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So every amp should be the same price going by your logic. They are pricey compared to what? Actually that's not even close to what I said. Compared to other amplifiers, they are more expensive. And yes, all amplifiers with similar features should be priced fairly close. That's like saying 600 horsepower cars should be in all price ranges. Well hell yes I'd love that. But someone paying big money for the same power would probably be disappointed in their purchase. I was asking what made the amplifier's price higher than comparable models as there could be difference to make it worth the price. I wasn't being rude, nor was I trying to stir the pot, I'm gathering information. Thanks for adding a high level of maturity to the topic. The problem with such is that there isn't any good way for the average person to empirically determine which is better. You can test drive vehicles, see which handles better, feels more comfortable, and which feels faster. With amps that's much harder to do, and especially in a car environment where it's unlikely you could hear a difference between one and another for SQ, or output (unless the power difference is huge, talking about nearly double the difference in power). So the only thing left is the manufacturer and their reputation. Who do you believe has the resources to design a better amp? At least that's my opinion.

Lets look at this shall we a build house buys a 3k 4k or whatever k board. They put the components on the board that's suppose to make whatever power that its suppose to make. They hook it up to a dummy load with no rise or voltage drop to check to see if it makes the power it suppose to and if it does then it passes their test. Then they sell it to someone like me when we ask for a amplifier to start a company. We get a sample to test for power to see if it will indeed make the power they state. Now whether its with a clamp meter or with a amp dyno or whatever ohm law is ohms law last time I checked. Now using a clamp may not be 100% accurate but it is close enough to give you a idea of if it works or make close to the power it is suppose to. As far as needing any help on testing you are more than welcome to buy one and test it out and post your results.

Buy a skar sub lol.

