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I think Cablguy is trying to say his amps are around 200 watts per channel, 400 total to all 6's and tweets. We know that in normal listening, even if you have 1,000 watts on tap, nowhere near that much is actually being used at any one time for normal listening levels, as it would only be just a few watts. He just has that much in reserve power for musical peaks. To get back on topic, I still stand behind my statement of using a GOOD midbass (or two) with a strong amp in either the kicks or the doors or BOTH to give the OP the volume level he wants from them. Not sure how to mount a pair of horns in his vehicle since it's similar to mine and I have no idea how I could mount a horn on the passenger side without MAJOR surgery. My gut feeling is a pair of capable midbass/midrange drivers paired with a good tweeter or two up high on each side, OR a pair of good midbass drivers on each side with a pair of full-rangers in the a-pillars would meet his needs. For full range drivers I will have to defer a recommendation as I only know what I've read about them. For midbass I would look at Peerless SLS or similar drivers. Ultimately the OP will have to audition individual drivers himself and make the decision on what gives him the sound he's looking for. All we as members of the forum can do is recommend things to him based on our experience. Now, I don't think ANYONE on this forum would deliberately lie in an attempt to mislead someone. I also don't think it's necessary to slam someone every time they type on this forum. Disagreements are bound to happen, but as adults we should be able to solve those differences without all the extra crap that's going on. Sean, I know you know your stuff...I've read your posts for several years now on various forums and you were always helpful and explained things to new people in a manner that everyone could understand. THAT is why I joined this forum. But something has happened to the knowledgeable, conceintious person that was always so helpful before. We ALL were newbs once, it's up to the ones who've been around for awhile to teach the new ones coming up without making them feel stupid. I feel like I can make contributions to this forum, but I don't for fear of being run over. I would like to see the bickering stop. It's not helpful to anyone. I spoke to Cablguy and he's not going to post anymore. Hopefully you two can get the bad blood worked out because it's not helping anyone. To the OP... I'm sorry all this has gone on in your post. I hope that you can look beyond all the bickering and get some good information to help you get what you want from your system. Good luck with your search/build and let us know what you decide. And be sure to post pics!

I never implied he shouldn't be proud, just shouldn't use whatever achievement he has to promote what he has for gear. Instead use technical arguments and everything is fine. You also have nothing to feel responsible for that is bad. You brought someone here who stands a chance to learn a great deal and hopefully can evolve to even find this place to be a home. I was serious when I said I have absolutely no beef with him. When his or anyone's comments are out of line I will call them out, but that surely doesn't mean its personal.

Unfortunately, I didn't have my camera with me, but here are the pics my buddy took. Most are the hot antique cars and a few of the Porsche Panamera. We also saw the Blues Brothers (replica) police car in the parking lot.

Yea agreed for someone who thinks this forum is cool you would think that he would follow the rules and wait until he gets 25 posts before he tries to sell anything. Well anyway I'm sure he will get the ban hammer dropped on him soon.

Looks ok on paper, but really no one can say it is for a fact. You will have some drop, zero drop is asking as bit much. You will just have to try it and keep an eye on the voltage. I will be running XS for my next batteries.

Probably, but you are going over manufacturers recommendations. Not recommended. Why not just set your gain a little lower? That's what that nice little knob is for.

On the second part of your question. A drop in comparison to me can be fair if the box is within the specs suggested for both drivers. But you are also correct that some people do not consider it fair since they may not be in the same alignment. You also have to look at the frequency they peak at. The true comparison would not be in a car where the cabin gain of the car may factor into the spl readings due to the two different drivers peaking at different frequencies. In one persons car on the same power in the same box, the BL might be louder than the BTL. In a different box or a different car, the opposite maybe true. A lower peak frequency may make one seem louder while really the other is louder on a meter. There are a lot of factors when making comparisons. Another subject I hate. The assumption that the driver with rated power handling closest to the amount of power you have is the beat choice drives me insane!! Brian

probably not what your lookin for, but ill share anyway. background probably makes it un unusable as a t-shirt.

