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The amount of magnets have nothing to do with the "flux field". It is mostlty the gap/magnetic circuit (steel) part. More magnets are used for clearance, and a little (like more than exponetially dropping benefits) more flux, but again, not much. They are much cheaper than high flux steel, that is why you see 2, sometimes 3 or 4 stacked. It is lot cheaper to stack 3" of magnet than machine a 3" thick top plate. Lots of magnets also sell better, lol... All XBL2 subs are not bottomless designs, this varies from sub to sub and has nothing to due with "XBL2", it has to due with voicecoil clearance. Every XBL2 sub I have owned (a shit load) will reach mechanical limits, just not always the rear of the voicecoil former. I have shredded 4 tumults from the triple joint smacking the top plate, this is not bottomless. XBL2 reaps the benefits of a flat BL curve similar to an underhung motor. I personally think it performs better than underhung within the price range. But XBL2 also uses a shorter coil with less surface area and has lower thermal limits than similar overhung motors, but it does this with much less Le, which is a good thing.. The early XBL2 subs were low end monsters, but this really was primarily due to a really well suited set of T/s parameters for this. They had tons of clean linear stroke (1" more 1-way) low Fs and a mid Q. Add that all up and you get a sub that eats on the bottom, XBL2 helped keep the distortion low within the excursions limits. The lack of "high end" was usually due to the exxagerated low end and the fault of the end user.... Shorting rings and farady loops aren't fads, they have been used succesfully for many (like 20-30) years to lower Le....

Seriously, you want to throw 1000w or better yet 2000w on a 300w entry level sub. Do you even need to ask that question?

"SQ" competitions don't really mean much. A subjective score, included of which is "presentation" and some scale of how pretty the install is. I put very little stock in SQ competitions. What matters in the end is how it sounds to the end user. Building and setting up the system to the preference of judges is not really sound quality. Just saying.

I just started on the new design for my build. There's a few new details like new stainless accents, completely new enclosure design, and a new Mechman H/O alternator. Here's a few pix of what I've done so far: New bracket to hold the inline fuse under the hood. (10ga. 304 stainless steel) New front battery top strap. (10ga. 304 stainless steel) This could only mean one thing............. Common chamber for 2~15" Icon D1 - 8cf. @ 27hz I'll keep chugging away (weather permitting) and snappin' pix as I go. It's supposed to rain all weekend here so very little will happen in the next few days. The alternator should be here next week sometime.

