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Actually sensitivity and efficiency are well defined and easily calculated with TS parameters independent of manufacturer sensitivity ratings. A manufacturer can try to fudge their sensitivity spec, but as long as you have the TS parameters it is very easy to accurately calculate: Sensitivity (SPL) = 112 + 10*Log(9.64 * 10^(-10) * Fs^3 * Vas / Qes) *Vas in liters

Hope I can maybe get something together for this.

Lucky you live so close.. I go every year.. don't know if i will this time or not yet.. My build had to be put on a 2 month hold because of the weather.

What we are saying is that on paper and according to a software you could have a "perfect" box for what you want, but once its in your car those numbers mean little... Very little.

go with the recommended enclosure spec from SSA. if you have you're limiting dimensions someone could probably design the box for you.

Goals. Equipment. Vehicle. Preferred listening material. Available space. Like, c'mon. Does no one read the rules. One does not simply model for Shits n giggles.

Thru April 15th.

As all have pretty much said. Most drivers intended for pro-sound require large enclosures to make their efficiency shine. Also, this isn't a new idea. There have been a few pro-sound drivers on the block for decades,, that would fit this application. I have used both of them. In the early 90's I did a few pro-audio installs with the McCauley 6174 18" driver. I was highly efficient, had a low Fs and almost 3/4" of one way linear excursion. I also have used the Aura 1808 (and the newer NRT-18) several times over the last few decades. It also was very efficient, had a low Fs and plenty of excursion... Both very low distortion high output drivers... The drawbacks? They were $1000 each, even back in the day, and they needed relatively large enclosures... BUT, if you were in some type of class that limited you to say a single driver of any size and low power, say 500 watts, and you had no enclosure limitations, then these two drivers would be every car audio driver, hands down... But that really doesn't really fit into any classes that I am aware of... Here are the boxes I made for (4) of the Aura 18's almost 10 years ago... They are like 20ft3 each, lol... Also, that is $4k for (4) subs...

Efficiency ratings may peak at 1khz.. you do not know which frequency or range is the most efficient and they won't tell you Because of this, we pay no attention to efficiency alone because without seeing an efficiency graph, the spec is pointless.

I think much of it has to do with how the market has changed. Power is cheap and cheaply built. Along with the average user getting younger and less experienced. So sub woofers have to be built much tougher now then even just 7 years ago. So when you give more power to less experienced users.... efficiency is a thing of the past. Meaning it is not a factor that is part of the decision process anymore. Some of it is just because it is about who has more watts in their car, but much of it is Hoffmans Iron Law. The other two factors are in much higher demand than efficiency right now.

Hmmmm, What do we have here.

You are forgetting acoustics my friend.

You are forgetting acoustics my friend.The post wasn't meant to be entirely technical. But touche. 1w SPL means nothing, though, since all subs react differently to varying amounts of power. Umm, wrong. It means exactly what it is, efficiency is related to output per watt. Doesn't mean manufacturers measure it appropriately for the task at hand. Todd, the answer is really rather simple. Box size & cheap power. PA drivers need a ton of space and while they run with less power, power is cheap so why waste all the space. I have an awesome car audio errr pro audio driver in my basement. The first "beast" subs were pro audio subs that were slightly massaged for car audio applications, but this is when a 1000w amp was rare so you just dealt with the needed box size since it was the best choice.

You are forgetting acoustics my friend. The post wasn't meant to be entirely technical. But touche. 1w SPL means nothing, though, since all subs react differently to varying amounts of power. Umm, wrong. It means exactly what it is, efficiency is related to output per watt. Doesn't mean manufacturers measure it appropriately for the task at hand.Todd, the answer is really rather simple. Box size & cheap power. PA drivers need a ton of space and while they run with less power, power is cheap so why waste all the space. I have an awesome car audio errr pro audio driver in my basement. The first "beast" subs were pro audio subs that were slightly massaged for car audio applications, but this is when a 1000w amp was rare so you just dealt with the needed box size since it was the best choice. Actually, different loudspeakers react differently to different power levels. I'm sure you've heard of power compression. The efficiency rating is nothing more than the output at 1w/1m. It does not always tell how the loudspeaker will perform with more power.

You are forgetting acoustics my friend.The post wasn't meant to be entirely technical. But touche. 1w SPL means nothing, though, since all subs react differently to varying amounts of power. Umm, wrong. It means exactly what it is, efficiency is related to output per watt. Doesn't mean manufacturers measure it appropriately for the task at hand. Todd, the answer is really rather simple. Box size & cheap power. PA drivers need a ton of space and while they run with less power, power is cheap so why waste all the space. I have an awesome car audio errr pro audio driver in my basement. The first "beast" subs were pro audio subs that were slightly massaged for car audio applications, but this is when a 1000w amp was rare so you just dealt with the needed box size since it was the best choice. Actually, different loudspeakers react differently to different power levels. I'm sure you've heard of power compression. The efficiency rating is nothing more than the output at 1w/1m. It does not always tell how the loudspeaker will perform with more power. Nice way to try to spin that lol. Ignore it all you like. I am very aware of power compression.

Umm, wrong. It means exactly what it is, efficiency is related to output per watt. Doesn't mean manufacturers measure it appropriately for the task at hand. Actually, different loudspeakers react differently to different power levels. I'm sure you've heard of power compression. The efficiency rating is nothing more than the output at 1w/1m. It does not always tell how the loudspeaker will perform with more power. Nice way to try to spin that lol. Ignore it all you like. I am very aware of power compression. How am I spinning things around when that is what I said in my original post, when you decided to call me wrong?

All drivers have power compression. That doesn't neglect the efficiency rating.

Different drivers have different degrees of power compression, which can very much make the drivers stray from their efficiency ratings at various power levels. Also, there isn't a well-followed standard behind most manufacturer's efficiency ratings, as was stated earlier in the thread.

Different drivers have different degrees of power compression, which can very much make the drivers stray from their efficiency ratings at various power levels. Also, there isn't a well-followed standard behind most manufacturer's efficiency ratings, as was stated earlier in the thread. my guess is that you can minimize that difference if you compare subs of similar power ratings and/or restrict the applied power to something reasonable. Thermal compression varies with temperature, which is dependant on quite a few factors. Flux compression varies from motor to motor. If you're significantly underpowering both subs, the difference would "probably" be minimal. But, who does that in the car audio world?