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I dropped the ball. Not even sure how. It's happened a few times that an incoming message gets marked read before I reply or the system hangs while I have a message open. Sorry about that. I responded to the original message so Phil and I should be able to pick this up. It's usually safe to assume that if I don't respond in a day or two, something is up. I'm a little concerned about this: "these xcons are doing some work on my car." There are two things I can think of that this might mean. The first is that the subs are exciting panel resonance that needs to be controlled. Vibration damper may be a good solution for this. The second is that this is an SPL setup and the XCONs are tearing the vehicle apart. In that case, traditional sound deadening techniques are probably a poor fit. Using vibration damper to structurally reinforce sheet metal is much less effective than other approaches and is likely to have a negative impact on scores since the mechanism of vibration damping - converting vibration (which can become sound) into heat (which can't) is taking things in the wrong direction. In any case, I screwed up and it shouldn't have happened.

Sundown SAX-200.4 - DIYMA.com -----

Two main options, get step-downs to step-down the voltage to all of your 12v accessories, or run a stock and externally regulated output alternator, as said above since your running at a higher voltage there is less current pulled and more watts produced. In most cAses lArger amplifiers like the saz- series from sundown will run to 18v BUT most normal multichannel amps are around 15v max.

For high power systems, higher voltages are desirable. I say this because on at 12v system a 5000 watt amplifier at 1 ohm requires more current to produce 5000 watts rms than a 16v system would due to the bump up in voltage. You do not want your car to be at these high voltages however, because a 16 v system needs to be charging at around 18v. The computers in my car would fry (most likely), as I assume most other newer cars would. Like others have said, either dual alts or a step down transformer are required in order to have a 16v system for your audio. If you are doing a daily setup with a crazy amount of power I would go the 16v route, but make sure to do it properly.

What size fuse would you guys recomend? You have 0 gauge wire so I would use a 250-300 amp fuse.

New cars are designed to absorb impacts, it's much better to have the vehicle take the impact and crush like an aluminum can than to have an old all steel and iron car transfer energy and instead your head is crushed like an aluminum can.

It is when things like this get posted that makes others believe you don't really know what you are asking. Don't take it the wrong way, but the terminology has nothing to do with this forum. You have some guys on here who have been at this a while. I've got over 20 years under my belt building loudspeakers, amplifiers etc.... We are here to help, don't get all bent out of shape. Think about what you are asking before you type and try and phrase your questions so you get objective answers...

You are correct in what to wire, except I would run the engine ground to the battery but I think it should work either way Leave your existing wires. I fuse the alternator to battery wire, it is there to protect the wire. It is not necessarily needed. Soldering is pretty easy. It helps if you have a vise or something that can help hold the wire so you can work with both hands. Heat up the wire terminal with your soldering iron and take the solder and place it on the wire and watch it melt into the wire. This is your first time so practice on some scrap wire first. Me personally, I use a small torch because it is faster and easier to me to melt the solder into the wire. Good luck

A fuse on the power wire is not nessecary, but is cheap insurance. I found the easiest way to soilder was to crimp the terminial first then soilder with a torch, don't forget the flux. I would run the engine ground to the battery. Definetly leave the factory wires in place.

Wow, you need to relax. Sean was saying to be more descriptive with your goals, and that we have taken the time to provide new member guidelines. These topics are in place to make questions or topics far more effective. In no way is anyone saying that anyone else needs to pick all out SQ or all out SPL. It is not about wrong terminology, it is about using a better narrative and not being trapped by generic terms that does not help the goal of the install. No one attacked you, only thing people did was try to get better background information to help contribute more effectively, and that is what is different about SSA, and why this place is far superior to most every other forum. If you took a moment to look around, of the member base, VERY few are actual competitors. Most everyone cares about great sound and performance in their car for their ears. I personally could not give two cents about what judges think, as I am against putting effort into anything that is subjectively judged when it comes to competition in anyway. Next, if you had taken the time to look around, you would have seen that many of the senior members on here are on the staff or are considered senior members because THEY have tackled things such as complicated theory, construction and many different design processes. We have dedicated staff members for higher level questions and challenges, we have dedicated sections for technical and advanced topics. It is very well organized and very good information that is extremely accessible. There are not pissing wars here, you have the wrong site. If you think CACO is where you need to go, you have some serious questions to ask yourself. That site, the staff, the host, the lay out, and so on fails hard with a vengeance, anyone that has a clue in the audio forum world knows that it, along with a few others, sits at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to a quality forum that can be a resource. Calm the hell down, get your goals and priorities in order. If not, go hang out on a site that is counterintuitive, not beneficial and filled with kiddies that have minimal experience.

Grilles Ya'll know what these are The X-overs are BIG and HEAVY Both Internals These are also very heavy for their size. A ton of mounting options.

me = almost 2k. Gonna throw myself a party!

the box is small, it is like 18x18x18, a cube. loud though, and my amp is set to bridge mono on lowpass mode crossed as 59hz. the dayton site has no box dementions, and im pretty shure the clip indicator is good because i hear no audible distortion untill the clip indicator is pretty much solid. under that its very clean. You'd be lucky to hear 10% distortion on a sub and no the clip indicators aren't good. So far you are heading for disaster if you keep on your route. On top of that it is a clever way to make a nice sounding sub sound like hell. Try a new box and be careful with it.