I take each box I design on a case by case basis. The estimates work good. I have used less, and I have used more. If you tune at 32 hz and then you play a lot of music at 32 hz, you may hear a little port noise. Depends on the amount of air the driver can sweep and how hard you are driving it. Normally in a car things are getting really loud by the time you really start compressing the port and it is not audible. The ranges suggested perform good vs the amount of volume required for the port. Large ports get really long in small boxes! At the tuning frequency, sound is radiated from the port. If you want the port to operate 100% correctly with no compression or noise, use the formula. Brian

Installing it near the amp partially defeats the purpose. Ideally the higher signal voltage increases the signal to noise ratio of the signal transfer. The noise being induced into your system is independent of the voltage of the signal. It will stay the same regardless. So as you increase the voltage of the signal the level of the noise will be smaller in proportion to the signal, which increases the signal to noise ratio. If you place it near the amp, then the signal traveling the farthest (and typically noisiest) distance is the "original" voltage level from your headunit, and you aren't increasing the signal voltage until after the noise has already entered the signal (which means the voltage level of the noise will also be increased since it's now part of the signal at this point). The RF-BLD also features balanced differential outputs which aids in noise reduction. Again, if you are using this feature then having the unit placed near the amp would defeat the purpose. You would want this placed on the source side of the signal transfer so that any noise induced during the signal transfer is able to be handled by the balanced system. If you put the system in the trunk, then the signal entering the unit already has the noise included with the signal. Putting the unit in the trunk would be a little like putting a condom on after you've had sex. That said.....why do you think you need one? greatest analogy ever

Installing it near the amp partially defeats the purpose. Ideally the higher signal voltage increases the signal to noise ratio of the signal transfer. The noise being induced into your system is independent of the voltage of the signal. It will stay the same regardless. So as you increase the voltage of the signal the level of the noise will be smaller in proportion to the signal, which increases the signal to noise ratio. If you place it near the amp, then the signal traveling the farthest (and typically noisiest) distance is the "original" voltage level from your headunit, and you aren't increasing the signal voltage until after the noise has already entered the signal (which means the voltage level of the noise will also be increased since it's now part of the signal at this point). The RF-BLD also features balanced differential outputs which aids in noise reduction. Again, if you are using this feature then having the unit placed near the amp would defeat the purpose. You would want this placed on the source side of the signal transfer so that any noise induced during the signal transfer is able to be handled by the balanced system. If you put the system in the trunk, then the signal entering the unit already has the noise included with the signal. Putting the unit in the trunk would be a little like putting a condom on after you've had sex. That said.....why do you think you need one?

I was the one who did the calculations that it is 29in^2 per port area, just to see its relationship compared to the "general rule of thumb" which we were supposed to go by. I feel as though companies like Fi shouldnt put that on there website (even if it is a starting point) then others get bashed for something they thought was right from start including me (that is misleading the consumer). Instead for each driver put how much port area is required and stop steering the consumer in the wrong place. Id rather they give the formula so I can do the math then be bashed for information I thought was to be followed since the MANUFACTURER said to follow it. It is to many he say or she say rules in car audio and healthy debates like these help weave out all the bs. I appreciate Duran for passing the formula on and will be using from here on it then the in^2/cube rule we see on a daily basis. I was not bashing anyone. I honestly did not look to see who posted it. Just making a point, since this thread turned into bashing the only person who really knew what they were talking about. Those guide lines work, they just are not hard rules. Learn as you go man. No harm done.

You put waaayyyy too much emphasis on competition. I read a joke (I think it was a joke?) once about two world renowned poets in heaven arguing about which of them was the best poet who had ever lived. God intervened by explaining that neither of them was the best poet that had ever lived....the best poet that ever lived was a man no one had ever heard of, who kept every poem he had ever written hid in a chest at the foot of his bed. The moral of the story relates here.....

