need URGENT help with remote turn on/amp problems

[toolskizm 0]

I definitely know I need to narrow it down. If I could get a friend's amp and try it out would be really nice. As that would determine if it is for sure the amp or not. I do know for a fact there is something wrong with the amp. I know for a fact the RCA's are messed up on the board, just no one can seem to find where.

The only problem I have with removing the isolator is when I first had my system the 2 JL amps 500/1 and 450/4 my car would continuously die. I mean, I would not listen to the system with the car off-only with the car on and usually driving. I would come out to my car after it sitting for maybe a day and my car wouldn't start. This was prior to Car Toys installing my isolator. Now that they installed it, I never have that trouble. But, I'm just not sure how that would work with the huge Fosgate. Granted, I can try it, but I'm not sure that I'm seeing it being the isolator.

At idle without the system on, I get a 14.4 voltage in the front, 14.3 in the back. I don't know, I just need to get another amplifier in the car to make sure if it's the amp or the car wiring/voltage/alternator/whatever the hell else it might be.

Edited October 20, 2007 by toolskizm

[SouthPole1989 0]

well the isolator could be making he making the .1 difference. but you have a short somewhere and the isolator is just a band aid fix.

[mrray13 30]

ok, to clarify, you stated, the jl works when the REMOTE TURN ON wire is hooked directly to the rear yellow top, correct?

if that's correct, your chasing the wrong problem by looking at your 4g and isolator and all that's inbetween. while i'll agree that the isolator is useless, that you need a bigger fuse on the rf side, two runs of 4g is plenty for your system. you need to do the big 3 and look into an alternator, but if what i stated above is true, none of that will fix your problem.

if what i stated is the problem, the fix is within the h/u and the path of the remote wire as it sounds like there isn't enough amperage, plenty of voltage it seems, to keep both amps on. when you installed the relay, how and where was it installed? did you try the 12g wire on the relay? are you using the factory wiring harness ground for the h/u? upgrading that might help.

let me know how far off base i am. it's early here, and i jsut got out of bed, but i'm sure i read your original post right.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[sqguy 0]

Is 4ga enough for the JL alone? Maybe he could run the JL on its own 4ga to the front for more voltage with no isolator...assuming the sub amp will take more power than the JL right? Then run the other 4ga or a new larger cable/whatever to the rear battery and sub amp with the isolator and all. (Or run a 3rd 4ga so you had 1 to the JL and 2 for the subs/battery?)

If you are running low on voltage with the car on I don't think it will matter what you do, you just need more alternator to keep up. More batteries will run it longer, but if you keep it hammering you will still run out of power when you use up the batteries if you don't take breaks for it to charge back up. Its like a battery is worth X number songs then it dies if your alternator is not up to the load; you just get more songs with more batteries. So, if you only crank it for say three songs at a time and it dies after 2-2.5 songs then another battery will fix you fine. If you play more than 4 songs get the alternator.

What does the voltage do on the front battery? If it drops then HU voltage drops too, but you know the isolator is not restricting power I guess. I would not think the amp reads its voltage requirements off the trigger anyway but don't know. Then alternator sounds like the answer.

Yeah there could be something wrong with the amp. I've had amps that shut off on all different kinds of voltages but that one sounds pretty high. Another thing is many DVOM do not react that fast if you are using one, so it is possible your voltage is dropping more than it shows for an instant even though you have the yellow top. Also one battery could be weak and that would hurt performance. When the batteries get low the quick drops will be greater as well, they don't have any reserve then. Just trying to help with some ideas.

[Parker 2]

I definitely know I need to narrow it down. If I could get a friend's amp and try it out would be really nice. As that would determine if it is for sure the amp or not. I do know for a fact there is something wrong with the amp. I know for a fact the RCA's are messed up on the board, just no one can seem to find where.

