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Here we go, as I give the Sundown Audio SD-2 8" subwoofer the once over. This will be a three part series starting with pics and notes regarding shipping and construction. Secondly will be an install overview with pics. Lastly, I'll wrap things up with a listening review. Lets start off with some pics: How they arrive. Out of the box, and striking a pose. A little shout out. And lastly some interesting angles. Each sub come in double boxed in an exceptional styrofoam container. The sub is well supported and ready for the worst of shipping mishandling. A+ The woofer is well build. All glue joints are strong with a proper and complete bond. I took a closer look at the surround to basket bond. The surround has mounting hole clearance cuts in the surround leaving a narrow land to bond with the basket. At all these points the bond is complete and as strong as the rest of the surround. No worries of box pressure blowing out and weakening the surround at these points. Spider to basket joint is good, neck joint looked good as well. No signs of glue whitening on any glue joints. A+

budget and the DD Z don't even belong in the same sentence, and if you already have your mind made up then why are you asking?

ZED Audio Draconia-II

Yeah good decision on not mixing them. Just get a 15 or an 18 and port it, I'm sure that you'll be happy with that.

Before I get into how the subs did, allow me share what it took to get there. The test vehicle is a 1994 Oldsmobile Cutlass Cierra. A trunk car, notorious for swallowing bass. To give the SD-2s a fighting chance I removed the rear seat back. On top of that. I opted to fire the subs towards the rear after a few listening test. These are the tracks that I used to evaluate the SD-2 8 performance. Focal Demo Disk 1 "Sweet Sixteen" by Junior Wells "Wishing Well" by Michael Ruff "Improvisation" by Ron Tutt "Spanish Harlem" by Rebecca Pidgeon "Grandma's Hands" by Livingston Taylor These tracks have good kick drum bottom end and/or defined bass guitar strums. The subs were able to blend well and provide the bottom end presence to complete the listening experience. In "Sweet Sixteen" both kick drum and bass guitar are well reproduced. The attack in "Improvisation" when the snare and kick are hit simultaneously was precise and tactile. No excess bloat. Up next. IASCA SQ Reference CD "I Will Find You There" by Michael Ruff "Too Close" by Clair Marlo This is another pair of tracks suited to the subwoofer's expertise, tight kicks and smooth bass guitar beats. The subs had no problem delievering the low end of the kick drum while the bass guitar played in "I Will Find You There". I enjoyed singling out the bass guitar in "Too Close". Again, clean clear bass. And now for something a little different. Tracy Chapman album New Beginnings This was a fun album to listen to. The kicks are more about the low end in this album. The bass guitar is also more pronounced. I find the low end to contrast the highs of this album, making it a good canidate for evaluating performance. The subs kept up with the music never drawing attention to themselves. It was a real treat to enjoy the music through these subs. Notable tracks, the beginning of "Heaven's Here On Earth" The steady kick drums are reproduced with fullness and volume without having to crank up the volume. Now I take the subs out of their element and see how they do out in the street. Kendrick Lamar album Good Kid, m.A.A.d. City "m.A.A.d City" "Swimming Pools (Drank)" "m.A.A.d City" is the track I used to demo the SPL capabilities of my Suburban, read 149db on the Termlab. It starts off with about 20 sec voice intro recorded out of phase, building suspense before the bass note comes in. A single tone in the 30-40hz for 10 seconds. It's quite the experience in my suburban. How did the eights fair? They held it together. The cones were a wanging. It's asking alot for a pair of eights to hammer out the lows, even more so for a pair of eights in a sealed box. They put out clean clear bass. "Swimming Pools" doesnt come on as strong as "m.A.A.d City", it does have a good combination of high frequency mid-bass punches with mixed in low bass beats. The subs had no problem keeping up. The bass was defined and transitioned with frequency changes seamlessly. Listening levels were moderate to slightly elevated for all the tracks. Once levels reached significantly elevated levels performance was compromised noted by distinct chance in tone. The distortion level of this sub is eerily low. I found myself cutting out the sub level to verify they were playing at times. Listening to the Kendrick Lamar album was eerie as well. At one point I was watching the cones wanging like no other, feeling the bass, but only hearing a rear body panel rattle. Talk about low distortion. This is a fun little sub to play with. For a pair I would recommend hatchback and small suv installs. Trunk cars would require a more elaborate rear deck install. For my personal install I'd opt for a quartet of these subs. Clean and clear bass like this is hard to come by. A+ for the Sundown Audio SD-2 eight.

