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Intro: Today I will be testing 14 different brands of 1/0 power wire. The brands I will be testing are brands that I have found in builds on this forum and have been recommendation to test by other members on the SSA forum. Lately on the forums I have been noticing people asking a variety of question in regards to 1/0 wiring as in to flex and a comparison of different brands of wires and how thick each wire is in comparison to other brands. So I thought it was time for side by side wire comparison of different brands of wire that I have commonly found in use or have been suggested to me by others. A little background about myself I have done about five different builds on my old 95 grand-am, each new build included a new level of difficulty on the install and build. From a simple sealed box, all the way up to a 6th order tapered horn box, along with fibreglasses door panels to accommodate two pairs of components, also I have done a fair amount of sound deadening. I have worked in the Mould trade at varies shops for the past 4 years now. At a Mould shop we build Mould to be used in plastic injection of primarily, but not limited to, car parts. We have also built a number of tools for rubber maid, air plane companies, small toys, along with plastic forks and spoons also. In the excel chart included, near the end, those costs were a bit higher than usual as I didn't purchase the wire in bulk but I purchased it from a 3ft stand. Now with that being said as you purchase more wire the cost per foot will decrease. In all the pictures of the wires flexing I used a beat up Kent State pen to use as a reference so that each wire will be compared to the pen and the pen is mainly there to show as a reference. Worthy of mention, if you pay close attention to how the wire lays, after the knot, you can easily see which wires are a bit tougher to use. For example of this notice the Street Wires and the Q-Power wire, notice how the Street Wires lays are after the knot, they nearly fall parallel with each other, while as the Q-Power flexes out nearly as long as the pen. I will be using a dial vernier(caliper) to do take all my measurements from the under listed wiring, to compare OD of the over wire, and the OD of the conductor , along with how thick each jacket is. I have also included percentages as those are a bit easier to understand. from left to right! (or in the first pic right to left) EFX Scosche Monster Sound Quest Xscorpion Rockford Fosgate Tsunami KNU KCA KNU Kolossus Stinger HPM Raptor Cadence Q-Power Street Wires Welding Supplies (provided by Sir-Lancelot not tested yet) here is how I got my dimensions, I was using Raptor Wiring in this picture. as you can see I used a vernier to get the Outside Diameter (OD) and the CON OD (Conductor Outside Diameter), I then subtracted those to find the Jacket thickness, then I found how much of the OD was the Jacket and how much of the wire was the conductor. Subjective Review: Please note Monster cable and how they have a piece of plastic running though center! With this center piece of plastic in the wire it makes it more difficult to bend and the center piece was added to the jacket as it isn't conductor and it wasn't helping the conductor . These wires will all get a under average, average or above average rating based on three different factors, such as conductor percentage(the average being 63% of the wires I tested) bend-ability and cost(average cost being $3.6 per foot of the wires I tested). So for example if a wire is bendable, cost is good, and the conductor percentage is over 63% the wire will get an above average rating, and if the wire is bendable, but the cost is higher, and the conductor percentage is under 63% the wire will get a under average rating. Knowing the jacket thickness would help show us why some wires are harder to bend then others, but the bend-ability will also depend on how stiff the jacket is. When doing the bend tests in the below pictures I tried to be fair and apply the same amount of force to each wire when I was bending and knotting them. ALSO very important in this part of the review, it is very subjective and should be treated as such and taken as such. 1. EFX Scosche, this wire I would consider to be an average in bend-ability and cost was on the higher side and the conductor OD was over the average 63%. 2. Monster, this wire I would consider to be the worst of all for bend-ability and the cost was on also on the higher end and the OD was the greatest of all the wires compared today most likely due to the center core piece. 3. Sound Quest, this wire I would consider to be an under-average wire due to the lack of bend-ability as you can see how the knot is so big also the conductor OD undersized and the cost was higher. 4. Xscorpion, this wire was one of my favourite wires to use but it will get an average rating due to its price tag per foot but its bend-ability was great and its conductor OD was under the average of 63%. 5. Rockford Fosgate, this was again my most favourite wire to use as its bend-ability was amazing, and the conductor OD is the third highest, the only negative this wire has is its price tag. another upside to this wire is the strands are Pure-Crystal Oxygen Free wire, notice it has a silvery colour to it and it looks 6. Tsunami, this wire has bend-ability in its corner as bending this wire was smooth and required very little effort, but this wire gets and under average rating because of its price and under average conductor percentage. 7. KNU KCA, this wire I am not 100% sure on how to rate it because for one it is CCA, its flex is off the wall, the conductor OD percentage was the highest of all the wires tested, and it was one of the cheapest wire I tested. SO technically it could get all 3 points, but the wire been CCA would that be considered a negative make this wire just average? 