The only problem I have with removing the isolator is when I first had my system the 2 JL amps 500/1 and 450/4 my car would continuously die. I mean, I would not listen to the system with the car off-only with the car on and usually driving. I would come out to my car after it sitting for maybe a day and my car wouldn't start. This was prior to Car Toys installing my isolator. Now that they installed it, I never have that trouble. But, I'm just not sure how that would work with the huge Fosgate. Granted, I can try it, but I'm not sure that I'm seeing it being the isolator.

At idle without the system on, I get a 14.4 voltage in the front, 14.3 in the back. I don't know, I just need to get another amplifier in the car to make sure if it's the amp or the car wiring/voltage/alternator/whatever the hell else it might be.

Double check your batteries, some will still show 12 V even discharged. you might have a bad cell in one of your batteries causing electrical issues. If u have a wal mart in your area they'll run a test on them for free.

[mrray13 30]

i just reread his original post....

IT'S NOT IN HIS 4G RUNS, NOR HIS BATTERIES, NOR HIS ISOLATOR. IT'S HIS REMOTE TURN ON THAT'S THE ISSUE. PLEASE REREAD HIS ORIGINAL POST.

I can unhook the remote turn on from the Fosgate amp and the JL amp will work perfect. If I connect back, the JL amps shuts down. Also, if I hook the JL amp directly to the Yellow Top, it will work. That's the JL remote turn on to Yellow Top, Fosgate Remote to the head unit.

there, i've simplified it for everyone, i've quoted his original text. now, address his problem. i'll guarantee it's not in the dual run of 4g, nor the isolator.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[toolskizm 0]

hey guys, I haven't been on here in a while kuz frankly, getting my system to run right is kinda just pissin me off and last weekend, I pretty much didn't care and just got drunk instead. I've never had this problem before in all the systems I've had.

So anyway here is what i DID try this past weekend even though I was in "not care mode"

1) unhooked the isolator and tried with both batteries, yellow top piggybacked....amp still shut off

2) unhooked yellow top and tried with just the front batt....still same problem

3)tried with yellow top and front batt piggybacked and a JBL...still the JBL cut off

so in conclusion with those tests...the isolator is not the cause, the amp isn't, and the yellow top is fine? im guessing on that one

Now, to clarify. I USED to have the remote wire going from the head unit, it split at the amps

I installed a simple switch and am now running the remote wire from the yellow top, and yes I've tried bigger wire.

Also, the gain is not up much at all...I would say 1/4 at most on the RF. If I turn it down to where it's almost off...the system will work. Otherwise, the JL will even cut out at high voltage. As for amperage...I'm not sure.

I'm pretty certain it's the alternator, though I find it's really sensitive to what's going on. I mean, the amp cutting out at 13 volts just seems strange, but I guess if the amperage is too low it really doesn't matter. It still puzzles me why the JL would work better if ONLY the remote wire is connected directly to the yellow top. But not when it's ran through a switch but STILL from the yellow top. Idk, I find that odd...maybe I just don't understand the physics of it though.

So my guess is it is in fact the alternator. I wanted to make sure this is the case before I threw another 300$+ on the system and that not be teh problem. So anyhow, thank you for all the input, and unless you guys have anything else to suggest, I'm going to go ahead and get the Iraggi alt.

[SouthPole1989 0]

have you tried to recharge the bats via a battery charger since you think it is your alt

[toolskizm 0]

here's this if needed...again my thoughts are alt, but ne way

[toolskizm 0]

have you tried to recharge the bats via a battery charger since you think it is your alt

Sorry, didn't see you replied. No I haven't. Like you mean hook em up and try to play the system?

[SouthPole1989 0]

no just hook it up so the batteries are as close to 100% as possable.

[mrray13 30]

Now, to clarify. I USED to have the remote wire going from the head unit, it split at the amps

I installed a simple switch and am now running the remote wire from the yellow top, and yes I've tried bigger wire.