You may want to check out where the latest RF and Zapco amps are now built! Iirmc RF has moved all if not all production overseas. Zapco still makes the Competition series amplifiers in the USA everything else off shore.

my 6 1/2s and tweets have about 400 watts on them (extremely modified amplifier). I also have 5 batteries and a 200 amp alt. I wish you could hear my truck. It gets very loud. I run it in street beat classes to. ultimate autosound did a tahoe with 4 rd audio tweets in each a pillars, 6 1/2 in the kicks, 2 6 1/2 in the doors on a 4 channel rd audioamp. It was very loud. 4 18s in the rear. sorry bout that.

Stealth, I hope your home is enveloped by a volcano, you have proven time, and time again that your insight is generally false. Instead of flaming someone you need to be able to express why you think something over someone else belief.

More designs to come!

Where did you get that number? And OP, if you want to save space and be able to do daily and competition easier, Use aero ports. Get some 6" aeros and you can just switch them out when you go to competition with your car's peak tuning. You won't do as well if your peak no where near your daily tune.

no dont listen to him. if your going for daily with a little more output, you could go 35-38hz with 15-17 per and you should be fine. that should give you a good star off point. then you can redo the box to your liking. also you should figure out what freq your car likes, or simply do 2 boxes. 1 daily, 1 comp.

I've tried to explain everything about my truck. You are correct. Installation is 50% and equipment is 50%. That myth about rear speakers is something like you said in another post about 12s not sounding better than 15s, or 6 1/2s can't be made to sound better than 8s. Anything is possible sir if the installation is correct. Installation and Equipment can not work without the other. The guys that helped me are proven to be the best in the competition world. Mulitple time world champions. They know what it takes to win. We've proven that. Impious made alot of sence in his post and I very much thanked him for that. That man knows his shit !!! Alot of people want good sound. ALOT of people want to be the best in car audio. When you pull up into a parking lot, you want to have the baddest ass system there !!! I only give suggestions that I use myself to be the best in my game. They are teaching me what it takes to win. Compared to amps today, Linear Power is not expensive. Just very good electronics and have a VERY long use life. As for BluesCarAudio, well, the car audio world is in for a shock.

Wow M5, I wouldn't have an attitude if you would quit talking negative all the time. I do have a few questions for you though, Do you compete? Have you ever been to a World Finals event?? Have you ever been on stage with some of the best competitors in the world? Do you know what its like for your "under $4000.00" systen actually beat some of the best competitors in the business? Has a person on your team set a World Record number in spl competition? Can your system play notes under 25 htz? I can answer yes to all of these questions. Can you?

Please keep in mind M5 that I am a competitor this year (truck broke or not). If I give off all my secrets to this truck. I might get my butt handed to me in competition. I would like to win a few more times. According to my scoresheet from last years world finals, My front stage was spot on the way it should be. That part will not be changed. I'm just trying to score better points on installation. My whole concept to this truck is to be very competitive with NO processors and minimal sound dampining. It feels very good to beat out those EXPENSIVE systems.

Not a problem, switch the initials around (JC).