I don't think it's possible to describe beaming in subjective "sounds like" terms. It's also going to "sound" different depending on the severity of the beaming (i.e. how far off-axis you are from the speaker) and the frequency range over which it's occurring (midrange, treble, etc). Every speaker will begin beaming at some point, from subwoofers to tweeters. Beaming is basically a reduction in the amplitude of high frequency off-axis response of the speaker compared to the on-axis frequency response. If you were walking around a single speaker playing full range you would notice the high frequencies start to taper off as you walked from on-axis to off-axis. The higher frequencies wouldn't be as loud off-axis compared to on-axis. Where the driver begins to beam depends on the diameter of the speaker. A larger speaker will begin to beam lower in frequency than a smaller speaker. Beaming can create several potential problems....undesirable frequency response at the listening position from the direct sound from the speaker due to the "dip" or "hole" created by the beaming, uneven frequency response between the left-side and right-side speakers since you generally don't sit at the same degrees off-axis from both speakers, and larger deviations in direct vs reflected sound at the listening position. All of this cause issues with frequency response and imaging causing things to simply sound wrong. You might not be able to point a finger at it and say "Ah ha, that sounds like beaming!". But if the problem is in the midrange (for example) then the midrange frequencies might sound wrong or off compared to the rest of the bandwidth and the imaging will be skewed or scattered, for example. FWIW, I really like Andy Wehmeyer's philosophy behind designing a car audio system. He didn't invent the idea, but he's one of the bigger proponents and has spent a significant amount of time explaining it from an acoustics stand point. Pretty simple really. Cross all of the drivers within their piston range to avoid beaming, wave guide the tweeter (since you can't avoid beaming) to create a smooth on- to off-axis transistion, and don't mount the driver's right next to reflective surfaces (i.e. avoid A-pillar or top of the dash installations). Certainly it's possible to break the rules and create a system that sounds subjectively good without taking all of this advice....but it provides a good foundation to start from if you keep these things in mind.

How to start this off????? Well, I got this way cool Fi Car Audio 10" Q. Here are some pics of how it arrived to me. Waiting at the doorstep. Opening up the box. Out of the box and on to the driveway for some pics. Side profile shot. Get a load of that motor. O_o A word from the people who made this possible. The plan will be for a simple ported box with an aero-port. I'll input all the manufacturers parameters and box specs into Hornresp and see what it chugs out. To follow up, I'll use a Dayton Audio Test System (D.A.T.S.) formerly know as the Woofer Tester, to verify the impedance curve and box tuning. If all goes well, I'll have a nice bumping system. Worst case, I get flamed to death on the interwebs. Stay tuned.

lol you did not follow my point. the Z IS FAR FROM A BUDGET sub and this is going to sound rude but its true... you are going to blow what ever sub you get regaurdless untill you stop and learn.. pay attention and stop what is blowing your subs... wait for it..... YOU. you are blowing your subs.. your lack of knowledge is hurting you . i run 1500 RMS subs on a 7K ... .. i can do that because i understand what i am doing, i have build a box thast helps me do that , and i have the electrical back bone to support what i do.. you are failing on multiple points .. in short.... you can get a 3000 watt sub if you want.. but its not going to fix your issue.. only prolong your failure. and BTW. the Zcon will take 5K on music in the right hands.

How are they basically the same thing? The evil has a 4" coil, the DP has a 3" coil. The evil is 3250 rms, the DP is 1500 rms. They have different suspension. And much, much, much more different characteristics. Can you please add punctuation.

I bet you say that to all the sailors buttercup.

Not sure on the exact design part douglas, but you are in good hands with Alton HE KNOWS HIS SHIT. He will take care of you, just work with him and communicate. I couldn't be any happier with the box he designed for me for my 15 xcons.

Going to 25" on the depth helps, but it's still not near perfect and even at 32" doesn't quite get to what I'd consider using myself. However, I know I'm not using near optimal port area for my Q's and don't suffer any ill effects that cause issues for our listening habits. Output may suffer, there is probably port compression present, and I'm sure it makes audible noise when the subs are pushed hard, but it's not easily noticed. However the pair are rarely pushed to the limit as the output is more than enough for our regular listening habits. When we do decide to push them hard the ensuing results border on the impossible to detect any issues with response as trim panels, body panels, and everything else that can move becomes a cacophony of noise accompanying bass too loud to listen to properly in the first place. If anyone has ears sensitive enough to hear the negative effects of what the smaller than optimal port does to the response of those subs, it wouldn't be that sensitive for long. My point is, I made the decision to live with the results of having my enclosure designed the way it is and as yet I'm not unhappy with the results and I don't think you'd have any real issues with what can be designed inside those dimensions (including the 25" depth) that would negatively impact your listening pleasure from the subs. If a person can give up all the necessary space for a perfectly optimal enclosure, then by all means do so, otherwise this hobby is all about compromise and more times than not the compromise is easily lived with for most people.

