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I will simply reply that the SX10 is not the same thing, sorry. The Icon motor is machined here in the USA with spiral axis cooling with USA steel. The SX cannot remotely say that. That alone is more than enough difference as to why the Icon costs more and is the better choice. RE is a cheaply built overseas copy of what it used to be. Now if you said original Icon from 2007 and old special order USA made RE SX Hybrid, then you are closer.BUT!!!! That is off topic, back to the originally asked X10 / SA-8's on the same power. As I have not heard them head to head, it is difficult to give an experienced reply, doubt many outside of the Sundown HQ has tested the SA-8 head to head on the X10 since the X series is so new. Anyway, all things equal in proper enclosures, I personally will pick the option of more cone area and less power compression, meaning in this case the pair of SA-8's. Because even though the coil in the SA is smaller than the coil in the X, it is still the combined coil surface and cooling of the motors, and even though an X10 has more area than a single SA8, the pair of SA8's combined have more swept cone area. So to stay on topic and give an educated guess on the initial question at hand, I would lean towards the SA-8's.

Found this guide on another forum, and given the slew of recent threads on troubleshooting noise, thought I would post it here. One word of warning is that some HU's and/or processors nowadays have a zero bit mute, which essentially cuts off the output during low signal passages to reduce noise.....so be aware if this is a feature your unit has. Onward to the guide; How can you eliminate alternator whine in a car audio system? If you have alternator whine in a car audio system and want to get rid of it, there is only one sure-fire way to do it. David Navone and Richard Clark from Autosound 2000 in the USA developed the following step-by-step instructions. If you follow the instructions EXACTLY, you are guaranteed to trace and eliminate the noise in your car audio system. Don’t miss a step and don’t assume that something is OK without checking it. Each time you check for noise, you should do it with the engine running at 1500 to 2000 rpm and the headlights on full beam so that the alternator will be charging. The tests with the CD player connected should be done with a ‘zero bit’ track playing and the volume at maximum. Set your CD player to ‘repeat’ if it has that feature. Safety. Make sure when doing noise tests that the parking brake is on and working, and that the vehicle is in neutral or ‘park’. Perform these tests in an area with good ventilation or use an extension hose on the exhaust to route the fumes outside. Step 1. Check the Amplifiers 1a. Unplug the RCA cables from the amplifier/s and mute the signal at the input by using shorting plugs. This will isolate the amplifier from the rest of the car stereo installation. You can make shorting plugs by taking cheap male RCA plugs and soldering the centre and outer terminals together. This shorts out the input of the amplifier/s to ensure that it has zero signal. Has the noise gone? Yes. Go straight to Step 2. Reduce The System. No. Go to 1b. 1b. Disconnect the speakers from the amp and connect a pair of test speakers to it. Make sure the test speakers are not in contact with the car body. The purpose of this step is to ensure proper isolation of the speakers and the speaker leads from the car's chassis. Has the noise gone? Yes. Check speakers, speaker leads and passive crossovers for proper isolation from the car's chassis. Shift passive crossovers to a location away from power cables and the car’s body. No. Go to 1c. 1c. Isolate the amplifier from the chassis of the car. There must not be any electrical contact between the car's chassis and the amplifier, except for the grounding point. Has the noise gone? Yes. Reinstall the amplifier isolated from the chassis of the car. Make sure that the amplifier is grounded in just one point. No. Go to 1d. 1d. Supply the amplifier with an isolated power source, for example an external car battery or a 12-Volt DC power supply. Has the noise gone? Yes. Noise is entering the amplifier via the power supply, try changing the grounding point and add external power supply filtering. Consider changing the amplifier. No. The amplifier has some severe problems, is totally isolated and still noisy. Replace it or have it repaired. That is the end of Step 1. You have now either eliminated the amplifier and speakers as a problem or you have replaced a faulty amplifier. Now you can go on to Step 2. Step 2. Reduce the System. 