Updated hope that cuts down on any confusion it may have caused

Found this guide on another forum, and given the slew of recent threads on troubleshooting noise, thought I would post it here. One word of warning is that some HU's and/or processors nowadays have a zero bit mute, which essentially cuts off the output during low signal passages to reduce noise.....so be aware if this is a feature your unit has. Onward to the guide; How can you eliminate alternator whine in a car audio system? If you have alternator whine in a car audio system and want to get rid of it, there is only one sure-fire way to do it. David Navone and Richard Clark from Autosound 2000 in the USA developed the following step-by-step instructions. If you follow the instructions EXACTLY, you are guaranteed to trace and eliminate the noise in your car audio system. Don’t miss a step and don’t assume that something is OK without checking it. Each time you check for noise, you should do it with the engine running at 1500 to 2000 rpm and the headlights on full beam so that the alternator will be charging. The tests with the CD player connected should be done with a ‘zero bit’ track playing and the volume at maximum. Set your CD player to ‘repeat’ if it has that feature. Safety. Make sure when doing noise tests that the parking brake is on and working, and that the vehicle is in neutral or ‘park’. Perform these tests in an area with good ventilation or use an extension hose on the exhaust to route the fumes outside. Step 1. Check the Amplifiers 1a. Unplug the RCA cables from the amplifier/s and mute the signal at the input by using shorting plugs. This will isolate the amplifier from the rest of the car stereo installation. You can make shorting plugs by taking cheap male RCA plugs and soldering the centre and outer terminals together. This shorts out the input of the amplifier/s to ensure that it has zero signal. Has the noise gone? Yes. Go straight to Step 2. Reduce The System. No. Go to 1b. 1b. Disconnect the speakers from the amp and connect a pair of test speakers to it. Make sure the test speakers are not in contact with the car body. The purpose of this step is to ensure proper isolation of the speakers and the speaker leads from the car's chassis. Has the noise gone? Yes. Check speakers, speaker leads and passive crossovers for proper isolation from the car's chassis. Shift passive crossovers to a location away from power cables and the car’s body. No. Go to 1c. 1c. Isolate the amplifier from the chassis of the car. There must not be any electrical contact between the car's chassis and the amplifier, except for the grounding point. Has the noise gone? Yes. Reinstall the amplifier isolated from the chassis of the car. Make sure that the amplifier is grounded in just one point. No. Go to 1d. 1d. Supply the amplifier with an isolated power source, for example an external car battery or a 12-Volt DC power supply. Has the noise gone? Yes. Noise is entering the amplifier via the power supply, try changing the grounding point and add external power supply filtering. Consider changing the amplifier. No. The amplifier has some severe problems, is totally isolated and still noisy. Replace it or have it repaired. That is the end of Step 1. You have now either eliminated the amplifier and speakers as a problem or you have replaced a faulty amplifier. Now you can go on to Step 2. Step 2. Reduce the System. 2a. The amplifier is known to be OK. It is now time to disconnect any signal processors (equaliser, electronic crossover, etc.) and connect the signal from the output of the head unit directly into the input of the amplifier. Has the noise gone? Yes. The noise source must be either one or more of the processors or possibly the signal route. Go to Step 3. ‘Add Signal Processors’. If you didn’t have any signal processors and you are using the signal cable in its normal, installed route then the problem is solved. No. Go to 2b. 2b. Run new signal cables over a new route between the head unit and the amplifier. Has the noise gone? Yes. Permanently route the signal cables in the new route. Go to Step 3. ‘Add Signal Processors’. If you don’t have any signal processors then your problem is solved. No. Go to 2c. 2c. Isolate the case of the head unit from car's chassis. There must not be any electrical contact between the head unit and car chassis except for a single grounding point. Beware of antenna grounds and pullout cases! Has the noise gone? Yes. Reinstall the head unit isolated from the car's chassis and any other metal parts in the dash. Ground the head unit at one point. Go to Step 3. ‘Add Signal Processors’. If you don’t have any signal processors then your problem is solved. No. Go to 2d. 2d. Move the head unit ground to a quieter grounding point. Test a number of points and also try grounding the head unit to the same point as the amplifier. Has the noise gone? Yes. Reinstall the head unit using the quiet grounding point. Go to Step 3. ‘Add Signal Processors’. If you don’t have any signal processors then your problem is solved. No. Go to 2e. 2e. Move the head unit as near to the amplifier as possible. Then connect output of the head unit to the amplifier with the shortest possible RCA cables. Has the noise gone? Yes. Reinstall the head unit one step at a time. Check for noise after each step during the reinstallation. Once you have the head unit installed, noise free go to Step 3. ‘Add Signal Processors’. If you don’t have any signal processors then your problem is solved. No. Go to 2f. 2f. Supply the head unit with an isolated power source, for example an external car battery or a 12 VDC power supply. Make sure that car chassis is not in contact with the head unit. Has the noise gone? Yes. The head unit is sensitive to noise in the supply voltage. Add power supply filtering to the supply voltage for the head unit or use an isolated power supply. You may be better to change the head unit. Once you have a head unit installed noise free, go to Step 3. ‘Add Signal Processors’. If you don’t have any signal processors then your problem is solved. No. There is a serious problem with the head unit. Go to Step 4 'Check the Vehicle' and/or change the head unit. Step 3. Add Signal Processors. At this level the amplifier is known to be good. The car's electrical system is OK and the reinstalled head unit is working fine when connected directly to the amplifier. 3a. Connect one of the Processors back into the signal path. Has the noise gone? Yes. Go to 3a for the next processor. If there are no more processors, the problem is solved. No. Go to 3b. 3b. Run new signal cables over a new route between the Head-unit and processor and between the Processor and the amplifier. Has the noise gone? Yes. Permanently route the cables on the new quiet path. Go to 3a for the next processor. If there are no more processors, the problem is solved. No. Go to 3c. 3c. Isolate the processor from the car's chassis except for a single grounding point. Connect the processor ground to the same grounding point as the head unit. Has the noise gone? Yes. Provide isolation between the Processor and the car's chassis and permanently route the cables on the known quiet path. Go to 3a for the next processor. If there are no more processors, the problem is solved. No. Go to 3d. 3d. Since new cables and re-grounding does not help, it is time to relocate the processor very near the amplifier. Connect the output of the processor to the amplifier with the shortest possible RCA cables. Has the noise gone? Yes. Reinstall the Processor one step at a time. Check for noise after each step in the reinstallation. Be careful when routing the signal cables. Remember that the car's chassis is a conductor. Go to 3a for the next processor. If there are no more processors, the problem is solved. No. Go to 3e. 3e. Power the processor with an isolated power supply. Do not let the processor touch the chassis of the car. Has the noise gone? Yes. The processor’s power supply in not sufficiently isolated from its audio circuitry. Either replace it or consider the permanent installation of an isolated power supply (1:1 DC/DC converter). This type of device provides a permanent power source that is well isolated from the car's chassis. Go to 3a for the next processor. If there are no more processors, the problem is solved. No. Go to 3f. 3f. Physically separate the processor and the isolated power supply from the rest of the system by many metres. Use long signal cables. Has the noise gone? Yes. Something is seriously wrong with either the processor or your install/test procedures. Please repeat this level from the beginning. No. Change Processor -- this one has design problems. Go back to 3a for the new processor. Step 4. Check the Vehicle The suspect car's charging and electrical systems can be checked by using the previously installed sound system in a "known quiet" car. 4a. Connect jumper cables between the batteries of the two vehicles and start the engine of the suspect car. Turn on the headlights on the suspect car and listen to the stereo on the "known quiet" car. Is there now noise in the quiet car’s system? Yes. Have a qualified auto electrician check out the car’s charging system. No. The suspect car's alternator and charging system is now proven to be quiet. The problem must lie in the car stereo installation -- not in the vehicle.

