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You are arguing religion. Is the world flat just because everyone thought it was? Is the Earth the center of the solar system just because everyone thought it was? Is clamp testing an accurate measurement method just because a lot of people do it? We don't have a lot of clamp test results on this forum, outside of a couple manufacturer forums that I'm aware of. Maybe it's because our core member base understands the limitations and inaccuracies involved in the procedure and therefore don't waste their time. Why they are so popular on other forums is probably a case of the blind leading the blind. Just because someone performs a "test" of some sort, doesn't mean the test or results are meaningful. This seems to be lost on many people. I have less of a problem with clamp tests (aside from their uselessness) than I do the conclusions people draw from them. A prime example is Flatline using them to demonstrate that their amplifier's are "underrated". The tests weren't performed in a manor to validate that claim. Had Flatline not made that particular statement, I wouldn't have commented in this thread. Whether or not he is new to the forum is completely irrelevant. We do have one manufacturer here who has posted a lot of clamp tests, and I've not busted his balls about it because he has always carefully chosen his words. To my knowledge, on this forum, he has never used them as evidence that his amplifiers are underrated. He'll say something along the lines of "Based on these tests we're comfortable with the design". Ok, that's fine. He's not implying they are anything more than an inaccurate estimate. But he's never said, that I've seen on this forum, anything implying the results are proof they are underrated or that they even meet rated power. Just that he's happy with the results. And that's fine. I have however busted the balls of people who later misinterpret the results of the tests. Since you want to play the "but everyone does it so it must be right" card......how many professionals in the industry use only a clamp meter & DMM to measure actual power output? I've seen a lot of magazine reviews done by professionals in the industry (both car and home), and have never seen one of them use only a clamp meter & DMM to measure power. Do the buildhouses use nothing but a clamp meter & DMM to verify their designs? Do the real manufacturers in the industry (not the rebadgers) use only a clamp meter & DMM to verify their designs? If clamp tests are so valid, why is it only the amateurs do them? Why do the professionals spend thousands to tens of thousands on equipment if a clamp, DMM and pocket o-scope will do the exact same thing for a couple hundred?

You might not like some of the things being said, but I can guarantee that you won't find a forum with more knowledgeable people. You say that you are new to the selling aspect of car audio, and I think that you could learn a lot by staying. If you shoot straight with the people here and try to take their criticism or suggestions as constructive you can expand your own knowledge. We have a great group here but you have to be willing to keep an open mind. I know that when I personally want info about a product this is where I come. If you just want to sell shit to the masses and don't care about facts and useful information about what you are doing then maybe this isn't the place for you. I hope that you do decide to stay, it's always nice to see more brands coming to the forum/store. Says who that we wont find a forum with more knowledge people , that's your opinion and your entitled to that. If I have question on things I know who to call from subs to amps. I don't know where you saw that we said we were to sales because we aren't we have been in retail for a while and I have been in the industry for 15+ years. So what your saying is if I don't agree with what a mod says then I am closed minded lmao that is so funny. So if a mod says the moon is blue here then because they say it its law. WOW last time I check we are not in a dictator ship so I don't have to agree with someone else on their views. How they feel is their opinion and that's their opinion. I am buy no means just interested in selling shit to the masses if you want to know the truth we never even wanted to be on a forum we were just going to sell direct and that's that but we had so many people wanting to sell them that's why we are here. We have turned down customers and competitors we aren't just worried about making a buck I have a regular job like everyone else and will even if things get even bigger. We are just here to provide the best product we can and that's all. When I think of a forum for a specific company it for people to ask questions about that particular product not for mods to try to discredit the company.

Yeah, I want the old system back. I would like to see who likes or dislikes comments. Whats happening to Jon and maybe others is bs and I think by seeing who is doing it will put a quick end to it.

If it gets out of hand, we just need to know who is doing it and I can remove their ability to use the rep system. The whole idea of the system is to give positive (visual) feedback for beneficial or helpful content or negative (visual) feedback for harmful or wrong or unhelpful content. Should be straightforward in my opinion. Chances are, I use it more than anyone else.

The comment that was made was not about our product it was about another company I don't want that drama here on our forum and if that is a problem then maybe we will not be here long because to me that is not called for on any forum whether here or anywhere else. That is something that I cant stand and if we cant moderate our forum the way that we see fit then what the point of having a moderator at all.

One thing that wont be tolerated in our forum is trolling, negative comments about any company we are not about any of that and it will not be tolerated here.

