change the head unit. Step 3. Add Signal Processors. At this level the amplifier is known to be good. The car's electrical system is OK and the reinstalled head unit is working fine when connected directly to the amplifier. 3a. Connect one of the Processors back into the signal path. Has the noise gone? Yes. Go to 3a for the next processor. If there are no more processors, the problem is solved. No. Go to 3b. 3b. Run new signal cables over a new route between the Head-unit and processor and between the Processor and the amplifier. Has the noise gone? Yes. Permanently route the cables on the new quiet path. Go to 3a for the next processor. If there are no more processors, the problem is solved. No. Go to 3c. 3c. Isolate the processor from the car's chassis except for a single grounding point. Connect the processor ground to the same grounding point as the head unit. Has the noise gone? Yes. Provide isolation between the Processor and the car's chassis and permanently route the cables on the known quiet path. Go to 3a for the next processor. If there are no more processors, the problem is solved. No. Go to 3d. 3d. Since new cables and re-grounding does not help, it is time to relocate the processor very near the amplifier. Connect the output of the processor to the amplifier with the shortest possible RCA cables. Has the noise gone? Yes. Reinstall the Processor one step at a time. Check for noise after each step in the reinstallation. Be careful when routing the signal cables. Remember that the car's chassis is a conductor. Go to 3a for the next processor. If there are no more processors, the problem is solved. No. Go to 3e. 3e. Power the processor with an isolated power supply. Do not let the processor touch the chassis of the car. Has the noise gone? Yes. The processor’s power supply in not sufficiently isolated from its audio circuitry. Either replace it or consider the permanent installation of an isolated power supply (1:1 DC/DC converter). This type of device provides a permanent power source that is well isolated from the car's chassis. Go to 3a for the next processor. If there are no more processors, the problem is solved. No. Go to 3f. 3f. Physically separate the processor and the isolated power supply from the rest of the system by many metres. Use long signal cables. Has the noise gone? Yes. Something is seriously wrong with either the processor or your install/test procedures. Please repeat this level from the beginning. No. Change Processor -- this one has design problems. Go back to 3a for the new processor. Step 4. Check the Vehicle The suspect car's charging and electrical systems can be checked by using the previously installed sound system in a "known quiet" car. 4a. Connect jumper cables between the batteries of the two vehicles and start the engine of the suspect car. Turn on the headlights on the suspect car and listen to the stereo on the "known quiet" car. Is there now noise in the quiet car’s system? Yes. Have a qualified auto electrician check out the car’s charging system. No. The suspect car's alternator and charging system is now proven to be quiet. The problem must lie in the car stereo installation -- not in the vehicle.

On this day, 5 years ago, we were blessed with the birth of a beautiful young piece of poo, the IHoP! Happy Berfday old friend! :gift: :joshers3: :joshers3:

I would only flip it around if you can get the port and subwoofer firing directly inside the cabin and not blocked by the trunk and cabin seperator and if you plan on properly sealing it so all the waves go directly into the cabin. Just my .02

Bingo and well said !! Being 39 and having had a system or two in my life there were some hard lessons in my youth to learn that. When you keep replacing things over and over no matter the brand there is only one common denominator and that is what you see in the mirror. I have not blown and amp or a speaker since my early 20's. Take care of your purchase and it will take care of you.

is it more sq or spl? install dependent, in a sealed box to spec (messed around with stuffing too) it wasn't loud enough for me on ~500rms. now when i slapped it in a nicely build ported box it sounded much better. stayed accurate and had nice output. i cant compare it to anything in the price range but if you give us your budget, music tastes and goals we can help you pick the right sub.

