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Wow, I go out of town for an alumni event for the weekend, and BLAM! It should be obvious why I don't say what our costs are, but yes, they are drastically more costly to build our sub woofers here in the USA then overseas. It is a mixture of comical and frustrating when competitor's sub woofers that are built overseas. As mentioned earlier, there is few aspects that really effect our build costs that others are not doing. The CNC machining of motors/poles is a huge portion of our build cost per sub woofers. Many brands will just use nuts as spacers between the motor stack and the basket, but our sub woofers are using spiral axis cooling channels on the pole. This does a number of things for superior cooling of the coil, but that is a different topic, what maters here is the time and cost on the CNC machine for each one built. Because of that extra care, time and effort, it cannot be easily done in mass quantities. Also, when not turning a large margin on our products, it means we have less to play with when it comes to expanding our company. It does piss me off when some fool says our products are over priced, they truly haven't a clue and need to be slapped. People have been asking me for a number of years now why we don't have amps or a full line up of mid's and highs etc. This is because the standard now is for someone with no audio background, to just call up a build house overseas, use a credit card and a pre-order, and TADA with in 18-24 months they have a full line up of sub woofers, amplifiers and more. I don't want our brand to be like that. Sure, our growth has been much less rapid as all the new offerings that show up every year, and sure Mark and I are not putting anywhere near what we would like into our pockets due to the higher build cost and much lower volume of sales, but we have near-ZERO warranty failure, a very strong return customer base, and the assurance of one of the highest levels of quality of materials and performance from our sub woofers to every customer that picks SSA for their sub woofer needs. We are trying to take the superior, long term thinking approach to these other brands that show up out of no where, as there is much more time and effort invested into each and every one of our sub woofers. It means we are not killing it in the bank account or hitting the golf course in the middle of the day, or expanding into new major markets overseas etc.. One perfect example, was the beautifully explained break down of the Xcon above. In short, the CNC machining, the addition of a shorting ring (long coil, so inductance was brought down a little) and the much more steel used (instead of a simple triple stack), creates a better sub all around and that is a powerful piece of mind. It is a very good thing to know and to have, even if we are not making much from each unit sold. We run with a very low overhead and keep our expenses to a minimum. Having our sub's machined and built here in the USA (even using steel from California), just does not matter to the masses anymore. The wildfire virus of the American consumer, is the extreme short shortsightedness and only seeing initial price to them, and not the long term. It is more then about keeping more of the money from the purchase price here in the USA, it is also understanding the higher level of quality and performance they are getting. We do gain a number of customers who had a shorter then liked, life span of their prior sub woofer that was made overseas. So in short, to sort of answer the first question, the factors that go into the costs of our products: place of build (USA) {cost of labor etc.}source of materialsquality of materialsquality of partsextra steps taken for better performancethe details in many of the modelslow volume salesmade-to-order production

Ahh, I didn't know you changed your name to Sunday. Cute.

Really hard to make a sub in the states and sell it for 100 bucks...figure your labor, overhead etc. you end up going in the hole. Preboxed stuff from china..not an issue...but that's a road we don't travel with Fi.

You made me turn sigs on. Rofl.

Didn't take too many shots today. Rode for about 4 hours. It was fuckin' cold. We hit some hills, ran the drag strip, rode a few woods trails (they were really swampy thanks to the rain we had and my son was having a hell of a time keeping his bike up), and ran on the construction if the nearby roads. For some reason my damn phone shut down 3 times I tried taking pics. So I didn't get the dragstrip (old overgrown farmer's air strip) or some of the hills we hit on the construction. Looking from the top of one of our favorite climbs. It is ~40 feet high, a good steep angle, and if you hit it right you get some solid air. Looking right down said jump/hill My son climbing a hill. Now that we showed him how to climb we can't get him to stop.

Awe look at ///M5 junior with the cute signature, haha

Buy an adhesive kit from their accessories section as well. PSI and FI have the best CA glue IMO. You want to buy the 2oz which is good enough the recone about 2 15" woofers. As far as what tools and accessories you need, check out the videos on youtube from ShowtimeSPL on how to recone a woofer. This is how I learned and I have now successfully reconed more than 10 woofers.

buy the recone and basket from Fi. the motors are the same so its just a matter of the basket and recone.

Jagermeister Guzzling Competition?

There is no su there is no such thing as a sub you can just "blast" and not worry about it

I think we need a miniDSP thread. I am looking that way right now as well.