Whether we will remain on the forum is yet to be determined after all the drama over a couple of threads we are considering not staying. Since we seem to be invalid on post and other things I dont see any reason to pay for a vendor section when we have been said to be misleading customers with information and so on. We appreciate Mark giving us the chance to come here and maybe we will stay but as of right now it doesnt look that way.

Here are a few vid links to some of our competitors that are running out amps we have Mark Jenkins who has our FL1 which is our 2k, Robin Butler who has 2 of ourBA3s which is our 8.5k, Zaim nayor who has 2 of ourBA2s which is our 7k. We also have Hank Veach who has 3 7ks going on 4 lol hopefully we will have some vids of his F350 soon and MR Trippi Congo with the infamous Hummer with 6 of our BA3. Chris Peters has 2 of our El Nino's which is our 6.5k.

Getting them into peoples hands is our top priority but sacrificing other things just to make a sale isnt as important. Are our amps great HELL YEA will anyone be please buying one DAMN right. The have exceeded all of our expectations and more. But if it means we lose a few sales if we arent here maybe so. But anyone that would want to buy a amp from us I mean really wanted one it wouldnt be hard to track us down to buy one. We went into coming here thinking that things may go a certain way but we hoped it wouldnt but instead it went exactly the way we thought it would from certain people saying certain things. Honestly thats the reason I left SSA years ago but everyone deserves another chance and I decided to come back and low and behold it starts all over again. Be owe well it is what it is. I respect everyone and expect the same if certain people cant respect that then as I said maybe this isnt the place for us. Some peopel may feel that the new company desereves to be treated a certain way to see if we can hang or whatever weve dealt with a ton of BS on alot of other forum and for the past year and a half we are still here and have grown alot as a company. Everyone has values that they hold to as I am sure SSA does but that doesn mean your beliefs are the best compared to someone elses.

He saw them in my build, and in reelfish92's build. that kid is doing a hairtrick on 2k and a pair of 12s.....lolol

I think you'd be happy with what you find.

I'll comment on this one particular statement then drop the subject per Flatline's request just to briefly explain why this isn't a personal attack against them compared to the other manufacturer. Yes, it is different and yes it does promote ignorance when a statement such as "Here is our proof these amps are underrated" is made regarding those tests. The context is completely different than the other manufacturer. If you don't understand this, then you are part of the problem.

i think you misunderstand the questions with attacking, this is unlike alot of boards out there.. we have a very intelligent group here at SSA, and whats wrong with asking questions that matter? and for the record i give flatline props for standing in there and giving what ever incite he has and also admitting when he does not know..... i can name a few companies that either try to lie/ bullshit there was thru it , or run....

I agree that it is way too excessive. Nothing that Jon posts deserves a negative rep. On the other hand, Jon's reactions to getting -1 on his posts is probably why the person keeps doing it. I think if Jon would simply ignore it every time and not post crazy stuff with the name calling and what not, it would probably stop eventually. I agree with the suggestions above as well. I'm sure we'd all react like he has when he has to see it everyday.. for weeks.. months... etc.. IT's almost as bad as getting a prank call every other day for months..

I agree that it is way too excessive. Nothing that Jon posts deserves a negative rep. On the other hand, Jon's reactions to getting -1 on his posts is probably why the person keeps doing it. I think if Jon would simply ignore it every time and not post crazy stuff with the name calling and what not, it would probably stop eventually. I agree with the suggestions above as well.

Please do not delete any posts regardless. Set it to unapproved, or split it out move it to the moderation section and give me or one of the super moderators a heads up. We delete NOTHING on this site, period. Edit robot spammers posts, but that is it. By keeping every post, regardless of content, we can always go back and see. That does not mean no moderation in a section, if you feel there is moderation needed, do it, but we don't delete anything here, it is moved to the mod section and discussed if need be. This site runs so smoothly member wise, the level of moderation here, outside of spammers, is near zero. I do far more member moderation on other sites in one week then I have to do here all year.

As it stands at the moment, I have no money to support my habit I know the cone area difference is minimal & power distribution would be a benefit in running 6-15's. Just not sure the extra amount of money needed makes sense for a daily ground pounder right now. The 4-18's would be easier on me financially for now. Thinking that 6-15's may be yet another small step towards my 4yr plan LOL Who knows what I'll be doing over the next few months. Pulling the headliner & panels to deaden is the only 100% plan at the moment.