VERY well put!! Now, for this particular question we have done a lot of testing so we have a good bit of experience.. That said, a 180 amp alternator in this car is going to give him about 120 "usable" amps over what he normally has, and with a couple of "good" batteries he should have plenty of adequate power under normal circumstances. The main thing to consider with a big amp like the 3500, is how is it going to be used. Is it in a daily driver that just bumps alot driving around, or is a comp vehicle. Kyles 3500 never pulled more than about ~100 amps at .5 on music at say 3/4 volume. On tones at .5 at high volumes, it may touch 180 BRIEFLY. In hours of testing, we NEVER saw over 200 AFTER we put a 270XP with a 15.1v regulator in it no matter how hard we pounded on it. Remember, music is dynamic and even though you may have a 3500W "RMS" amp, your dynamic load of the amp will almost NEVER exceed 70% of its rated power. If you calculate it to the letter for power consumption, 3500/15 15= 233 amps. 233/.8 (effiency) = 290 amp max power input required to make an actual 3500w of output power. Now, take 290*.6 (dynamic avg MAX current requirement on music) 174 Amps, which is the absolute MAX necessary for 3500 actual produced watts, which you will only see MAYBE 25% of the time. Will a bigger alt power it better, absolutely, no question about it. Will a 180 amp alt power it ok 90% of the time, no question... I'm trying to make sense of these numbers... I blew a 350 amp fuse with a 3000D at .5, at full tilt with 4 yellow tops the power wire from my alt was clamped putting out 170 amps of current and I still had voltage drop into the 11's on the amp inputs.... not doubting, just seeking information crazy...i ran a 200amp fuse with the same amp and nominal load AND voltage, and never blew the fuse{never have}. that was on a 75 amp stock alt and one 100ah batt awhile back. i now have an h/o alt and 2 of the batts and dont go lower then 12s now, still on that same fuse haha Not all fuses are created equal, and I'd put money on you having a higher impedance rise.

IMO far too many folks just toss it in, go with it and complain that it sounds like s@#%. Just as you said, it's not plug and play, you have to work to make it sound good. And from the reviews that you have been getting, it sounds like you put in the time and effort to get your system to sound good. I (We - Team Blues/LP) say the same thing about the Blues drivers as you do the Xcons, if more people heard them, they would love them. With that being said, the folks that have heard them are turned into belivers. Just ask Mark about the demos he got of Ray's Escape and my truck in Vegas. He put a review post up over on CA-F The Blues drivers can win trophies at SQ contests, but are really for folks that love music, and want to play it loud. Just not as loud as yours. Don't want to hi-jack your thread, so back on topic. Truck looks great, system looks great, hope I get to hear it at Scrapin' the Coast. John

i came across this article about bass and thought it was a good read, and has some good test tones... http://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=162:sound-reasoning-assessing-bass-performance&catid=69:sound-reasoning&Itemid=5

no and then! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7luMp6lb9M

Figured I'd add this... This really has got to be one of my favorite ground pounders I've heard yet. I actually think I've found what I want my next setup to sound like. The Xcon's sounded great, not like I expected anything less. Really a great sub, I knew first time I seen em they was going to be awesome. Good job SSA! I really like the mids/highs. I didn't think that type of setup was for me, but after listening to it, I really have changed my mind. Great all around setup. Now time for me to start figuring out how I can get something like it.

I'd double baffle a lightweight 8" driver, but if you don't mind coloration go ahead and ignore dead box building techniques and use some thin shit.

Finally got some components to replace my worn out stock speakers. i have been putting this off for soooooooo long. Went into my buddies stereo shop and he demo'd the Focals, fell in love. you dont know how crappy your stereo sounds until you hear something better, after i left the store i looked at my system with disgust lol. i never knew i was missing so much out of my front stage. to stock. They barely fit in the door too, had to space the window track out some. I swear it took forever to decide where to install the tweeter at. but i'm happy i found a good spot for them that sounds great. had to put the crossover in the door pocket, they dont rattle around and that is the only spot i could think where to put them for the time being... Soon to come is probably a sundown amp to power them and to seal off the doors. i should have done it while i installed but i want to see how they are over stock, then sound deaden the door and see the results, then amp them. i could do it all at once but you wont gain any experience from doing that still sounds amazing compared to the crap i was listening to. i had the sound stage coming from the back speakers for the longest time best part is i got them for $560 out the door, buddy gave me a employee discount

It is still never. What happens is, they change something else that they didn't take into consideration, like airflow....

Any panel resonance ("flex") at all defeats SPL. You can never predict nor really control the phase differences between the panel and system. All flex is bad.

As efficient as they might be in a large sealed box, a proper ported box will be that much more efficient. At low freqs the ported enclosure will KILL the large sealed one. Power handling becomes a moot point as well. The ported enclosure will keep the cones well under control.