Haha at high level of maturity comment, don't get sand in your vagina dude. Your post is worded horrible but glad you feel you made valid points. Like I said in regards to what amps, how are these amps pricey? If you really think all amps should cost the same price then your logic is flawed, regardless if they have the same features and claim to do the same amount of power. It doesn't mean the same components are inside, or they make the same power at the same voltage at the same THD, or the same R&D if any went into making them, etc. Don't get upset, just don't see why people always claim something is pricey when they may be comparing it to something of lesser quality.

You're comparing a small footprint mini amplifier that is more than likely made in China and is made with cheap internal parts that are far cheaper in quality and price than what is used in the Korean built Flatline amplifier. Now compare the VFL lineup from American Bass and now your in the same price class and Korean built quality.

Glad to see you're on here. Mark @ SSA came down to Tampa after SBN to meet up with Robin, myself and others. He seemed impressed with our vehicles (mostly Robin's Tahoe). But my 2 12s on the FL1 were impressive, pretty sure his wife got a mini hairtrick from my truck. Don't feed into the trolls, they feed off forums.

To answer your question the best way I can feel free to pm iamamp3pimp or reelfish92 they switched from skar and crescendo to our amps. They can tell you what they like and don't like vs me trying to point out differences without causing drama between brands

There is no legitimate way to compare one amp to another without having to discredit another company. That's really the main reason that non one answers that type of question. We aren't saying that we are reinventing amplifiers by any means. We told our build house we wanted something totally different than any other company that was here in the united states and that's what we got and to answer how much power to they make @ 16 or 18V lets take our 7k for example it does 7k@ 14v @16v 8200 and @ 18v 9600. so that gives you a idea of what they are capable of.

Well to solve this brief argument that's going on here on the price of our amplifiers. We don't compare our amps to other companies plain and simple. We have had customers switch from other companies amps to ours and have been more than satisfied. We are not the type of company to try to point out differences just to sell amp. All I can say is if you really are interested and really want to try one then feel free to order one during our preorder that will be up soon. If your not convinced then don't. If you look at our boards they are totally different than any other companies. That's all I can tell you as far as differences compared to any other company.

They are both subwoofers

Id do something like what Quentin said. Rockford prime series are good. I would even buy a quality amp that's 500 rms then a shitty amp that's 1000rms. You really won't hear a difference in a few hundred rms. the box is more in important.

