FWD was not developed for performance, They where intended for better gas mileage, and better traction (in snow) .

and less maintenance/manufacturing overhead

I just pierced a 14 yr old girls nipples. I am amazed at the things parents let thier kids do.

I just pierced a 14 yr old girls nipples.

I just pierced a 14 yr old girls nipples.

Hey thats what I get paid to do. Not as bad as the 17 yr old that got her pretty kitty pierced a couple weeks ago, and her mom watched.

^

hehe

first time making ice hockey flooring, had to paint goals, and lay down red/blue lines, pretty interesting

IMO, there are only 2 choices in cars. AWD and RWD. Anything else should never be sold in any climate.

X2!!!!!!!!!!

FWD was not developed for performance, They where intended for better gas mileage, and better traction (in snow) .

and less maintenance/manufacturing overhead

Actually THOSE are the only reasons.

Engine placement and driven wheels have nothing to do with mileage. Traction and handling in the snow is ultimately decided upon, most importantly, the tires, and the idiot behind the wheel.

chicken's in the buttermilk, ready for the fryer tomorrow night

FWD was not developed for performance, They where intended for better gas mileage, and better traction (in snow) .

and less maintenance/manufacturing overhead

Actually THOSE are the only reasons.

Engine placement and driven wheels have nothing to do with mileage. Traction and handling in the snow is ultimately decided upon, most importantly, the tires, and the idiot behind the wheel.

the reason FWD gets better gas milage is.......less weight due to less parts.

I will agree knowing how to drive in snow is MOST important factor no matter what you drive.

Just because it's FWD doesn't mean it weighs less and has less parts. There are plenty of FWD vehicles that weigh just as much or more than full frame or unitized vehicles with RWD, 4WD, or AWD.

Also, weight is no guarantee that your mileage will increase.

I know what you are trying to convey, but front drive platforms were only developed simply because they were cheap and effective for the manufacturers.

sup guys, i haven't been on here for a while. workload at school is the biggest right now it ever has been, but life's good, been enjoying myself

looks like i'm keeping the maxima, so all that second skin is going into it this week, and then it's time to start thinking a whole lot more about that new box

looks like i'm keeping the maxima, so all that second skin is going into it this week, and then it's time to start thinking a whole lot more about that new box

You will thank yourself in the future since you were considering a SUV IIRMC, any changes to the equipment or just the enclosure?

Just because it's FWD doesn't mean it weighs less and has less parts. There are plenty of FWD vehicles that weigh just as much or more than full frame or unitized vehicles with RWD, 4WD, or AWD.

Also, weight is no guarantee that your mileage will increase.

I know what you are trying to convey, but front drive platforms were only developed simply because they were cheap and effective for the manufacturers.

This is very true, lOOk at the first Cadillac FWD Eldorado's made back in the late 70's or the Toranado.LOL.

I think the debate started over which was better in the snow??? Each car has it's application in the real world though, I think we have also debated???

sup guys, i haven't been on here for a while. workload at school is the biggest right now it ever has been, but life's good, been enjoying myself

Good to hear from you Brother.

looks like i'm keeping the maxima, so all that second skin is going into it this week, and then it's time to start thinking a whole lot more about that new box

Whats the plan for the new box?

looks like i'm keeping the maxima, so all that second skin is going into it this week, and then it's time to start thinking a whole lot more about that new box

You will thank yourself in the future since you were considering a SUV IIRMC, any changes to the equipment or just the enclosure?

i kinda have things in an order in my head from now until the end of summer

1. second skin

2. new box

3. add another 15" BTL which = new box ofcourse (i'm not going on a class trip to disney so i kinda hinted to my mother that i wouldn't mind being reimbursed with a new sub )(but if not there's always a chance of that being a grad present from grandma)

4. another saz-2000d and dc h/o alt.

that's as of now, #4 is a little less realistic but i think i can definately see me completing 1-3 before the end of summer

looks like i'm keeping the maxima, so all that second skin is going into it this week, and then it's time to start thinking a whole lot more about that new box

Whats the plan for the new box?

i was just going to use the ssa design for the 15" xcon

Are you planning on walling off the Maxima to fit those BTL's in there?