8. KNU Kolossus, this wire is the one brand of wire I have used in all my builds to date and I like it second to the RF wiring. The Kolossus wiring has one of the best flexibility out there and the only negative it has is the price which is over the $3.6 per foot. 9. Stinger HPM, yes this is the legendary pinnacle of wiring out there the HPM wiring from stinger but due to my research I would give it a under average rating because the price was very high, and the conductor diameter is less than the average percentage point and the flex of this wire was the only highlight of this wiring. 10. Raptor, this wire yields a average rating as this wire has the flex, has the price factor but the conductor OD is under the average percentage by a good 10%. 11. Cadence, this wire gets a above average rating as it has the flex, the conductor OD is over the average conductor plus the cost of this wire is the second cheapest as it rounds out to $2 per foot. 12. Q-Power, this wire will get a under average rating as per my standards of wire as the flex wasn't quite up to snuff, and the conductor percentage wasn't there and also this wire had the smallest overall OD of all the brands, the only positive for this wire was the price tag! 13. Street Wires, and lastly this wire gets an average rating as it has the flex, and the conductor percentage but it doesn't have the price factor. 14. Welding Supplies coming very soon! With all the above being said I would like to sum it all up in another excel table. As you can see half the wire brands were able to make it past my grading scale as 7/13= 53.8% passed! So basically in my opinion I would recommend the Cadence wiring based off of my subjective review of the wires as stated previously above. If you want to go OFC or the KNU KCA if you want to go CCA! and another close runner up I would like to recommend is Rockford Fosgate or KNU Kolossus! My recommendations have been based on my results and my person use of the above mentioned wire. Based on these sites as references each site basically says the conductor OD should be about 0.32 inches, and as we can all see all the wires tested are over that diameter so all the wires should have gotten a +1 for that but my review was based on wires vs wires not the standards but we can use the standards as a good reference to base everything off of! http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_5/chpt_3/1.html http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge Not So Subjective: The reason why the above is a bit suggestive is because with this method you can't account for the individual strand size, count and construction of how the copper was packed into the jacket, which could make the conductor OD a bit smaller due to packing. So to help eliminate this issue a bit I picked up a nice tobacco scale and set it to Oz. That way I would be able to measure accurately the amount of copper which is in each wire brand. Also keep in mind that the KNU KCA and Q-Power is CCA strands. As you can see in the below pictures I cut the copper out of the jackets and placed it on the scale to get a reading on the scale. The first pic is of EFX Scosche and the second picture is of Monster. From there I also measured the diameter in inches of an individual strand of copper. As you can see in the pic this strand is a good 0.005" OD, and keeping in mind a piece of hair is about 0.003" thick. From there I took a bunch of strands and placed them on the scale to achieve a reading of 0.01 Oz. Once I got that reading I counted all the stands. On average there was about 25 strands but for some it was a good 50 strands. So I took 0.01 divided by the number of strands to get the weight of each individual strand then divided that by the overall weight of the overall total weight to get a potential amount of strands per brand. As you can see that number is close in some cases and is far off in others. So then I thought I could compare that number to the amount of potential strands by using the cross sectional areas of the strands vs. the overall CON OD. But as you can see those two numbers didn't like each other very much and finding the amount of strands was a bit tricky. So take the amount of strands at face value which isn't very much and let me know what you think. Also if you notice in the last pick I also found how much money I can potential get from a scrap yard if I turn all the strands in for some cash. I based my copper price off of June 1st price of copper per pound. As you can see on that day copper was selling for about 4.10$ per pound. So I took all my Oz and summed them up then divided by 16 (16oz = 1lb). and all the extra hallow jackets! I took a look on a few other sites to see how much copper should be found in each run of 1/0 wire, here are the two sites I used: http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_5/chpt_3/1.html http://www.engineersedge.com/copper_wire.htm on each site it says 316-327lbs per 1000ft so I took an average number of: 320lbs/1000feet= 0.32lbs/foot 0.32lbs/foot/12=0.026lb/inch 0.026lb/inch converted to Oz= 0.416Oz/inch 0.416Oz*6inch=2.496oz/6inch So as you can see only three different brands of wire were able to meet and or surpass that rating. Part of why the other wires failed to meet that rating could be due to the tolerance of the scales being used or maybe the number given could be the copper plus the jacket, or even the number could have been for a solid core rather then strands, and due to being in strands there could be a slight variation in weights. For the most part the wires that are close to the 2.49oz mark are most likely close enough for government work. But with that being said the cables that are way off it would tell someone to steer clear of that wire. If anyone gets a hold of the DC power wiring or Shoc audio wiring, and has an extra's foot or so laying around please let me know as I would like to test it out! I hope you guys have enjoyed this post, and I hope it makes your life a bit easier to pick a brand of wire! If you have any questions please post them or p/m me and if you need some big 3 wiring let me know! I would like to say thank you to Aaron(denim), Brad(Impious) and Mike(95Honda) for their help in editing this with me and helping me bring out what needed to be said and other points I missed. Kenneth