2a. The amplifier is known to be OK. It is now time to disconnect any signal processors (equaliser, electronic crossover, etc.) and connect the signal from the output of the head unit directly into the input of the amplifier. Has the noise gone? Yes. The noise source must be either one or more of the processors or possibly the signal route. Go to Step 3. ‘Add Signal Processors’. If you didn’t have any signal processors and you are using the signal cable in its normal, installed route then the problem is solved. No. Go to 2b. 2b. Run new signal cables over a new route between the head unit and the amplifier. Has the noise gone? Yes. Permanently route the signal cables in the new route. Go to Step 3. ‘Add Signal Processors’. If you don’t have any signal processors then your problem is solved. No. Go to 2c. 2c. Isolate the case of the head unit from car's chassis. There must not be any electrical contact between the head unit and car chassis except for a single grounding point. Beware of antenna grounds and pullout cases! Has the noise gone? Yes. Reinstall the head unit isolated from the car's chassis and any other metal parts in the dash. Ground the head unit at one point. Go to Step 3. ‘Add Signal Processors’. If you don’t have any signal processors then your problem is solved. No. Go to 2d. 2d. Move the head unit ground to a quieter grounding point. Test a number of points and also try grounding the head unit to the same point as the amplifier. Has the noise gone? Yes. Reinstall the head unit using the quiet grounding point. Go to Step 3. ‘Add Signal Processors’. If you don’t have any signal processors then your problem is solved. No. Go to 2e. 2e. Move the head unit as near to the amplifier as possible. Then connect output of the head unit to the amplifier with the shortest possible RCA cables. Has the noise gone? Yes. Reinstall the head unit one step at a time. Check for noise after each step during the reinstallation. Once you have the head unit installed, noise free go to Step 3. ‘Add Signal Processors’. If you don’t have any signal processors then your problem is solved. No. Go to 2f. 2f. Supply the head unit with an isolated power source, for example an external car battery or a 12 VDC power supply. Make sure that car chassis is not in contact with the head unit. Has the noise gone? Yes. The head unit is sensitive to noise in the supply voltage. Add power supply filtering to the supply voltage for the head unit or use an isolated power supply. You may be better to change the head unit. Once you have a head unit installed noise free, go to Step 3. ‘Add Signal Processors’. If you don’t have any signal processors then your problem is solved. No. There is a serious problem with the head unit. Go to Step 4 'Check the Vehicle' and/or change the head unit. Step 3. Add Signal Processors. At this level the amplifier is known to be good. The car's electrical system is OK and the reinstalled head unit is working fine when connected directly to the amplifier. 3a. Connect one of the Processors back into the signal path. Has the noise gone? Yes. Go to 3a for the next processor. If there are no more processors, the problem is solved. No. Go to 3b. 3b. Run new signal cables over a new route between the Head-unit and processor and between the Processor and the amplifier. Has the noise gone? Yes. Permanently route the cables on the new quiet path. Go to 3a for the next processor. If there are no more processors, the problem is solved. No. Go to 3c. 3c. Isolate the processor from the car's chassis except for a single grounding point. Connect the processor ground to the same grounding point as the head unit. Has the noise gone? Yes. Provide isolation between the Processor and the car's chassis and permanently route the cables on the known quiet path. Go to 3a for the next processor. If there are no more processors, the problem is solved. No. Go to 3d. 3d. Since new cables and re-grounding does not help, it is time to relocate the processor very near the amplifier. Connect the output of the processor to the amplifier with the shortest possible RCA cables. Has the noise gone? Yes. Reinstall the Processor one step at a time. Check for noise after each step in the reinstallation. Be careful when routing the signal cables. Remember that the car's chassis is a conductor. Go to 3a for the next processor. If there are no more processors, the problem is solved. No. Go to 3e. 3e. Power the processor with an isolated power supply. Do not let the processor touch the chassis of the car. Has the noise gone? Yes. The processor’s power supply in not sufficiently isolated from its audio circuitry. Either replace it or consider the permanent installation of an isolated power supply (1:1 DC/DC converter). This type of device provides a permanent power source that is well isolated from the car's chassis. Go to 3a for the next processor. If there are no more processors, the problem is solved. No. Go to 3f. 3f. Physically separate the processor and the isolated power supply from the rest of the system by many metres. Use long signal cables. Has the noise gone? Yes. Something is seriously wrong with either the processor or your install/test procedures. Please repeat this level from the beginning. No. Change Processor -- this one has design problems. Go back to 3a for the new processor. Step 4. Check the Vehicle The suspect car's charging and electrical systems can be checked by using the previously installed sound system in a "known quiet" car. 4a. Connect jumper cables between the batteries of the two vehicles and start the engine of the suspect car. Turn on the headlights on the suspect car and listen to the stereo on the "known quiet" car. Is there now noise in the quiet car’s system? Yes. Have a qualified auto electrician check out the car’s charging system. No. The suspect car's alternator and charging system is now proven to be quiet. The problem must lie in the car stereo installation -- not in the vehicle.