What is sensitivity? The sensitivity of a driver is typically defined as the sound pressure level of the loudspeaker given 1 watt of power input, measured at a distance of 1 meter, measured on-axis with the loudspeaker and measured in infinite space with the loudspeaker mounted to an infinite baffle. While the later part is typically assumed but not stated, the former part is the reason you generally see “1w/1m” or “2.83V/1m” stated along with the sensitivity specification. But wait, is 1w/1m equal to 2.83V/1m? The answer is only for an 8ohm impedance driver. We know this because of ohms law, where Power = Voltage^2/Resistance. If the load is anything other than 8ohm then the resulting sensitivity rating will not be a 1w measurement! If the driver is 4ohm and the measurement is a 2.83V measurement, we can find the amount of power input with the formula 2.83^2/4 = 2w. This means that sensitivity will be overstated by 3db compared to a true 1w measurement. I have seen many unscrupulous companies take a dual 2ohm/coil subwoofer, wire the coils in parallel and then rate sensitivity at 2.83V, overstating sensitivity by 9db! Due to these and other variations in rating methods and some manufacturers not even stating a method, it can often be difficult to directly compare one subwoofer’s sensitivity to another’s. However, if you are able to obtain the Thiele-Small parameters for the subwoofer there is one surefire way to calculate an accurate sensitivity measurement for a driver. And that is with the following formulas; Efficiency (N0) = 9.64 * 10^(-10) * Fs^3 * Vas / Qes *To express as a percent, multiply by 100 *Vas in liters Sensitivity (SPL) = 112 + 10*Log(N0) The Efficiency (N0) calculation expresses, typically as a percentage, the amount of power input that is converted to acoustic power. With the sensitivity calculation we can convert the efficiency of the driver to a 1w/1m sensitivity rating. As long as the T/S parameters are accurate, utilizing this formula will put any two drivers on a level playing field and allow you to directly and accurately compare sensitivity (or efficiency) between drivers. Okay, but higher is still better because higher means it’s louder, right? Not necessarily the case. There are a few issues here that need to be discussed to better understand why. From a driver design perspective, we can see from the above formulas that there are two ways in which to increase sensitivity for a given driver diameter; increasing Fs or decreasing Qes (or both). Adjusting either of these two parameters, however, is ultimately going to affect how the driver responds in a given enclosure. And this relationship, as it relates to enclosure size, sensitivity and low frequency extension, has been defined through a rule known as Hoffman’s Iron Law. As you can see from the link (which I highly suggest you read), it’s already been covered in relative detail elsewhere on the site. But it’s important to us here, so it’s worth touching on again. In short, Hoffmans Iron Law states that we can only have two of the following three; Low frequency extensionSmall enclosureHigh sensitivity What’s important to take away from this is that if you want high sensitivity and a small enclosure, you will necessarily sacrifice low frequency extension. Or, conversely, if you desire extended low frequency output from a small enclosure, you must necessarily sacrifice sensitivity. While a given driver may have a higher rated sensitivity, that driver may actually have less output in the subbass region once the effects of the enclosure are taken into consideration since it may begin it’s rolloff at a higher frequency. And given in car audio we typically require reasonable enclosure volumes, having a high sensitivity can actually be disadvantageous. The second factor we need to consider is how output is achieved. Sensitivity isn’t what determines maximum output. Output is a function of air displacement. The maximum amount of linear displacement (Vd) you can achieve is limited by your cone area (Sd) and linear excursion (Xmax). As you increase the amount of displacement at your disposal, you increase the potential linear output you can achieve. Even though a driver may have a higher sensitivity, if it’s maximum linear displacement (Vd) is less than that of a driver with a lower sensitivity, the lower sensitivity driver will have the potential for higher levels of output. We also have to consider the effects of Power Compression (and I again urge you to read the link). Consider the effects of power compression applied to our scenario. A higher sensitivity driver may, for example, begin to experience more power compression at a lower output level than a lower sensitivity driver. If this is the case, then as output is increased beyond that level the higher sensitivity driver would gain less output for each increase in power and experience more parameter shift. The basic summary is that after many factors are taken into consideration, it is impossible to state unilaterally that higher sensitivity drivers will better than lower sensitivity drivers. Generally choosing one driver over another based on sensitivity alone is a bad path to follow. Sensitivity is just one of a multitude of parameters that all conspire together to define the performance of a loudspeaker. And in my humble opinion, it is one of the less important factors to consider. As with anything, there are compromises to be made and it's necessary to find the best set of compromises for your particular situation.

Shorting/Faraday rings are completely separate and independent of XBL. XBL is a dual gap technology, created by adding a notch in the top plate and pole piece. Shorting/Faraday rings are copper or aluminum "rings" placed strategically throughout the motor. An XBL motor may have Faraday rings in them, but that's not what makes it an XBL motor. A non-XBL motor may also use Faraday rings (and many of them do).

I think the reason that most people were all over the XBL drives is because they were such "low end monsters" which is not 100% true. Yes they dropped low but the reason that most people thought of them as low end monsters is because they lacked top end output. The XBL technology is truly best used in mids and tweeters. Dan holds the patent and if you want to have subs that use XBL: ADI will design them for you and have them built in one of the overseas build houses they use. Andrew

I had two 12" SSDs on a 2600-watt Hifonics brutus amp (obviously getting less than rated wattage, also voltage dropped a lot) and I blew one. After reconing that sub, my other sub literally set fire because it got so hot. So definitely be careful with your gain setting.