Meh. I'd rather have an oil pressure gauge and a few other gauges first. And just like oil pressure "should" always be in range when your car is setup right, your voltage should be as well when you build a system otherwise you should fix that problem. Well I dunno, maybe everyone can't afford to do everything perfect the first time? He has a plan. What's so wrong about having a voltage meter? I mean if we're thinking like that then you know your engine is in pretty good shape right? Well then just go ahead and disconnect all of your gauges then because you know it's done right correct? So just like you said you shouldn't have to monitor it right? There's nothing at all wrong with watching your voltage. Every proffesional setup has a meter no matter what they have invested because it's a good idea, plain and simple. In the end he's going to get his setup done correctly and then he can sit back and watch his voltage stay nice and steady with a smile.

So... how about a beefy 6.5" with about 12mm one-way excursion and flat response to around 5000 Hz ? Would you guys like that ?

No, a full size HLCD can typically play down to 800hz or so. Finding a mid to play up to 800hz and down to the subs shouldn't be problem. So you'll just need the horns and one set of mids. Well, a couple things. For one you would need to make sure it extends high enough cleanly to mate with the horn. Second, when looking at T/S specs don't get caught up entirely on efficiency. There are trade-offs involved. You would want to look for something with a reasonable Fs, Qts, Vas and Xmax. If you find something with too high of an Fs, too low of a Qts, and too large of a Vas (for your space) you're going to end up with a driver that, in car door, is going to end up being -10db down @ 80hz......but the sensitivity will look outstanding. So it needs to be a trade-off between a useable Fs/Qts/Vas and sensitivity. I hate recommending this as I know absolutely nothing about them; but you might talk to Sundown about the 10" mids they just released. The reason I hate to recommend it is because I know literally nothing about them performance wise and I despise recommending something I know absolutely nothing about.....but in this instance it may be something for you to research as Jacob claims these are basically the types of installs he designed them for. For that type of setup it would be the only way to do it. I would honestly look at two separate amps due to the different power requirements. I would do a smaller ~100 watt per channel @ 4ohm 2-channel amp for the horns (since they are 8ohm, that's around 50w to the horns) and then the most power you can find for the mids. Personally I'm a power freak, so I would look for something that can support ~600w minimum per channel @ 4ohm which would give you around 300w @ 8ohm as most pro audio style are 8ohm (most likely scenario is either bridging a high powered 4-channel amp down to two channels, or two separate 2-channel amps with one bridged to each mid). If you wanted a 1-amp solution, the Zed Leviathan would be darn near perfect. Probably talking about the MiniDSP. It's a cool little piece for sure, but it's not nearly as plug-n-play as specifically designed car audio processors. There is a lot of talk about them on DIYMA, here's a review thread on the MiniDSP. I don't know a ton about all of it's kinks; you may need 2 of the 4-channels if you want to include your subs in the processing since the processor is only 4-channel output (and the 8-channel model has some drawbacks compared to just using two 4-channels). By the time you get either two 4-channels or the 8-channel plus all of the necessary hardware, you are up in the same price range as used car-audio specific processors. I'm not sure if there's a time lag in the processing, so you might be required to run the subs through the same processor to keep everything in-sync.....but that might be addressed either on the site or in the review thread. LOL.....ID's site is a long story. Those look like the CD1Pro's.....good horns, would work for your goals more than likely. The next model up are the CD2's which can be found used for less. IIRC the CD1's extended a little better on the top end but the CD2's were a little more sensitive and had a little better sounding midrange but didn't do as good above 15khz. The newer CD Ultra's are supposed to be a good mix of the two but pricier since they are newer. Stay away from any CD1e unless they are the new v3 version. The v1 & v2 versions of the CD1e were piezo drivers; not as sensitive, not nearly as good sounding. Or if you wanted you could cook your own. Find a used set of the full size bodies and then buy your own compression drivers. The CD2 Neo's were basically B&C DE500 compression drivers, which you can buy from partsexpress. Radian, B&C and BMS all make good drivers you could mate with the full size horn bodies. I'll say it again though. Tuning this setup is going to require some knowledge and a decent ear. If you don't feel you have the capabiltiies then pursue a different route. A few passive component sets stand a better chance at sounding good than a poorly setup and tuned extreme system. Implementation and tuning is going to make or break the end result.