Also, the gain is not up much at all...I would say 1/4 at most on the RF. If I turn it down to where it's almost off...the system will work. Otherwise, the JL will even cut out at high voltage. As for amperage...I'm not sure.

ok, i'll try this one more time and then you can spend your money on an alternator that isn't going to solve the problem.

if it's happening because of the remote wire, then it's due to the fact your HEADUNIT can't support both the jl and the much larger then the old sub amp you had rockford. the rockford is just taking too much of the current at higher volumes then the last amp. you need to a single strand of 12g remote wire to a relay in back by the yellow top. then you need to wire the yellow top to the relay using 10g and then split your turn on leads from the relay to teh amps, again using 12g. the extra current provided by the yellow top should allow the amps to stay on at full tilt.

i'll try and dig up a diagram to help explain it.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[mrray13 30]

you're going to connect pin 30 to the positive post of the yellowtop with 10g, pin 85 with 10g to the negative post. pin 86 will be 12g coming from your headunit and pin 87 will be a pair of 12g wires, one going to each amp. 87a is not used.

that's how ya do it. be sure to get a large enough relay to support the current draw of the rf and the jl. and that should fix your problem.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[toolskizm 0]

I'm not sure if you got that. Or maybe I'm not understanding your reply and the reasoning. But the remote turn on is not going through the HU at all now. It's going straight from the yellow top to a switch then back to the amps. The turn on for the headunit is connected through the electrical and going to the front battery.

If I misunderstood, I apologize, but it seemed like you might have missed that. That diagram I drew shows the switch which goes to the front the car. It isn't a fused switch though.

The switch is totally independent of the HU...so I'm not seeing how that would be the HU. I avoided using the HU just for that reason..

[mrray13 30]

when you first posted this problem, both amps were turned on by the h/u. when you disconnected the jl and ran it direct to the battery, the issue was fixed. hence, my very first reply...the issue lies in the fact your h/u, when both amps are hooked up to it, can't supply enough turn on current for both amps. you have since bypassed the issue with your rememdy.

so, that leaves you a couple of choices...

1) keep your system as it is, as it's working.

2)spend $300 on an alternator,hook yoru turn on wires back up to your h/u and be right back where you were

3)spend $300 on an alternator, hook your turn on wire back up to the h/u WITH the relay in line as posted above and fix all of your issues.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[toolskizm 0]

when you first posted this problem, both amps were turned on by the h/u. when you disconnected the jl and ran it direct to the battery, the issue was fixed. hence, my very first reply...the issue lies in the fact your h/u, when both amps are hooked up to it, can't supply enough turn on current for both amps. you have since bypassed the issue with your rememdy.

so, that leaves you a couple of choices...

1) keep your system as it is, as it's working.

2)spend $300 on an alternator,hook yoru turn on wires back up to your h/u and be right back where you were

3)spend $300 on an alternator, hook your turn on wire back up to the h/u WITH the relay in line as posted above and fix all of your issues.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

mhm but the way my system is set up now did NOT fix the issue. I thought it would, but I did it and it does the same exact thing as when it was hooked to the HU. Idk, bottom line is I need an alt ne way. So I'll order that soon. But thanks for all the input guys.

[mrray13 30]

when you first posted this problem, both amps were turned on by the h/u. when you disconnected the jl and ran it direct to the battery, the issue was fixed. hence, my very first reply...the issue lies in the fact your h/u, when both amps are hooked up to it, can't supply enough turn on current for both amps. you have since bypassed the issue with your rememdy.

so, that leaves you a couple of choices...

1) keep your system as it is, as it's working.

2)spend $300 on an alternator,hook yoru turn on wires back up to your h/u and be right back where you were

3)spend $300 on an alternator, hook your turn on wire back up to the h/u WITH the relay in line as posted above and fix all of your issues.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

mhm but the way my system is set up now did NOT fix the issue. I thought it would, but I did it and it does the same exact thing as when it was hooked to the HU. Idk, bottom line is I need an alt ne way. So I'll order that soon. But thanks for all the input guys.

ok, you still have the same problem? (and yeah, the alternator would be a great add regardless) let me look at your diagram, i honestly didn't look at it and see what you have going on.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[mrray13 30]

why is the h/u wired to the isolater?

some things to change/try..