13,003 members SSA has been by far the best forum for me, I read topic after topic in multiple forums and found so much contradiction, flame wars, and misinformation. Then I found SSA and was like holy s***. Not only is ssa an awesome company that makes awesome products, but they offer this forum for their own competition. SSA=Best Community

I know the prices were MSRP and most times those prices are inflated. I'm not knocking the products whatsoever. I just thought the MSRP was quite high. I will let my ears make the final decision before I buy a product.

Everything.

Agreed on the RD

Well I got about an hour and a half to work on this until Here's a few pix I snapped before the rain came.

word ssa is the coolest forum i been to....... every other one ive been on everyone is a dick. termlab was the only one halfway decent until i found this forum.....other than a little sarcasm everyone is great and has givin me all the help i've ask'd for hell i check the updates about 5 times a day on here sometimes more if the ol' lady and bitchin

Here is a link to a video I made of my xcon flexing my hatch. There was more but my cameras sd card went corrupt i'll make more later.

Depends on too many factors. Read the links in my signature please.

No, you get real. You've had your warnings, and now you're banned for 3-days.

the driver allows you to tune lower, the box would be most important in this case. Yes, but in reference to what he's asking, it's not driver specific. yeah but you mentioned install and vehicle will determine everything which is of course false information. the box would be more important than any of those in terms of hittin lows. The enclosure is part of the install, no? nope. the enclosure is the enclosure. do you just install the box, no you design it and then build it. it would be part of an install if it was a premade box. And how is the box not part of the actual install ? Are you towing the box behind the vehicle ? You have some very skewed ideas.... so your saying nothing is specific....... everything that goes in is called an install. so it doesnt matter what sub, electrical, amp, box, tuning is all generalized by install because they are all being installed. lol Stealth, in general your opinion doesn't matter, at all. You've been consistently wrong on the MOST basic ideas. I think (and im not the only one) you need to stop being the know it all arseho (with indeed the wrong information) and listen for a change. The enclosure is part of the install, the peak frequency of your car changes everything, example; my box was tuned to 32hz i peaked at 38hz. simple You sir, are an idiot.

Nothing is driver specific. Install, and vehicle used will determine everything. IMO.

Seal the woofer. Turn the SSF up. Only two options other than "don't play those songs".

Do you think it's kosher if we post up there? I mean, to set up shop with a lot of people and grill and all that? Screw them dude, Meade is a tool and so are the other limpdicks over there at those forums. Are they hot, single, and over 18?

I had the X's as well and i like the Icon way more. Comparable output but much much better sound quality. and it's cheaper

By "SSD" do you mean the Fi SSD or SSA as in Sound Solutions Audio? If the Fi SSD, it's not really what you want if your goal is volume. Not saying that they couldn't get loud, but the BTL or BL is more what you'd want. If SSA, then I'd say XCON, but since you really don't care about SQ then I'd look somewhere else. Not saying the XCONs can't shake the crud out of your car, but I think you'd be happier with a BTL than an XCON. Ascendant look at them Mayhem or Havoc.

Xsus = suspension limited linear excursion Xmag = motor limited linear excursion Xmax = lesser of Xsus and Xmag Xmech = mechanically limited excursion (without regard to linearity). Generally if you exceed Xmech, shit starts breaking It doesn't, really. Vas is the volume of air that when compressed to 1m^3 exhibits the same compliance as the suspension of the driver. Otherwise described as "equivalent air compliance". It's basically just another way of expressing the compliance of the driver's suspension. Larger Vas = looser suspension, smaller Vas = tighter suspension. It's most useful in determining enclosure volumes. For example, the formula for determining the enclosure size for a given sealed enclosure alignment is; Vb = Vas/([Qtc/Qts]^2-1) Basic mathematics.....since Vas is the numerator, as Vas increases the required enclosure volume (Vb) for a given alignment (Qtc) will also increase (assuming Qts stays the same).