Are you planning on walling off the Maxima to fit those BTL's in there?

no, but if space didn't permit it i'd definately be going to the two 12" xcons. which sounds more sweet everytime i say it.

two icons could work as well but i want the headroom for more power, so xcons would probably be the choice

Just because it's FWD doesn't mean it weighs less and has less parts. There are plenty of FWD vehicles that weigh just as much or more than full frame or unitized vehicles with RWD, 4WD, or AWD.

Also, weight is no guarantee that your mileage will increase.

I know what you are trying to convey, but front drive platforms were only developed simply because they were cheap and effective for the manufacturers.

This is very true, lOOk at the first Cadillac FWD Eldorado's made back in the late 70's or the Toranado.LOL.

I think the debate started over which was better in the snow??? Each car has it's application in the real world though, I think we have also debated???

Cord actually had a FWD vehicle in the 20s. Imagine a cast-iron inline 8 driving the front wheels. Just a little nose-heavy.

The Neighbors BM'er is a 328i, I looked some up this morning, One like this is only 25-30k. BUT they are rear wheel drive witch is a NO-GO for me.

Huh? That is an E46, if you look hard you can find one for $10k. $15k would buy you a very nice one.

Amusing, FWD is a No-Go for me or my wife. No way, no how. I don't need understeer in the snow. I'll take a well balanced RWD ANY day of the week in inclement weather.

Guess I need to look at the badge better.

I will take the getting pulled felling anyday over the getting pushed. I own 3 4wd's and still drive my Honda all winter except for the very worst days. I like how I can over/understeer with the throttle and really turn with the e-brake.

Huh? Why would you EVER want to understeer.

The e-brake will work in any drive format. In a RWD you can turn with the throttle, with front you CANNOT.

I will take the weight over the drive tires anyday.

A fwd turns harder when the steering tires are also pulling, NOT just getting pushed where the weight of the vehicle is getting pushed.

I have never been to MN but I can only imagine it must be pretty flat, because You won't get very far with RWD only here.(the ditch)

Hmm, you really need to open your mind. By FAR the best winter car I have ever driven (outside of snow clearance) was a naturally aspirated Porsche 944. Perfect 25% weight in each corner with a nominal driver. That is ALWAYS the best way to have traction.

Putting the weight over the fronts does not help you turn, nor does it help you stop, it also makes it easier to spin. The ONLY advantage of FWD is the same advantage that 4WD has that puts everyone in the ditch. From a dead stop perhaps you can accelerate faster. To me turning and stopping are MUCH more important in inclement weather.

MN is flat, but not all of MN and RWD doesn't get you in the ditch not knowing how to drive does. Going off the road accelerating is pure operator error, going off because you can't stop or turn isn't. There is no way you can argue that FWD is better for either of those.

Little history piece for you as well. FWD exists as it is cheaper to manufacture and for an average person they don't notice the difference. So some manufacturers choose to save money and compromise on all areas of performance. Others choose to do the opposite and refuse to cut that big ass corner.

You probably drive all automatics too, but that doesn't make them better. I use the gears to slow down on ice and snow, NOT the brake's. A RWD car's ass will slide side ways a soon as the you start up a hill, a FWD will go where the tire's are pulling it. As an example Sean, When I am stuck on a snowmoble, I can have a single person pull a front ski to get me moving and or it would take several people pushing from behind. Simple Physics is the reason for FWD not cost. A FWD or AWD car will handle and corner better than a RWD anyday.

Believe me brother I am the FARTHEST from close minded person you will ever meet, But I do like a good debate.

A FWD corners better? I'm not believing this...

Yeah and you probably think your Caddy is RWD too.LOL

Yea... like totally my caddy is RWD and teh greatest thing ever!

Imagine a cast-iron inline 8 driving the front wheels. Just a little nose-heavy.

just a little

Just because it's FWD doesn't mean it weighs less and has less parts. There are plenty of FWD vehicles that weigh just as much or more than full frame or unitized vehicles with RWD, 4WD, or AWD.

Also, weight is no guarantee that your mileage will increase.

I know what you are trying to convey, but front drive platforms were only developed simply because they were cheap and effective for the manufacturers.

This is very true, lOOk at the first Cadillac FWD Eldorado's made back in the late 70's or the Toranado.LOL.

I think the debate started over which was better in the snow??? Each car has it's application in the real world though, I think we have also debated???

Cord actually had a FWD vehicle in the 20s. Imagine a cast-iron inline 8 driving the front wheels. Just a little nose-heavy.

It was probably proportioned the same as my Cadillac... Just tack on 3,000lb on the total weight.