nothing fancy

From the pictures they appear to be aimed fairly off axis to the listeners, which is not uncommon as this allows the listening axis of both seats to be closer to equally off axis to both speakers which in turn helps the frequency response have less deviation between the L & R speakers at the listening position. If you look at pictures of some of the big name competitors, their mids are hardly ever aimed at the listener. They are usually aimed far off axis, many times aimed straight across the vehicle at each other. Vertical (height) ques generally begin to occur when the wavelength of the soundwave is equal to the height of your ear. Generally this will be in the 3khz - 4khz range......But if ya got big honkin' ears you may start to recognize height ques at a much lower frequency The potential problem with separating the mid from the tweeter by a great distance (a distance greater than the wavelength of the crossover frequency) is coherence and frequency response at and near the crossover point. It can be overcome, but something that needs considered. In midbass frequencies the wavelength of the sound wave is typically longer than the diameter of the cone (for the speaker sizes we typically use in car audio) so the on- and off-axis response of the driver is not going to deviate from each other. But as frequency increases and the wavelength becomes smaller than the diameter of the cone (as may happen in the midrange frequencies) the soundwaves generated by the cone will begin to destructively interfere with each other and the off-axis begin to roll off and deviate from the on axis response. Think of the speaker as an array of tiny point sources. When the wavelength of the soundwave is less than the distance between the sources, they can destructively interfere. Where this problem occurs for a driver playing midrange depends on the diameter of the driver. The effect is referred to as "beaming". This is one of the reasons I mentioned above that many competitors intentionally aim speakers off axis to both listeners. If you aim a speaker on axis to one listener, it will inherently be off axis to the other listener. Since in the midrange frequencies beaming usually begins to occur, the on and off axis response is going be different. One thing you generally want in a good stereo setup is for the frequency response at the listening position to be the same from both the left and right speakers. And if you want a stereo to sound equally as good from both the driver and passenger seats, then the frequency response at both seats also needs to be the same. So if you aim the speakers on axis to the driver, the passenger will be off axis and hence the frequency response will likely be different. If you aim the speakers at some arbitrary point between the two seats, then you will be more off axis to the near side speaker than you will be the opposing speaker which will create a difference in frequency response between the left and right speakers. But if you aim them close to equally off axis to both listeners, then the response at both listening positions and from both speakers will be closer to the same. Some competitors start by aiming the speakers either at the opposing speaker or at the back of the headunit, then make their adjustments from there. I tried to help. Sorry, I didn't read this paragraph before asking about the crossover

Subwoofer Wiring It is spelled "they're or they are" ...

Go to www.the12volt.com and click on the subwoofer wiring diagram if you want to play with ohm loads of different voice coil Yes you can:

Yeah

Just set it with a DMM @ 34.64 volts to keep it at 600 watts, dont try to push the amp harder than it can be pushed and you should be fine until you get another amp if need be. I had 600-800 watts on 3 -12" Kicker CVX's (2250 rms total) and it did fine and sounded great.

This is great advise. Since I rebuilt the box, lots of things changed. I can really drive the subs now. My elecrical system is being upgraded with the addition of a second Iraggi 260Amp Alt. The big 3 has been done since the beginning. After the second alt addition, I am adding two more Batcap 4000's that I have. I guess I'll let the voltage tell me what I can do because placing a 3rd alt in an E-350 v-8 PSD van is almost impossible. there simply is no room.. Thanks, JR

Yup, That will teach me to skim on the rest of the system. Big difference. Am thinking of adding another amp and adding two more mids and highs tomorrow. Hope to fine tune it. This stuff is in an E-350 Van so I have a big area to fill.

I admitted that just so you would Please get out of my build log. You havent give me any suggestions. just bla,bla,bla. If you think you are better than me ... That challenge is still open.

Please take a look at my build log. Your truck should be close to mine. I use A-pillars and kick pannels. I think you would be pleased with the set up I use. Ceck it out and let me know what you think. This setup in proven for Sound Quality. You can tell by the win status on my signature. ...

Making that recommendation doesn't tell him the exact minimum amount of port area needed to avoid port noise. so you are telling me that he will have port noise with 15-17 per and it will be audible???? are you a dumbass, or just a dumbass. my recommendation is not telling him the minimum amount or port area needed without port noise, its giving him a proper starting point for a daily system with lots of output. While it will reduce port noise your recommendation will make mechanical failure more likely. My estimation gives the OP the minimum amount of port area needed to reduce the likelihood of port noise as well as reduce the chances of mechanical failure. You recommending 15-17 proves your stupidity and your lack of understanding of enclosure design. Stop making recommendations as all of them have been proven incorrect. get real dumbass, no one is going to use 29sq inches per for a daily system. what a retard. stop making like you know. and when were my recommendations proven wrong? or are you talking outta your ass.

yeah brandon daily whatever you do, do not listen to durans dumbass

um no i think you build the box then pick the sub... lol no shit.

all in all, brandon daily go with his idea and sue his ass for the cost of the wood you wasted. lol use winisd and see.

no, its not just a port thread. maybe to you. its about helping an SSA member when he needs it.

try a z15 from sundown sealed. or some SSAs sealed. I recently heard an alumpro setup i really liked. it was sealed as well.

Sounds great guys ... M5, Our conversation is over sir. Thank you for your time.