Sweet

heres a indepth read if your into it http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_5_2/cmilleressayporting.html

Just got back from lowes with the wood for my new box! It will be a 3.25ft^3 sealed box...can't wait!

All the pictures for tonight.

More pictures. Old box and new box under construction.

Ever since I got into car audio, I had it in my head, that the pinnacle of SQ was running underdash horns. I was young and naive. Regardless, over the years I would tell myself that one day I would run some underdash horns. Well, that day has come, and here is the proof. I stuck with an original: 20install/01_zpsa4e2d833.jpg.html'> Showing off like a proud papa. A pic of the ride they will be calling home. I started off by mocking up the passenger side horn. To get the horn tucked up nice and high, I cut off these bosses on the HVAC blower housing. From there I was able to whip up a bracket in CAD and have it cut out. With the horn bracket in place I transferred the mounting hole locations onto the horn body and get it in place. With the front side good to go, I look towards the compression driver end of the horn to add some support. I opted to make an "L" bracket out of the supplied straps. Here I use a square scrap of mdf as a gage to figure the short leg length of the bracket. To ensure that the bracket is properly oriented, I scribed the outline of it in it's installed position. On the kick panel I attached a riv-nut, simplifying removal and re-installation of the horn body. Here is the passenger side horn in it's new home. More on the way.

Got a few pics here of my doors, pillars and a couple of my box so far.

no doubt, people get caught up with RMS too much.

left by the X? i dont get it.. the X is still a line..... the SSA Dcon fits your needs

Today's ride.. about 20 miles total, solo ride so the pace was really light. It's tons of fun navigating by map. Top of the hill, overseeing the city: Top of the hill was the ridge line in the distance And I still had to go to this ridge line From the previous ridge line I saw the destination, a few lakes, barely visible in the picture Very windy on the lakes... Deserted house

Truconcept v.2. PHd in douchebaggery.

The backplate is the area at the rear of the driver behind the magnet. It completes the magnet circuit that starts at the top plate then transfers over to the pole piece. Bumping the backplate allows for higher mechanical rearward excursion clearance. Since the Xcon utilizes a single magnet, it needs a lot more steel at the rear of the driver to allow sufficient mechanical clearance. Some drivers use multiple magnets not for additional motor force but simply to allow sufficient rearward mechanical clearance since ferrite is cheaper than steel. So yes, this is probably more costly for SSA since it's significantly more machining and higher material costs than had they used a simple flat backplate and more ferrite magnets to build up the rearward mechanical clearance. My guess for their reason for using it would be that it allows them to machine entire the gap in such a manor to optimize the air flow for cooling within the motor and it probably allows a more efficient return path for the magnetic flux. IMO neither is better or worse for any purpose as long as they're properly implemented. All things equal aluminum is lighter which allows for a lower overall moving mass, but power handling is a little lower than copper. That said the comparison is hardly ever equal. Everything is a trade-off, it's all about finding the best set of compromises. The Xcon uses a pretty long coil, my guess would be in their design the lighter coil was of larger benefit than any difference in power handling. Forgot - Four layer is how many layers of wire are used to create the voice coil. The more wire in the gap the higher the motor force (the voice coil is the "L" in BL) and generally the higher the power handling (although there are some other factors in regards to cooling that factor in as well). It really has nothing to do with SQ, it has to do with achieving the correct motor force for the design and having sufficient power handling capabilities for the desired design. 4-layer is pretty common in higher power handling, higher motor strength drivers like the Xcon. A shorting ring, also called a Faraday Ring, is an aluminum or copper ring or sleeve located within the motor of the loudspeaker. They can be located at different places in the motor (or multiple places at the same time), such as (for example) a sleeve over the pole or a cap on top of the pole, and where they are located does have an affect on their use and effectiveness and depends on the designers goals. Shorting rings, as the name implies, shorts out the eddy currents created by the moving voice coil. Ultimately they lower overall loudspeaker inductance and help reduce flux modulation within the motor. Nomex spiders are used by other loudspeaker manufacturers. It is designed from the ground up by Scott Atwell with the input of SSA and to their design specifications and performance objectives.

The problem is that you are wanting to ignore the fact that being produced in small production quantities on a per-order basis in the USA is a major contributing factor to the cost of the driver. They could take the exact same parts, have it produced on a large scale overseas and end up with lower production costs. Economies of scale and higher production costs from being produced in the USA are real and considerable factors, even though they may not be "technical". And as M5 said the actual selling price of the driver is determined more by what the market will bear than what the production costs of the driver are. The issue for the company is that higher production costs mean lower margins. I think you are barking up the wrong tree. Had you asked simply about the design features that should make you consider an SSA driver, then you would probably be more on track right now with the answers you've received. But asking about the production costs of the driver brings up the ball of worms you are trying to ignore but add significant cost to the driver compared to overseas manufacturing, independent of materials used.