Err, not true on any account.I'd take the Koreans over the Japanese on ALL of your list.The Japanese also have BY FAR the highest cost, not the Americans. The only problem with American made stuff is that our people are so fucking lazy that the build cost gets all fucked up. Not just the margin but the accessibility of parts, and cost to being them in. Add in building costs for factories, and the costs associated with running said factory in comparison and that shrinks the profit margin even more.I am just saying that for me, I am willing to spend some more hard earned money on an American product, as long as I know that it is well made, and it fits my needs or wants.JJ, there are none. American products are 90% if not more filled with things from other countries. What you should buy is the best product for your needs for the money you have. Companies then need to react to this. If they don't, they don't deserve to survive. Natural selection will always exist in the business world. IMO the things worth paying for our the ones that don't take advantage labor wise of developing countries. Not saying I am against cheap labor. I sure the fuck don't want to do it.You raise some VERY valid points Sean. I can see where you are coming from, I just hate DIRECTLY sending my money to another contry's company to pay people 2.75 an hour to make a product that costs 15 dollars in materials, takes 25 minutes to make from start to finish, and yet still costs me 375 dollars. Yes I know my example is probably grossly inflated on the figures, but you get the point. I guess American made pride needs to leave for aome areas. Still happy to have the most American made pick up though. J

Sweet sub.

Lets look at this shall we a build house buys a 3k 4k or whatever k board. They put the components on the board that's suppose to make whatever power that its suppose to make. They hook it up to a dummy load with no rise or voltage drop to check to see if it makes the power it suppose to and if it does then it passes their test. Then they sell it to someone like me when we ask for a amplifier to start a company. We get a sample to test for power to see if it will indeed make the power they state. Now whether its with a clamp meter or with a amp dyno or whatever ohm law is ohms law last time I checked. Now using a clamp may not be 100% accurate but it is close enough to give you a idea of if it works or make close to the power it is suppose to. As far as needing any help on testing you are more than welcome to buy one and test it out and post your results. Did you read my post? I didn't offer to test, I offered to help you understand your results in such a way you could make them a useful post instead of one full of misunderstanding. By any and ALL scientific methodology a measurement without determining the uncertainty isn't a valid measurement period. Obviously this isn't something that was understood in your initial post since you shared WAY too many digits after the first.

IT'S A GIRL

"slam HARD!!" well thats great! all the info to recommend a product is right there. Nobody has used a sundown x. So how can we tell you which is better?

No it isn't. You still haven't said what type of enclosure you want to try. And no, 4th order isn't a type of enclosure.

The whole build will determine what subs to get. If you give the info I said you need to give then you will get a better chance of getting your question answered. Btw the X isn't even out so nobody knows if it's actually good or not. But I'm sure it is since it's sundown.

How the hell are we suppose to recommend anything to you when you only tell us what amp and car. We need to know usable space, music you listen to, goals etc.

Build the enclosure for desired response, not system power

BTW, no matter what you do, it will be impossible to thermally blow (with your amp) that SA 10 unless the RMS rating is inflated. So don't worry about that part... You almost get a green light to do whatever you want with bass boost, eq, volume, etc with this combo, above enclosure resonance. It usually isn't like this, lol...

50 watts is enough to get that sub loud in the right box.

it will be fine,.

There is no such thing as underpowering.

We are working on 4 channels and 2 channels I will have some protos of those here in the next few weeks and the we just didn't wanna be like everyone else as far as the names on the amps. Of course the FL is Flatline the BA is our Bad A$$ series the 6.5 and our 10k we just decided to give them some fun names. But I think calling a 10k amp The Boss pretty much matches don't ya think.

Saw them on Facebook. Amps look very good. They even do payments on the larger amps.

That ns-1 would be pretty nice for my zcons

Well, i'm thinking about it right now, I have all the time in the world to decide what to do with it. If you sat in Zach Metts Astro, or Navid's Expedition, you would probably agree with me on this Didn't mean to neg you, small mobile screen FTL. Yeah those vehicles are downright nasty, BP's work when you know what your doing. Yeah, whichever direction I go, Dylan is going to design it. Very excited to have a big build.

Got everything mounted and cables installed. The power wire is not connected yet as the final installer in Seattle will take care of that. They will also mount the cables neatly to the cabinet. I went ahead and put expandable sheaths over everything with heatshrink to clean up the ends. The equipment only sits about 3/16" off the cabinet wall because I countersunk the rubber isolators in so deep. Also, the pig tail that connects to the XLR cable on the car side isn't shown. It is also cover in expandable sheath and looks real nice. All in all she is really clean, looks great. Will be super simple to take in and out. Pictures don't do it justice as usual and my shop is a mess right now...