There's much more to it than that. First, cone area and Xmax are multiplied to arrive at a parameter known as Vd, or volume displacement. This is the amount of linear air displacement the driver is capable of achieving. The higher the Vd, the higher linear output capabilities the driver has as a larger Vd means the driver is capable of displacing more air. Second, don't confuse Xmax with excursion. They are different. Excursion is how far the cone is physically moving. Xmax is the maximum amount of linear excursion the driver is capable of achieving. Excursion is the amount of movement, Xmax is the limit of how much of that movement is "linear". Generally a driver operating at Xmax will have ~10% THD. This is typically the highest amount of acceptable performance. As you exceed Xmax it's generally considered that the distortion performance would be at an unacceptable level (among other things). In sealed enclosures, Vd is one of the important factors along with alignment and the driver's parameters in determining output capabilities. All things equal, the driver with the higher Vd will have higher output. In reality, things are never equal. So you have to look at the response of the driver in a given alignment along with your environment and available power. Having a higher Vd isn't any good if you don't have the requisite power to reach Xmax or if the driver is in an alignment that begins to roll off at a high frequency. Having a higher Vd is only a capability of higher output; whether or not you will be able to realize that higher output is dependent upon several other factors. In terms of low frequency performance, you're required to increase displacement by a factor of 4 in order to maintain a given SPL level one octave lower in frequency. This means that you need to displace 4x the air at 25hz as you do at 50hz to maintain the same SPL level at both frequencies. You can see how having a higher Xmax could be beneficial as displacement requirements increase substantially in lower frequencies. In the low frequencies Vd can be very important as it can very much limit how much linear output your system will be able to achieve. Luckily in car audio we have substantial cabin gain in the low frequencies as well, so we can maintain SPL levels at lower frequencies without having to quadruple our displacement. A 12db gain at 25hz compared to 50hz, for example, is equivalent to quadrupling your displacement. So if you have a 12db gain at 25hz compared to 50hz in your vehicle, you've already accomplished the feat. Generally you want the most cone area you can reasonably place within your space, environment and enclosure requirements. Why? A driver with a larger cone area will displace a greater amount of air for a given excursion level. This means that it takes less excursion to reach a given SPL level with more cone area. This, in turn, means that the driver(s) would ideally be operating further within it's linear range at that SPL level which, ideally, reduces distortion. This ofcourse assumes the drivers are of similar distortion performance as distortion performance will vary based on driver designs. For example, one driver may still have less distortion at 15mm than another more poorly designed driver (from a distortion perspective) driver operating at 10mm. The reason Xmax "doesn't matter" for SPL is because 1) the subwoofers are generally "burped" near tuning where excursion is minimized and 2) Xmax is a linear parameter....people competing in SPL don't really care about having higher distortion due to possibly exceeding Xmax. But that doesn't mean Xmax is not important in ported enclosures. Xmax is not a limitation on how far the driver can physically move , only on how much of that movement is linear. Also, going back to what we said about power and alignment; Xmax does not tell you how much excursion you will have in your alignment with your power. And that is what ultimately determines how much output you will have from the enclosure, any enclosure. Vd is still "important" in ported enclosure as it still helps determine which driver has the capability for higher linear output, but you have to look at your power and alignment to determine which will ultimately have higher excursion, and hence output, in use. In a ported enclosure generally enclosure size and tuning are going to have a significant impact on low frequency response and excursion with regards to frequency; but that doesn't make Xmax irrelevant for daily listening. About a half octave above tuning, the enclosure will behave similarly to a sealed enclosure meaning excursion will increase to a point that is similar to that of a sealed enclosure. Xmax may become important in this region where it's possible to reach or exceed the Xmax of the driver. That post feels like it was one giant ramble.....hopefully it makes sense.