well that doesn't make any sense how did Dr. Emmett Brown (from the back to the future series) only use 1 flux and still travel back and forth in time... it must have been the plutonium! and even his flux made like 1.2 gigawatts of power! (rms lol) lol.. yea 2 questions about that... What size wire was he using in his car? 5000/0 wire? Or did it step up the voltage to 1,000,000V? Hmm... wonder what kind of protection that wire had? ya i don't know maybe 4/0 bigger! nice 0:35seconds into this clip the wire he is holding onto lol! then near the end when the car runs into the wire!

here is the completed thread! ADMIN please lock this thread!

HLCD (horn loaded compression drivers) are vastly superior to "Super tweeters" or "Bullet tweeters" in every regard, with the exception of cost. Much better bandwidth, much better dispersion patten, much better overall performance characteristics. Why all of the SPL types use super tweeters is beyond me, other than the fact you can get super tweeters for $40 a pop at places like partsexpress whereas a good set of car audio oriented HLCDs are anywhere from $200 used to $700 new. The reason both types of speakers are used is because of their efficiency. Most have a sensitivity of 105db or more, which means they get very loud with not a whole lot of power. The average HLCD, for example, can get loud enough to literally deafen you with about 50w of input if you sat in the car for any extended period of time. At average listening levels (average to most people, not to you SPL types ), you'll be using less than a watt to power them. If I were doing a loud SPL type install where they primary goal was loud clear output, I would do a set of horns under the dash and the largest mids I could physically fit in the front doors or kickpanels, ideally 10"-12" assuming they had the ideal response. Good thing about horns is the upper end models can handle an xover point as low as 800hz, so the mid doesn't need to extend up very high (relatively speaking). A lot of high quality 10"-12" pro audio mids will handle an 800hz crossover point. Properly tuned and installed, this type of setup would not only be able to get deafeningly loud but also sound incredibly good at lower more "normal" listening levels. With this type of setup you wouldn't need anything in the rear doors unless you wanted them just for showing off at shows. Processing and tuning would be crucial though. A lot of the SPL'ers go crazy with a bunch of super tweeters and a dozen mids. Sure, it might look interesting when showing off but acoustically it makes zero sense.