The only one being dramatic is you. Your questions were answered, however, not to your liking. If you want specifics, then state that. Most people want a simple answer which was provided. I won't even bother with your nonsense comment. Are you blind? The OP says PLEASE TRY TO BE SPECIFIC/TECHNICAL IN YOUR ANSWER If I wanted a simple answer I would not have typed, PLEASE TRY TO BE SPECIFIC/TECHNICAL IN YOUR ANSWER And the dramatic people are those defending SSA when noone is attacking SSA, and why are you guys so defensive anyways, is there something not being said? 90% of the answers I got were from people who do not know what they are talking about like yourself tire, saying because it is made in USA. Real good input and helpful to boot..... So don't get butthurt and go banning me or something. There is what, 1 new thread here a week, and I now see why. The ONLY technical reason is that the owners of SSA are too nice to put a real margin on their product. If they acted like other companies their products would be way more expensive.I wouldn't call this defending SSA, hell almost ripping on them. I give them shit regularly about raising the prices as they are inappropriately low for what you get. As for understanding marketing on how things are priced, there isn't a major audio manufacturer that my company hasn't been a critical cog in the design of the drivers. I've been in countless R&D and manufacturing centers and have an extremely good understanding of production cost. In the grand scheme of things it NEVER changes the selling price. You'd also cry at the markup's the big players can have as production is definitely an economy of scale and it is absurd how cheap things can be manufactured that way. The whole topic is a prepubescent nightmare showing an obvious disconnect in the world of business.

Lord. You should really ask why the are so cheap.<br /><br />There is ALWAYS a simple answer for how anything is priced. It is what the market will bear. Cost should never have anything to do with price. Value does. The SSA subs are a ridiculous value and IMO should be priced a lot higher.<br /><br />And yes, that is a technical answer. Any other thought on pricing is jacked.

So your answer is USA labor and quality. Yea that is exactly what the OP asks for.... How about what specifically with the quality? Is the basket machined a certain way with special coatings? Is the surround made of some high quality super rubber that most subs do not use? Is it because of the way the voice coil is put together? does that take more time? Those would be better questions to answer instead of "because things cost more in the USA". And if you guys think Mark and AAron should answer this, then why are you posting? Nobody is asking about the business, I am asking about the materials in the SSA woofer that makes it worth the price. While they do use the higher (maybe highest, I can't say for certain because I just don't know) quality parts in the cone, surround, spiders, etc. the real money is in the labor and the fact that each and every motor is machined from a blank slug of steel, assembled and the magnet is charged at that point. I'm also fairly certain the coils are each custom wound as well then all of the parts assembled by hand. That process happens over and over again for each and every driver that is built in the build house. There's a great deal of cost in building things in that manner but it helps ensure the process produces some of the highest quality, most robust and trustworthy drivers on the market. Mark and Aaron may or may not have more to add, but that's the reasons in a nutshell that they're a little spendy compared to other brands with similar specifications. At least how I see it and how it's been explained in the past. Aside from that, why do you ask? I can't see any good coming from asking such a personal question about one brand in particular without giving (actual) good cause. Everyone has their preferences and favorite brands and it's no secret that many of the members of this forum has used, liked, and will defend the SSA brand but I also believe it's for a very good reason. If this is to start any kind of trouble I'm certain it won't and this will be put to bed in a hurry.

if you find some ones post very helpful and factual then +1 it .... if its full of shit or myth then -1 it. but PLEASE PLEASE allways keep emoation out of it. .. too many times people -1 post because they are butt hurt that is not a butt hurt button

LEt me ask you this. . . . Why are the subs made in china so high? LEt me put it this way. Say an SSA/Fi/AA sub costs $200. It costs $100 to make, $30 to package and ship, and another $30 for overhead. So, the profit at best is $40. The chinese subs cost $20 to make, $20 to package and ship, let's figure in the same for overhead even though it's probably half that, so that driver that is $200 from the guy who had his shit made in china only actually cost him $70, yet he's selling it to you for $200turning a $130 profit. Add in to that, the products are often inferior to the US (my own personal opinion here) counterparts and take away from our economy and jobs.