don't you have the manual? Let me tell you how to do this- NOTE BEFORE CONTINUING- When strapping amps, they rely on each other. If in some scenario one amp goes into protect while the other one does not, it's possible to kill both amps. I've had my own experience in that and it isn't fun. This happened due to a shipping damage internally and there's no way to know if the output section is damaged until you strap them. Once it is strapped, if the output is XTREMELY low, shut it off immediately to prevent damage! Now, onto strapping- Take one amp, set it's switch to MASTER Take the other amp, set it's switch to SLAVE. Now, get your MASTER amp and follow- Run the rcas from head unit to this amp. Take a single rca line and run it from MASTER to SLAVE Now FOLLOW THIS VERY CAREFULLY- Take speaker wire and run it from BOTH negative terminals from the MASTER amp and connect them to the negative terminals on the SLAVE amp. So now u got all negative terminals on both amps connected to each other. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT- The MASTER amp is the Positive terminal amp. The SLAVE amp is the Negative terminal amp. Connect ALL positive leads to the positive terminals on the MASTER amp. Connect ALL negative leads to the positive terminals on the SLAVE amp. Please remember- When strapping amps that are individually 1 ohm stable, you can only connect a coil configuration of no less than 2 ohms nominal to the pair.

while the latter has been discussed, how about shedding some light on too much voltage. It's been know to fry the input section on amps(or at least that's the excuses i've heard) from too much voltage in on the signal. Some of these cheaper amps may have a max input level of only 4v, some even LESS! So what happens when a user hooks up one of these amps to an 8 or 9v preout and cranks his gain on the amp thinkin it's a volume knob? I'm pretty sure sustained use of that will kill the input section. Same scenario as people using 13v line drivers and crankin them things way up and the gain on the amps as well when there's no way it can handle that input. I'm sure it's somewhat hard to do, to kill an amp by doin that, just don't know how long it would take. Of course, hopefully someone should tell by ear that something doesnt sound right since the output sound would sound insanely horrible.

Drop the LPF to 80 or even 60 if your mids can keep up. You will like it better, I bet. That 15 is not a midbass. That box should be fine for the XCON. They do well at the low end of recommended. I had mine in a little over 3 each tuned to 34 or so and they did just fine. I agree with the above, it takes a while to break these suckers in. Mine also sound better and better as time goes on.

Agreed, if a TL tells you you have gained a tenth of a db or even several tenths, you would need the TL to tell you, your ears at normal volume couldn't distinguish that even at low volume never the less at 140+ db.

Finally fixed a problem in the home sub amp. Thought I had a broken trace in the pre-amp board..turns out the stupid chinese build house clamped 2 negative wires but failed to take the insulation off one. Wiggle the cables and the amps stops. Great.

I like that show for some reason, it is hilarious shit happening every episode Dude, all your posts in the ihop were marked -1. Somebody is acting immature. One more and I'll call it out in the off-topic section. This is ridiculous.

Well it's just pi*r^2 * length, which for a 3/8" rod about 20" long is only 2.2 cubic inches. I don't think you'd notice that in the sound, haha. ? 20" = 20 feet? lol that is alot of rod! the max i will need is about 11.75 which is about 0.00075 ^3 lol as for the wood idea as a brace i am worried b/c right now my box is about 6.1~ at bestat about 40hz (not build yet but soon to be) so with wood i fear it would be to much and i would lose out on cubic volume. but will a flat head screw pull though the mdf? keep in mind the head is on a taper so it has a lot of surface area. o well i will keep playing with the idea! 20" = 20 inches 20' = 20 feet

check out all the positives in this thread.

Please list goals, budget and other equipment you have! Pretty vague question to answer!

Please read the thread guidelines in my signature and then ask a question. It will help us to help you much easier.

That would work great...I'd make it look better though

Sorry to burst your bubble guys but we have this thread already. Please repost here.

A few more...