X2 on the massive amount of research you should do! two speakers will have more cone area, dissipate heat better. but they will take up more room, it sounds like you have enough of that to spare. between fi and audioque i would go fi. if youre going two subs i would go bl, just to be easier on your electrical and such. of course one of either of fi's subs will be lotsa' bass (even the SSD if you haven't looked at that) there are plenty of quality brands out there, just do some more searching. (check out SSA ! ) i would buy quality>quantity, and i dont think i would buy any qudioque stuff. but thats just me for some unknown reason maybe just a new box will fix your problem, but i've heard two 12" KFCs and wasnt impressed at all lol (in a pre-fab box though) i hope you get at least something out of this post lol

i dont believe for one second you went that fast in an evo

193 in my friends prius.

id shoot for closer to 2000...since they are only rated for 600.

Its funny that I have played with the SSD, Q, BL alittle bit, and the BTL as well as the AQ SDC2.5 and HDC3. I like them all. lol. Different strokes and different costs. And if the AQ subs didn't have sound quality then why is one of the featured competitor on their site placed 3rd or higher in over 20 sound quality comps? Just saying. If you really want to go all out loud, get either the HDC3 or the BTL and an AP30001D amp. But don't forget upgrade alt and battery. If you have a budget then sure name your budget.

sorry. I was just wanting to know from everyone that owns a xcon what songs they think sound good. not from everyone who doesn't own a xcon.

the driver allows you to tune lower, the box would be most important in this case.

op, im sure youll like ssaudios song "how low". a few others are i love your girl soul survivor blueberry yum yum. try those and let me know if you need more.

It's definitely not a fad. You will also find similar speakers with this tech labeled with "shorting rings" or "Farraday rings." As already touched upon, Dan Wiggins owns the "XBL" term. (As a side note, you guys remember the flashlights that were all the rage a couple years ago, the ones you shook up then used? Those are principally Farraday "motors" since the "coil" is shifted in the "magnetic gap" and can't leave it like a conventional coil can.) In layman's terms...have you ever bottomed out a sub or heard one bottom? It's not pleasant and not good for it. XBLs can't bottom out. Theoretically, you can beat the hell out of them with a ton of power without damage. They're not popular due to the XBL trademark, also because people would rather brag about putting 3000 watts into a 10. That's my opinion on the second part so like it or hate it, there it is

the driver allows you to tune lower, the box would be most important in this case. Yes, but in reference to what he's asking, it's not driver specific. yeah but you mentioned install and vehicle will determine everything which is of course false information. the box would be more important than any of those in terms of hittin lows.

the driver allows you to tune lower, the box would be most important in this case. Yes, but in reference to what he's asking, it's not driver specific. yeah but you mentioned install and vehicle will determine everything which is of course false information. the box would be more important than any of those in terms of hittin lows. The enclosure is part of the install, no? nope. the enclosure is the enclosure. do you just install the box, no you design it and then build it. it would be part of an install if it was a premade box.

the driver allows you to tune lower, the box would be most important in this case. Yes, but in reference to what he's asking, it's not driver specific. yeah but you mentioned install and vehicle will determine everything which is of course false information. the box would be more important than any of those in terms of hittin lows. The enclosure is part of the install, no? nope. the enclosure is the enclosure. do you just install the box, no you design it and then build it. it would be part of an install if it was a premade box. And how is the box not part of the actual install ? Are you towing the box behind the vehicle ? You have some very skewed ideas.... so your saying nothing is specific....... everything that goes in is called an install. so it doesnt matter what sub, electrical, amp, box, tuning is all generalized by install because they are all being installed. lol

Don't like the box looks too busy imo

no, so you are saying the box is just part of the install? so what about tuning? or is that just part of installing it? what dumbasses you guys are. im one of the only ones here that actually tried to help the OP and all you fags are just jagging on his thread talking shit. and john holmes this whole time? fukka you only been here for like 2 days. get real