I would say a company that has held payment for months and months and months and months and made promises and promises and promises and promises but no product has actually been provided and recently information is not very forthcoming is accomplishing the task of ruining their own reputation all by themself. Put yourself in the buyers shoes. Rather than call them douchebags, I'd say they've been SIGNIFICANTLY more patient and respectful than I would have been if I were in the same situation. And contrary to the way most of these situations have gone, almost all of the buyers have been very respectful in their requests for information from Troy in this thread. Though their frustration is understandably increasing the longer this thread runs and the more time goes by with no updates or information. I really fail to see how posting their situation and requesting an update on the situation on his official public forum (requests that have gone unanswered, mind you) makes them douchebags or them being the ones ruining a companies reputation. There's only one person who can ruin Troy's reputation; that would be Troy himself. A company's reputation doesn't hang on whether or not they have issues, as almost all companies will at some point, but rather how they handle themselves during the issues that do arise. And that is all on Troy.

Mines a 6g, and that's what you got pictured. So I guess we do have the same style alternator. I will be trying this over the weekend.

I can't figure out where to put the diode.. I've read the post 10 times, still I don't get in dummy terms where to put it. Lol.

My anology wasn't perfect but it got the point across. Who said it has the same results? Just because voltage change doesn't mean its the same. This way is causing the Alt to actually produce current without needing it. I'm not sure exactly how the MLA works, but nobody can say its the same without really knowing. But I could see a problem with batteries becoming over charged with this way. I'm not downing this way, or praising MLA. Just saying.

Good times. Like Aaron, I've had my hands on both the Audio Technix product and Damplifier/Damplifier Pro. The adhesives are VERY different. The widely thrown around assertion that AT and Damplifier are the same comes from some cherry picked results published by the owner of AT purporting to show very similar performance. There's no way to know what any of this really means since he chose not to release the full report. Nothing on when and where he got the sample of Damplifier, etc. Testing a competitor's product introduces all sorts of variables - intentional or not. "Results" like these should be rejected and not accepted as proof of anything. The ethics behind this move are troubling to me. This is the same guy who tore chunks of adhesive off of some RAAMmat BXT II, posted photos and said he wouldn't trust it in his car. There are reasons manufacturers test each others products and there are reasons they don't make the results public. Understand that the claim that they are the same thing is contradicted by the evidence presented to support the claim. One is a 40 mil product, the other 60 mils. If the published results are correct, the proper claim would be that the two products performed similarly in the test. The fact that it took different thicknesses to achieve that level of performance is absolute proof that they aren't the same. A point that gets missed on all of the excitement is that it is possible to create a vibration damper that performs well in the short term only. With Second Skin, you know it is a product that has been in use for years, under every imaginable condition and has stood the test of time. It may be tempting to believe that this is going to be true for every product and the only difference is the markup each vendor applies to their product. I promise you this isn't true. Manufacturing a reliable product costs a lot more. The point of this tirade is that "they are the same" is being actively promoted by AT and repeated by people who aren't willing or interested enough to look at the proposition fairly. Go to the Web site. The Meta title is: "Sound Deadener Better Than Dynamat". This is demonstrably false by every relevant metric. Look at the company forums and ask yourself if Second Skin would allow the kind of statements that AT allows about Second Skin to be made on a Second Skin forum about AT. I'd be shocked. A poster on one of the AT forums stated that AT was better than SDS CLD Tiles by a long shot. Did the owner come back with something like: "They're both good products intended to be used differently" or anything like that? Of course not. His response was: "I'm going to make this a sticky!". I obviously prefer my product, but I wouldn't hesitate to use products from Second Skin, Dynamic Control or Cascade. All very good products. All sold by companies that are secure enough in the quality of what they are selling and familiar enough with how they should be used to conduct themselves in a professional and respectful manner.

Did you read ANY of the above posts? That's a dumb question, you know he can't comprehend. Well at least from what I've seen. Perhaps he can read, but comprehension is not one of his strong suits.

Um, no. I have seen and held both, quality does not compare. It is foolish to think other wise.