I loved all the setups I've heared with Xcons. But if you already have the 2 W6, it would be cheaper to just build a good ported box for them. If you want to change your system, you could always sell the W6 witht the new box easily. Big advantage of running JL in the USA : people know them and love them ! If I had the choice I would take the Xcon for sure ! More power, more output, ...etc RAM design and DC creation ( is it the right name ?) sell box designs. They are members here. Try to contact them before you build anything. Designs are cheap and you know you won't mess anything.

Undo your RCA grounds from the head unit, find a new location to ground your receiver and that may take care of the popping and feedback noise. Try to find a new location to ground your amplifiers too. Make sure they are clean, solid, and well connected. That could possibly cure all of your issues. Oh yeah, buy a new battery as mentioned as well.

Had one of my better weekends. Got to hang out with Neal and Ronda, went to an O's game with friends (they won BTW), got to rest a little Sunday and was still up to date on most all SSA things. Just wasn't able to make it to the gym or cut the grass at the house I am trying to sell, oh well try again this weekend coming.

Find a used Zed then. It is superior to the other two.

11-1/8"

For ultimate sound quality For very very good sound quality For good sound quality all good, but the price reflects the sound quality in the end. None of those amps will have better SQ than the other two.

The Sundown is worth the extra money IMO.

Damnit, shit like this doesn't help

Please stop telling people about their gain settings and protecting their drivers. Not only is it completely technically wrong, but you are leading people into false security.

the BDCP's resale value is worth it in it's self. The BDCP's aren't some standard Korean board like the Crescendo is. It has a lot of great engineering and dev behind it. Even though I may run Crescendo I'd drop them in a second for RF

Nice internal bracing! That wall has serious authority.

ok ill copy and paste i just don't see how they lasted as long as they have, they are rated at 1500 watts so you throw 3300 watts at each? ok, then you say daily? and then to top it all all your telling me you have 6000 watts on 200 amp hours worth of battery? well so far you have defied the basic laws of car audio for 4 years shit, your a lucky man, makes me want to run out and get a pair if they take abuse like that!!!! honestly, you have been clipping those subs by playing with low voltage, and you have been throwing tons of power at them... sounds to be like the glue that holds the coils to the former finaly baked and let loose.

Okay I agree with most of what has been said. First port the w6's, if you still aren't happy get an XCON 18. If you don't plan on adding a lot more power, the 18 should be just about as loud and save you ~400 dollars. If you plan on adding power then definitely get the 15's

Sorry, damn phone got the best of me. If I were you, I'd build a new vented enlcosure for the W6s before buying new drivers.

its a yukon....STICK two 18's in the back you'll be set for 20years down the road with the X's wanging in the back!

With that amp consider one sub. If money is not a problem then get 2 15's and a bigger amp or get one 18 with a better amp. (budget dependent) Remember, stepping up means upgrade in electrical too, so it's all about budget.

Two 15s should be louder. Get dual 1s if your running 1 ohm

Drinking it up in Baltimore with a local we all know.

This is one of those shit happens situations. Fi can't control Fedex. But it'll get fixed, don't worry about that. You shouldn't end up having to pay anything. If you need to send it back to Fi I believe they email you a shipping label to use. Relax and wait for a response from Fi.

There are going to be a few factors other than replacing wire and an alternator to know why you're dimming. I'm sure giving this information would help out. This might be more extensive to some, but it'll help to answer the question. 1) The amp you use 2) The way the amp's gain is set 3) How are the sub(s) wired and to what ohm load 4) What batteries do you use and the amount if applicable 5) Was the alternator an upgrade or exact replacement. (helps to know amperage) 6) How well is your ground? 7) Are you grounded to the front battery or chassis? (If chassis did you sand the contact spot?)

Here is a little vid of the subs in action. http://youtu.be/tIsBgOBCfxQ

This is my favorite part, the installation. There is no better feeling than the feeling of accomplishment. Being involve and using your hands, that is why I DIY. This sub allows for that feeling of accomplishment without the need for a complex build. A simple sealed box yields results here. This is what I built. It so happened I already had a sealed box for a pair of eights. All I had to do was adjust the woofer mounting hole size and I was in business. Here is a side by side of what came out of the box versus what went in. Here is some info on the box. A little test fit before the final install into the box. Subs in a box. I dig the squished together look. Here is the final install. Subs are firing towards the back. Power comes via a Bazooka MGA-1100. Subs are wiring down to 1 ohm, amp power output is 750 at 1 ohm. Crossover point is 80Hz at 18db/oct. The installation was fun and easy. As an added plus, I didn't have to call anybody to help me lift the box in place. The simplicity of the install is perfect for the beginner. The small box requirements are great for the advanced installer, opening up endless locations to squeeze in, this little "big" woofer.