Big 3 Wiring for better voltage which will decrease drops and increase steady voltage at idle and bumping. You dont replace your wire, you can add on to the existing one's but is up to you if you want to replace them (depending on how simplified or complicated your wiring is such as the positive wire). Depending on the factory wires you have go with 4 gauge or bigger, 1/0 AWG is preferred and recommended especially if you have an HO Alternator. You can fuse the wire between battery and alternator if you want to this is also personal preference (some do just to be safe but if your wiring it right and tight you should be fine without it). I also recommend that you do the ground wires first just to make sure you have enough wire, connectors or whatever to finish the job. 1.) Battery's Negative post to Car's Frame. 2.) Alternator Bolt (that attaches the alternator to engine) or Engine Block to Car's Frame 3.) Battery Positive post to Alternator's Positive Terminal. *** I noticed that if you double up the wire on the battery negative to car's frame it does help out on voltage and not recommended at all just sharing my results from adding a second wire.*** For my Big 3 I did mine like this: 1.) I replaced the 4 guage wire that was on my battery's negative post going to the car's frame. I took out the old wire and added two 1/0 AWG wires. Two runs of 1/0 AWG 2.) I replaced the 4 gauge wire that was on my engine block going to the car's frame. I took out the old wire and added one 1/0 AWG wire. Engine Block Car's Frame 3.) I have not did the wire from battery's positive terminal to alternator's positive terminal yet since my main battery is in the trunk (as you can tell in above pictures). I will get around to upgrading this wire, I will not replace this wire at all. I will just simply add on 1/0 AWG wire when I get an HO Alternator but for now it is fine with the 4 gauge factory wiring.

The O-scope is the best way to set your gain but also the most expensive way to set your gain also, since it cost an arm and a leg more than a DMM.

Looks like A+++++ work as usaul

mm..steak sounds fricken amazing I had steak tonite, mmmmmmmmmm good! Ribeye is the best steak to me for some reason, I like them all but prefer a Ribeye.

Any good depends on your goals and listening preferences, give us some info on that and someone should be able to chime in on them and tell you if they fit your needs. I have heard that polk components are good but never heard any myself.

Congrats on a great purchase, cant wait to see the pictures of the install.

Yes it is a problem, a cap wont help you period no matter how nice it is. Your gonna need to get a HO Altenator, a secondary battery or two depending on how you play your system and what HO Alternator you get. Your gonna need to install a voltmeter so you can monitor your voltage to let you know if your electrical is up to par, the Big 3 wiring will need to be done also.

Bastard. After being foggy for 5 consecutive days, it has just been cloudy for the last two. Haven't seen the sun since.......well shit I can't even remember. Sad. Sunny and 70's for that last 5 days , but the ran and cooler weather is coming on Monday.

If this topic is still open then yeah he still has them, paypal [email protected] to make a purchase.

I like that show for some reason, it is hilarious shit happening every episode

No sub needs more than its rms to perform well and give you the output it was intended for.

people on here live by sundown. I dont live by them just prefer them in my install, but Im not bias on them when it comes to others install (it is your money, get what you want).

Hey I pm'd you, I have some already made out of polyurethane plastic that will fit the mli-6.5's that I will sell to you. I wouldnt put wood in my front door due to water getting in there and the wood will get moisture and that wouldnt be good that is why I got mine made of plastic.

Welcome and glad you could join us .

Congrats buddy.

The box is the problem more than likely, what type of box is it in?

I hate it when the green and red + - hide parts of the signature or post...

About time, so lets see if these members actually follow the rules this time but I doubt it since they cant even follow the rules that were given to them when they joined this forum. Keep up the good work SSA. Sig also.

Off to the Census to get a job, wish me luck fellas.

Subs look nice, Ive always wanted some Havocs.

Measuing 3ohms if fine. It simply means the coils are a little less resistive cold, than when they have been playing for a few hours.

i have heard that the higher the voltage on the preout rca is the LOW you set your gain on the amplier, thus meaning the amp has to work a lot less harder. BUT also keep in mind if you EVER measure your voltage at the rca it will ALWAYS be super low. like my h/u is rated at 5volts and i only see around 1.5volts. also something else i have heard is the higher the voltage the better the sound sq will be b/c the higher voltage resists noise... but i am 100% sure on that stuff it is jsut what i have heard. BUT from my own experience going from a 2v to a 6v and then back to 5v from 2v to 6v i noticed a difference then from 6v-5v i didn't hear anything dramatic! so i hope that helps! and i am sure someone will be on here soon to bash what i have said! ;o!

I've heard the higher, the better the quality from the amp is.