Meh. I'd rather have an oil pressure gauge and a few other gauges first. And just like oil pressure "should" always be in range when your car is setup right, your voltage should be as well when you build a system otherwise you should fix that problem.

it just seems like he's under cutting you and it looks alot like the e8 with a bigger motor ... and ? Noooob. You act like you know this industry well. Care to enlighten us even more? I haven't even seen the Skar sub, but if its cheaper, their is a reason why. But I'm sure you already know this, I'm surprised nobody is knocking down your door trying to get you to work for them. all i know is what i read you should try it sometime.kevin put it up this am you would think you would of checked it out before talking ish but thanx for your input. dude i got 1 sa 8 and i love it you want to hate be my guest. oh yea all i own is chevys so hate on that too. Are you retarded? Where in my post did you get I was hating on you? I can't figure out why people say others are hating on them but nothing of the sort is said. I'm not jealous of you or down what you have because I want it because that is really what "hating" means. So why would you think I am? Next you randomly state what you own, like anybody really cares. If your dieing to be hated on, this is the wrong place. That's the only reason I could see why you would bring it up. I mean seriously. So, I'll have this again... Noob.

it just seems like he's under cutting you and it looks alot like the e8 with a bigger motor ... and ? Noooob. You act like you know this industry well. Care to enlightin us even more? I haven't even seen the Skar sub, but if its cheaper, their is a reason why. But I'm sure you already know this, I'm surprised nobody is knocking down your door trying to get you to work for them.

Did you read ANY of the above posts? That's a dumb question, you know he can't read. Well at least from what I've seen. lolz you gots no one else to pick on but me =[ what a shame im gona fuck your ass up at world finals man

Did you read ANY of the above posts? That's a dumb question, you know he can't read. Well at least from what I've seen. lolz you gots no one else to pick on but me =[ what a shame im gona fuck your ass up at world finals man If you didn't make ignorance post, I wouldn't have any reason to say anything. I'm sure everybody that see's your posts think the same thing I do, just don't waste their time to say anything. But I got a major pet peeve against people like you, and I feel the need to say something. Figuring after a while, you'll realize either keep your post to yourself, or learn to actually posting helpful or productive comments. And I don't just pick on you either, so don't feel special. Also, about World Finals, are you talking to me? I do find it funny that instead of taking up for yourself you jump straight to "fuck your ass up". Which I doubt you could do. As I'm not sure if your talking about SPL or actually ass kicking. I still doubt you lack the knowledge to do either. haha i have more knowledge and more systems than you ever have had. nope im talking about beating your ass bro, not in spl, not in whos sounds better. im comin for you dont you worry and if you feel i dont have audio knowledge like you, check my youtube. i have had more systems than you and your friends put together. cyber bullying is a crime nigga. but me murdering your ass will be hilarious http://www.youtube.com/user/illredsea?feature=mhee Do I even need to reply? I think you made yourself look worst than ever. That link was just to funny. I'm ready for another one of your posts. That is if your not banned. Since you made a racist remark, and threaten to kill somebody. I'm pretty sure that's ground for a permaban. lol awhhh dont you just wish you were an administrator? lol im sorry your life sucks so bad bro

Peel n Seal is a good cheap way. a whole roll for like 15 bucks.

Did you read ANY of the above posts? That's a dumb question, you know he can't read. Well at least from what I've seen. lolz you gots no one else to pick on but me =[ what a shame im gona fuck your ass up at world finals man If you didn't make ignorance post, I wouldn't have any reason to say anything. I'm sure everybody that see's your posts think the same thing I do, just don't waste their time to say anything. But I got a major pet peeve against people like you, and I feel the need to say something. Figuring after a while, you'll realize either keep your post to yourself, or learn to actually posting helpful or productive comments. And I don't just pick on you either, so don't feel special. Also, about World Finals, are you talking to me? I do find it funny that instead of taking up for yourself you jump straight to "fuck your ass up". Which I doubt you could do. As I'm not sure if your talking about SPL or actually ass kicking. I still doubt you lack the knowledge to do either. haha i have more knowledge and more systems than you ever have had. nope im talking about beating your ass bro, not in spl, not in whos sounds better. im comin for you dont you worry and if you feel i dont have audio knowledge like you, check my youtube. i have had more systems than you and your friends put together. cyber bullying is a crime nigga. but me murdering your ass will be hilarious http://www.youtube.com/user/illredsea?feature=mhee