At least they said 0 distortion with no reference to THD. A couple quick hints for you. In the future if you are going to quote testing the customer base here would appreciate that you post significant digits and uncertainty on your measurements. Stating a power of 1768.029381 watts would show a rather large lack of understanding in testing methodology. And since I was setup like a t-ball my other recommendation is to throw that useless piece of junk (the DD-1) in the garbage (or CL it). It isn't helping you do anything. If you think it truly is, start a thread and we can discuss it. By no means is this ANY attack on the product or company. I can assume since Mark & Aaron offered you a spot on the board that you guys are great and the product will be as well. Just want to help outline how to really get that message across.

ALRIGHTY THEN!!! Got the first application of bedliner on the box!! Could be all it needs, the primer really helped, time will tell. If it doesn't need another application of bedliner, then it's done!! Or pretty much so, the only thing left would be to apply it to the bottom (really no biggie), remove the tape covering the mounting locations and remove the protective film from the plexi windows. If it needs another application then that's no biggie either, it wouldn't be much if it did. I can practically see the XCON mounted now! Onto a few pictures. Damn it, I gotta get the engine in the truck so I can listen to the sub!! LOL I gotta figure out how to get the Jimmy hauled to work. All the guys said they'd help me get it changed out so I need to take them up on the offer ASAP. Figured I'd toss this on just for fun. Brand new 2013 Honda MUV700 Big Red. We just got it for work to do stuff around the stations and on the right of way. Took it for a couple hour long break in ride and I gotta say it's one hell of a nice machine!

Don't use power acoustik. They're shitty. What's your budget?

Besides rms rating, how in the world are they like Icons?

So every amp should be the same price going by your logic. They are pricey compared to what? Actually that's not even close to what I said. Compared to other amplifiers, they are more expensive. And yes, all amplifiers with similar features should be priced fairly close. That's like saying 600 horsepower cars should be in all price ranges. Well hell yes I'd love that. But someone paying big money for the same power would probably be disappointed in their purchase. I was asking what made the amplifier's price higher than comparable models as there could be difference to make it worth the price. I wasn't being rude, nor was I trying to stir the pot, I'm gathering information. Thanks for adding a high level of maturity to the topic.

So every amp should be the same price going by your logic. They are pricey compared to what?

yo dog becuz forf order boxs be bangin yo thats all i read all day on face book....and just to tune yall in on what the streets think.. a 6th order is 6 times as loud as a ported box... so keep that in mind.

Look for a rescue organization. They may be able to help you find one. Hell troll the Crigslist animals section. J

Meh, another company bringing nothing new or filling any niche in the market.....just bringing more rebadged product to the market from overseas. Doesn't seem to really know or understand anything about his product beyond what the build house told him. Pulled a Kevin with his "these are underrated" nonsense when they've never been tested as such. Sure, seems like a nice guy and I can appreciate his enthusiasm. But naive and really no need to be in the market. I'm just old and crabby, but really the market is so flooded with these types of companies that I see little to be impressed with in any of them. It takes nothing but capital to order product from Asia. No knowledge, no defined niche to fill, no product differentiation. Just money and the ability to order from a menu.

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/topic/35027-noise-troubleshooting-guide/

The new amp vendor looks promising as they are honest. No Sundown hate....Skar still sucks.

There you are Rick, I could always count on you this time of night.

I hate rodents.

I like those kind of lows in those songs. I don't really know how to explain it but when you tune higher like you just did it makes the low lows like in those songs not play loud and stong. It also makes it sound weird and shitty.That's why I like the lower tuning of around 32hz. That's probably what is "wrong" with your setup.

Hi SSA, 1- I want to know what's a line driver specifically for? 2- Also is it worth having? 3- I've heard that the higher the voltage the better, but I don't really know what is meant by that. Please explain. 4- I have an Audiocontrol Eql concert series, does this have a line driver? My hu is a Jvc KD-R730BT. Thank you.

you can clip inputs just the same as you can outputs. Keep that in mind when running and reviewing the results of your test.