they wont play below 2 ohms i think they protect at 1.7 and will play no lower. rememeber its two amps internaly strapped

He was right the first time. Have you ever seen how fast Alton works? He flies right through builds. LOL!! Sure. That's why I still have the 10" XCON (and PR's), 15" DCON, and 15" ICON sitting in their shipping boxes unused. One bit of good news, I did finally start assembly on the box for the Jimmy (using the $90 Baltic Birch) again. I may ACTUALLY get it done and installed before the end of the year this year. LOL

If you decide to sell it pm me. I'm happy to still have my original. J

Am I supposed to feel bad? Because I dont. You asked a question and I answered. There is nothing personal to my response, so why are you giving up? Do you think a cheap set of speakers strapped to your head will sound good? Go for it. I suggested bookshelf speakers because at least there would be some design involved and trial/error. It would get your mind moving and be much more rewarding in the end. Hell if you'd be willing to post a small build log on here, I'll donate a pair of full range speakers for your project.

In all of the projects I have ever posted about on here, i've probably spent a total of less than $100. I get things secondhand, or pick them. That being said, the drivers i've found so far are all under $5, so a pair would be less than 15 after shipping. It's starting to get clear that it's useless asking questions here anymore, I understand it's not exactly a conventional project, none of mine are really; but I would at least expect a bit of a break for being excited enough about audio stuff to want to experiment in any way I can , despite not being financially well off. Not everyone can afford nice toys; I'm homeless, I come to the local college to use the wifi to get on here. I'm trying to stay off drugs and out of jail by dumping my focus on speakers, and this is how i'm met with it. I'm lost; I thought this was a hobby not a cut and dried process to attain sound. What happened to trying new things, or having fun with it? I used to really respect people's opinions here, but not while you all put me down like this. I quit.

where did it say 3? It didn't I failed at reading.

Posting again about my recone. Just bord and wanting it bad lol. Sucks it takes this long cause Iv had a few people iv built boxes for want ssa subs after hearing mine but wouldnt order any cause how long its taking me just to get a recone.. I know its hard to keep up with orders but I know there would be a lot more subs sold if there was less time to wait

Not sure if im following you 100% but for android that would be Google Play https://play.google.com/music/listen

and I mysteriously have -14 rep..Wonder who could of done that. Is there a way to see which posts of mine have been voted down?

Just use whatever your electrical system can handle...

Thanks guys definitely eases the mind. I'll be sure to check under the hood from time to time though.

There is a very nice enclosure in this thread that almost your EXACT dimensions required designed by Alton with cut sheets and everything. http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/topic/58863-gcon-build-help-needed/ I don't know how well the RE Sub would do in it but posts like this are all over the site and you could easily modify it a little to suit your needs. You gotta put in a little effort dude. As for the sub choice, there are about 50 12's I'd take over that XXX and still have funds left over for an amp. I just pulled it up on Sonic and holy crap - $720 for ONE FREAKING 12? It's not any business of mine what you spend on your sub but just if it were me I would certainly never spend that on a single sub, let alone a 12". You could probably get the same output from a sub less than half the price, as for Sq that all depends on the box. If you tune low they'll all have fairly flat curves which should amount to decent Sq but that is completely subjective. Subjective meaning - what sounds good to Joe might sound like crap to Jim and what sounds good to Jenny might sound awful to Jerome.

Shizzzon is steering you in the right direction, because if it IS a hardware related issue, reformatting wont do Jack.

try unplugging your laptop from the wall, taking out the battery, and holding the power button for 20-30 seconds then put your battery back in. Then try booting into safe mode w/ networking and update your graphic drivers as shizz said. my ideas are better than your idea roflll unplug and blah hahaha and display control or whatever its called on nvidia, excuse me why don't u submit some more brilliant advice instead of trashing mine i waited a couple days before posting, i just wanna help ive fixed laptops with blue screen errors by reinstalling windows before so im sharing and shizzon no disrespect taken i understand this is a technical subject idk how it works im just putting what has worked for me if windows registry has multiple errors then it could "overwork" the cpu to the point of protecting itself to the blue screen? Removing all power from the laptop resets Cmos, so if for any reason something in the Bios was changed, it would be reset to default.

If it was a CPU Cooling problem the laptop wouldn't blue screen it would just shutdown. The error its throwing is a GPU error due to corrupt Nvidia drivers, as shizzzzon said. Reformatting would probably do the trick but, that's assuming Rick has a copy of windows.

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