The new MAX, much like the new IDQ that's in the works, are new designs. Eric did not release rights to produce a new line, so they're doing their best to improve on the previous design's flaws (such as miniscule tolerance between the coil and the magnet that led to notorious shifted pole and rub problems). Be on the lookout for a shallow IDQ soon as well as that's what their current designer has been talking about working on. OP, based on the subs you're looking at, I feel you have a lot more research to be done. I see mainstream brand, mainstream brand, DD (still a mainstream brand IMO), and Sundown (which is also becoming a mainstream brand). You may think this is insignificant, but examining the big picture, that means that their production line has to ramp up to meet demand. Expect quality control to go along with it (as evidenced by stocks of X subs arriving to the US with unglued surrounds). Look to see what's really out there and I think you'll understand why we here at SSA have a slightly bitter taste in our mouth for when people address Sundown as being the superior choice when put against other competitors that we happen to use.

You won't find anyone with a coil to fit it. And they wouldn't be able to order just a few precision wouldn't do it as making a handful especially something this size in small quantities. For reference this coil cost me 75 bucks so if you add the typical 100-150 percent mark up you will be spending at least $150 on just the coil even if they could get their hands on a couple. Besides the fact you won't gain anything but looks as the typical parts being used don't offer anymore throw. My soft parts have been over 40mm outward with no physical damage. This has been confirmed with a klippel analyzer. Besides once you get past 30mm the motor starts running out of motor strength with spl coil. The daily coil offers about 55mm one way. But proper baskets and softparts are still at least a year away to utilize the full 55mm one way linear throw. spl coil has a 50mm winding length the spl has a 95mm lond winding length

Yeah rightI had a t3000 a while back and the birth sheet read 4100 wattsGreat. Do you even read on the forum? Birth sheet is wrong, that is not 1000w across the WHOLE power series line, and even if it were you can't hear the difference between posted and their birth sheet so who cares? And no, the birth sheet is not right.

To elaborate, no amp is "underrated." They're rated for very specific parameters. A better question would be what amps are capable of putting out clean, undistorted power over their rated parameters.

So its SSA or nothing? OP if those are you two choices go with the X-10".

Except when because Volvo is the answer

Because Race Car is always the answer

What is this packaging problem ? I've ordered several SSA subs (3 Xcon 15" and 1 Icon 15"). No problem at all, and they were not sent in those "hard wood packaging". My subs took the plane to Europe, from Las Vegas, then back to the Caribbeans in very good shape I tried USPS, Fedex, UPS,...with no issue. Customer service is amazing. They answer all my emails so fast, I wonder if they sleep or take some week-ends off ! I was talking about that with a friend last friday, while having a demo from his car (4 btl n2 15" on 2 Crescendo 3k5 : breath taking). I won't buy Fi subs anymore, because of their customer service, but my next sub will be an SSA Zcon without a doubt. This caraudio forum is the best I've found so far.

Helps when you have arguably the two best transducer engineers in the world in your corner. I can't take all the credit.

Quentin - props on your answers so far. More thorough than I've ever seen any manufacturer do and without any BS. Nice

Gotta love an honest answer, looking forward to doing business with DSS...

No, the rms rating isn't a thermal rating it is the recommended power for the driver to reach xmax in their recommended enclosure. The enclosure you need to be well over 3 cubic feet tuned extremely low to hit xmax with half power. I'd love to make more money off you with the 4 12's but I honestly think the 2 15's would be better in your situation.

Young skywalker you make judgements very incorrectly. The Iphone is manufactured not by a Chinese company but by Apple in China. There is a huge difference between owning a plant and controlling your own quality and farming out labor. HUGE. And yes, I've been in both sorts of plants. One makes me want to puke, the other almost feels like it is here. You should highly discern where things are manufactured. Of course, this doesn't actually address the biggest difference either. Most Chinese manufactured things in this domain are parts bin specials. Low volume manufacturing does NOT allow for design, but only slapping together off the shelf components that aren't optimized for anything. When things are manufactured here and designed here that isn't usually the case. Of course you can have the same, but when a manufacturer actually employs engineering you can end up with a product that will do what it was designed to do, versus a product that does what it is slapped together to do.

Honestly, I wouldn't recommend either, but then again, this is a SSA forum. 1K for a single 10" GCON or ICON would probably suit you better. Spec-wise the ICON and X aren't that far off from each other.

So its SSA or nothing? OP if those are you two choices go with the X-10". Not that it's SSA or nothing, but I wouldn't recommend either of those subwoofers when you have a similarly-priced option that will perform better on the power he has to give over a broader range of music.

You know you can turn your phone the other way