Went to my local Sears today and bought a new microwave and stove. I know the owner and he treats me very good.

Just use the stock wire.

Properly installed those IA components do their job. If you spend $120 on components use the other $60 on deadening products from sounddeadenershowdown.com.

Well, that pretty much sums it up! To give my honest opinion, I've listened to several sp4 installs, and when comparing them to mine, I can't "hear" a lick of difference lol. But I too would purchase an Evil simply based off of the support that comes with it. In regards to what kind of applications these drivers would apply to, I would suggest for the lower notes. If you listen to C&S music, decaf, DJSNT, or any of the music that plays heavily on anything below 32hz, then these are the drives you should buy. If your more into Dubstep, or any sort of Electronic music that plays from 45hz and up, then I would go with a ZCON/BTL. Obviously the enclsoure and it's environment have lots of "influence" of the way they perform, this is just based off of my real world experience witht the said subwoofers.

Perfect example of how questions should be asked, just look at the responses, they speak volume !!!

Well put Quentin. I would personally buy the Evil to help support the forum, SSA, and Fi.

lmao... literally

I agree with you, but I'd like to know why you posted them being clamped if you find it a pointless test?

3 years later....... and that wont happen these are jacobs comp boxs.

Let me have a go at one.. I got 4 5500ds i can strap on one, lol.. But really, stiff suspension is a plus for my overpowering ass. No, overly stiff suspension that's not mated well to the rest of the driver = a really fucked up response curveCough psi cough.

No problem that's what we're here for. Any questions or concerns its our job to try answer to the best of our ability and I'm the type of person that if I don't know I will definitely do my best to find out for you.

This has come up a lot lol but to answer your question you kinda have to see one in person to better understand. The amps have the same amount of components as any other amp but just say instead of 8 small transformers on the power side there are 4 double stacked used. Same for the ones on the output side instead of 4 there are 2 double stacked. Our amps are a little taller than most companies because of this. As far as the capacitors its the same instead of using a lot of smaller ones we just use fewer larger ones. We could have used the same board layout as everyone else but what would have been the point. That would have been a waste of everyone's time and effort. Hope this answers your question. Well thanks a lot for answering my question! That actually helps a lot. So, knowing the information you've provided, what are some of the pros/cons when using few larger ones vs several smaller ones? (ones being the capacitors and the transformers or any of the other amplifier components.) Mainly this was done to make a smaller amplifier for the given power size mainly in length is where the difference is . Width may be a little smaller than some other companies but honestly our amps should be about the same width wise. Now as far as pros or cons I really cant say to be honest. Its just the way that the boards were designed, they are designed to be very efficient and that they are. They have exceeded all the factory specs power wise even for what they are rated to do @ their 1 ohm rating. Really keeping your word on the CS, that's for sure! And thank you, for being honest, that will definately help you from ever being "skared", as another member puts it. I look forward to seeing more from your company

This is a buddies car. We all went up to the local cruise in last night so I got the 60 out. When I pulled in there was atleast 25 people surrounding the car, was like that all night. Crazy, he had people offering to pay him to give them a ride. lol The car is crazy badass!! here is a 59 that is setup kinda like my 60. Was sanded down flat and looked pretty sick. My pile

im guessing they are FM broadcasted now... it would be sweet to go in the lincoln and watch a action flick.. and the explosions and gun fire would be out of this world. im sure i would get some odd looks lol

The whole build will determine what subs to get. If you give the info I said you need to give then you will get a better chance of getting your question answered. Btw the X isn't even out so nobody knows if it's actually good or not. But I'm sure it is since it's sundown.

Wonder what that statement means. You will most likely find out soon if you do not know.

1489 for a 5k amp?!

"slam HARD!!" well thats great! all the info to recommend a product is right there. Nobody has used a sundown x. So how can we tell you which is better?