Back from Line-X. They did a real good job, nice and even. The box is dusty in the pictures, I will get it cleaned up after I finish building all the wiring harnesses for the back and build the short RCA cables... She's all buisness boys...

Assembled and ready for Line-X... The grill is just sitting there on some paint can caps, my hardware order still hasn't shown up. I sprayed 1 gallon of deadener inside. I sprayed it during different stages of assembly, so every internal part is coated, even the inside of the vent on all portions. You can see some of the braces, the vent is also braced, it is actually 2 vents. The box is heavy, but not super heavy. I am glad I dado'd the baffle in, that Mayhem is heavy and will be moving around alot... This box should never come apart... So, I ended up using 1 and 1/2 sheets od MDF, 1 gallon of VBX-1 deadener, 1 pint of polyurethane glue, some bondo and a ton of T10 torx deck screws, maybe about 150. Every joint is screwed heavily. All joints turned out real nice. When the Line-X goes on it will make everything flawless, looking forward to getting it done...

Most of the pieces before assembly... Tough to see on the bottom piece, (the rear piece) but it has all the recesses for the rubber vibration isolators. There are T-nuts behind and the isolators thread in and mount the electronics perfect, about 1/4" off the box...

OK, started cutting some wood today. Got the basic parts done, the bracing will take another 1/2 day or so to cut. I decided on a 1.5" thick baffle that will be dado'd into the top/bottom/sides for extra strength. All wall will be effectively braced and there will also be a large center partition brace. I will also brace the vent. So, here is the baffle being bonded before being cut to size, siting under about 500lbs of Zombie Prep materials: Here is the cabinet just sitting there to get an idea of how it will look. The grill is jst sitting there with some wood shims holding it in place. There is a 1/4" gap around the edge that will be less than 1/8" once the Line-X is sprayed. Also, the grill isn't exactly flat as it isn't bolted down to the stand-offs I am building. To give you an idea of size, that is a 18" x 28" grill. It will sit flush with the front, the baffle will be 2" behind it with the woofer countersunk flush...

I'm curious to see how long it will survive. My zcons ran off one coil each sub one 14k for a week straight and I don't take it easy.

One thing that wont be tolerated in our forum is trolling, negative comments about any company we are not about any of that and it will not be tolerated here. haha. My post was simply a comparison of your responses to Sean and another vendor here. Trolling, a little bit, but you still failed to see the point that Sean was making. This forum is not made up of sheep like most others, so posting irrelevant clamp results from a very unscientific test means very little here. I wish you the best of luck with your business.

Don't mean to upset you at all, haha, trust me, I like what I see so far, and you have handle yourself very well IMO. I'm just saying based off of previous vendors. When comments have been made towards their product, and with the vendor not being able to speak for themselves, they would simply delete comments, even if its just a 400 + 400 question. Moral to the story is, I guess as a vendor hiding away legit comments/responses from customers leaves a bad taste to the viewers.

One thing that wont be tolerated in our forum is trolling, negative comments about any company we are not about any of that and it will not be tolerated here. You are not allowed to delete post on this forum. If members here are trolling, then they will get banned. Comments are comments, wether they are bad or good, no one vendor can "only" have good posts about their product.

Ah, I see my post was deleted...interesting

Like I said there is nothing else to discuss on the topic the results are posted from the test that were done and that is that and once again if you have any other questions about our amplifiers ask away as far as the results are concerned there is nothing else to talk about.

If you understand everything then fix your post. VERY simple. And btw, this isn't about real world versus clamp tests, just about testing methodology and understanding the meaning and results of the test. As I said above, real world it doesn't frickin' matter.

im having a hard time understanding how it makes you go to 4th if its a manual... will it grind into any other gear but 4th?

Lets look at this shall we a build house buys a 3k 4k or whatever k board. They put the components on the board that's suppose to make whatever power that its suppose to make. They hook it up to a dummy load with no rise or voltage drop to check to see if it makes the power it suppose to and if it does then it passes their test. Then they sell it to someone like me when we ask for a amplifier to start a company. We get a sample to test for power to see if it will indeed make the power they state. Now whether its with a clamp meter or with a amp dyno or whatever ohm law is ohms law last time I checked. Now using a clamp may not be 100% accurate but it is close enough to give you a idea of if it works or make close to the power it is suppose to. As far as needing any help on testing you are more than welcome to buy one and test it out and post your results.