1) up the fuses to at least 150 each. the rf amp itself should easily tap 200 amps of draw. i'd recommend 200s.

2) get the h/u off the isolator and back to direct on the front battery. (if it's truley wired off the isolator)

3) undo your daisychain of the turnon leads. don't run a single lead to the rf and then go from the rf to the jl. run two seperate leads from your switch, or better yet, lose the switch and run the turn on's the way i posted above off your hu, a relay and your YT. DON'T daisy chain it from one amp to the other. make sure you are using a quality relay and it's rated for the draw. a 30 amp relay will probably work.

see if that helps.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[toolskizm 0]

why is the h/u wired to the isolater?

some things to change/try..

1) up the fuses to at least 150 each. the rf amp itself should easily tap 200 amps of draw. i'd recommend 200s.

2) get the h/u off the isolator and back to direct on the front battery. (if it's truley wired off the isolator)

3) undo your daisychain of the turnon leads. don't run a single lead to the rf and then go from the rf to the jl. run two seperate leads from your switch, or better yet, lose the switch and run the turn on's the way i posted above off your hu, a relay and your YT. DON'T daisy chain it from one amp to the other. make sure you are using a quality relay and it's rated for the draw. a 30 amp relay will probably work.

see if that helps.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

HU wired off isolator is CarToys grade A installation...lol will never go there again.

I'll have to order some more fuses. I may try rewiring the switch today.

[mrray13 30]

get that h/u off the isolator. that might be the whole damn issue, lol. i've never heard of such a thing.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[toolskizm 0]

get that h/u off the isolator. that might be the whole damn issue, lol. i've never heard of such a thing.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

just out of curiosity, is there an explanation for a popping sound when I turn the amps on and off? I get a pop when my subs turn on...

[mrray13 30]

can be a turn on issue, and by being direct to battery via switch, might be the problem. also sometimes caused by being overgained, turning the gain down a bit might solve it. and i've also seen it caused by bad ground. make sure your grounds are solid. if none of that works, could be an amp issue.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[toolskizm 0]

ya'll prob tired of this thread...so am I trust me lol. Anyway couple weeks ago I went home to install my new alternator. Got it installed (which is a BITCH in a front wheel drive Acura) and I got a new Yellow Top as it seemed it was screwed up. Did some rewiring like suggested....still didn't work.

Now I was thinking...hmm maybe for some weird reason I'm losing power through the wire going from the back the car to the front. Either that or maybe I have a short in the remote wire. So, to eliminate that as a possibility, I cut some wire about a foot long. Wired it to the new Yellow Top, to both amps, and the remote (30A) switch (didn't daisy chain either). Did it and something very very strange happened...The Rockford Fosgate T20001BD went into protect mode at high volumes. This never happened before. Now in the manual it says the only reason for this is voltage drop...which it was NOT doing (I just put a new alt and battery in, and I could see the voltage) OR too low ohm level, which my subs are wired right. So this lead me to think the Fosgate is messed up??

I'm no amp expert at all, but there's a couple reasons I think this now. One, the system NEVER acted like this before this amp, even before I didn't change anything...reason I started changing stuff was kuz it wouldn't work AFTER I put the amp in. Two, the remote bass knob doesn't work on the amp and the Fosgate is a refurb. Three, I tried a Crossfire 1000 on my system a couple days ago and it worked perfect. I know it's only 1000 watts, but it's best I could find to see.

So does it sound possible that maybe the Fosgate is messed up...maybe not regulating itself somehow?? I mean, I don't know if this is possible, but ever since the amp was put in my car I've been having problems. It is a refurb...and the remote bass knob light comes on, but never works...which I find kinda odd.

Edit: I also have that weird popping sound coming from my subs, which I never had before this amp.

I forgot to mention, I also upgraded to two 200A fuses as opposed to the 150A's I had..

Edited December 3, 2007 by toolskizm