Thats the most insane flex i ever seen btw

if u did that next 2 some people who are not car audio heads they might think u got the voodoo magiks

haven't been on SSA in a while but this is cool topic! My weekend was awesome PARTY PARTY lol

YOu HAVE to watch this tim. ITs your car!!

Some gross generalizations here but IMO there isn't a use for a 6.5" pro audio driver in car audio except, for example, as a midrange in a high efficiency 3-way such as with horns. For 8" they generally have a little more snap to them in the upper midbass with the trade-off being significantly reduced low frequency extension/output. They also generally play a little higher than a normal home/car audio 8" driver since in pro audio an 8" is really more of a midrange...so the additional high frequency extension may be needed/desired. Well designed PA drivers still offer low distortion performance, so that could be a consideration. If you are talking about the guys who run a shit ton of PA speakers with bullet tweeters, then it's simply because they are 'tards.

It's like you didn't even read my posts When using multiple drivers the center-to-center distance should ideally be no more than one wavelength of the highest frequency played by the drivers. Or, to put it another way, the drivers should ideally be crossed at a frequency with a wavelength no more than their center-to-center distance of the drivers. Since the center-to-center distance is going to include the diameter of the basket but the beaming frequency does not, then two drivers will actually require a lower crossover frequency than a single driver of the same "stated" diameter. I.E. a 7" driver might only have a ~6" cone, but the center-to-center distance between two 7" drivers would be ~7" assuming they were placed directly next to each other with baskets touching. If they were spaced 1" apart then the center-to-center distance increases to 8" and they would require an even lower crossover point (ideally). These rules aren't hard-n-fast and there is some leeway, but they are good starting points to figure out approximately where things might start to go haywire.

Before even starting with a mid you need to determine potential mounting locations. EVERYTHING is a compromise, no need to add more by deciding things without the background. Oh, and give up on keeping up with an 18". No way, no how that is going to happen in the midbass realm. Going to have a gap, no way around that if you are comparing to full tilt levels. Of course if you are like most other bassheads "keeping up" means hearing the words. In that case, it's easy.

Beaming will occur when the frequency wavelength is less than or equal to the diameter of the cone. Make sure your units are the same: wavelength(cm) = 34029 (cm) / frequency (hz), so: Beaming Frequency (hz) = 34029 (cm) / diameter from Sd in cm Sd being T/S value for surface area of cone. IE: Exodus ex-anarchy driver: Sd: 131cm^2, area circle = pi*radius^2, so squareroot(131/pi)=radius=6.457, radius*2=diameter, 6.457*2=12.9cm 34029 / 12.9 = 2638hz So this driver, or any other driver with the Sd in the same realm would start to beam around 2638hz. If you know the cone diameter in inches then you could also do 13397 / diameter(in). Ultimately you'd want to be using measurements for the cone, and not the overall diameter of the driver. IE: Exodus ex-anarchy driver cone diameter = ~5", and OD is ~7" 13397/5=2679hz, 13397/7=1913hz That's a significant difference. ------------------------------------------------------------------- So a rudimentary answer to 8" mid and 6.5" mid would be: 8" OD, so let's say the cone diameter is 7", 13397/7 = 1913hz 6.5" OD, ~5.5", 13397/5.5 = 2435hz

That's one of the shittiest installs I've seen--thanks for sharing.

A good front stage is a just as much a result of proper installation and tuning as it is the speaker selection. Everyone has specific goals, and those goals will determine most of how to go about selecting speakers and installing/tuning the system. It's a really big topic, so specific questions will be easier to answer as literally an entire book could be written on how to select, install and tune a good front stage. As others have said if this is your first foray into active a 2-way is recommended. What are you using for processing? Personally I prefer to choose a mid first, then decide on a tweeter to mate with it. Due to people's usual preferences and the compromises involved I personally feel it's better to find a mid that matches your goals (midbass performance, low frequency extension, midrange performance, etc) and then find a tweeter that plays low enough to mate with the mid rather than limit your mid choices based on the tweeter.

If this is your first time going active starting with a two way is HIGHLY recommended. Some of the information and questions you're asking can be answered in Mike Martel's thread about a new front stage. I've not had the fun of tackling an active front stage yet, but I understand that you're supposed to pick the mid first, then pick the tweeter based on the mid's higher frequency limitations and other such things.

Rockford!! nice vs thread where people actually pick 1 of the OP

i'd dd1 the amp with a 0 db track and make sure bass boost is off on your amp and stereo. make sure its getting CLEAN power at all times